Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional coming down from the ledge

Yes, yes, and yes. All of the above. One of the trickiest parts of this is that it might as well be a case of the blind leading the blind. I have done ALL of my learning without knowing how to do these things--and choosing subject areas in which sudden bursts of intellectual energy were effective. Good thing, too, because that was the only tool I had. It has greatly limited my career success. I hated teaching because of the heavy organizational load and never feeling like I had it together--this despite getting a lot of feedback about being quite talented at working with the children. I learn like my son: through obsession and osmosis. It is hard to teach a skill one does not posses herself. Like my son, I do much better when I am not required to multitask.


This made me LOL. I think (hope?) that I am not quite as catastrophic a thinker as I appear to be when I write. I will say this: there is no doubt that much of my panicky thinking is driven by my eldest son's situation (mental illness). And *he* was quite an exceptional student all the way through high school, who required no support at home--self-motivated and driven. Clearly, this is something that needs to be worked on with my own therapist.


Here is the pickle: my gut feeling is that if DS could just get a handle on the social behaviors, the rest of it would not be so difficult. For one, I think the teachers expect gifted students to be a bit flaky, organizationally. Secondly, I think they would be more tolerant and supportive of the EF stuff if they liked him. That was certainly the case in elementary school. The reason I say it's a pickle is because the most off-putting behaviors seem to only occur in the context of the classroom, when he is with his peers. Of course, I do correct him at home when he is blunt and insensitive--but it doesn't happen as often here, and I am far less likely to take offense. Not sure how to help him generalize "perspective taking."


This is how we do room-cleaning here, too. When I have the gumption. A lot of our home life involves my doing everything, just because there is so much to do and I don't have time to do it right. A DS "freakout" is nearly always withdrawal and avoidance. He doesn't melt down often--he goes internal, scowls, and ignores.

Okay, this has me rolling! You are arguing against an arranged marriage? hee hee

I like your ideas about doing some journaling type things re: being law clerk. I think for him it would be best to let him use photos and Presi type things. I can't imagine his being willing to essay about it--although he might, if I offered to type. He does NOT like expository writing one bit (but does enjoy creative writing) and the main objective in this "internship" is for him to experience some success in the presence of adults who really enjoy his company. That, and I can't wait to see him in his little lawyer outfit: he is very excited about a white button-down and a red tie. It was his first response to the proposal.

Yeah, we have anxiety in spades around here and I agree that is a huge component of it. I think when DS has to do something he doesn't enjoy and feels like drudgery, he becomes overwhelmed with anxiety. When he loves what he is doing, he is kind of a "jump and the net will appear" kind of person in his approach. It works with his personal projects but not with homework.

Ultimately, this was the deciding factor when I chose not to bail out of his program. ALL of the problems he was having were problems he will have at any middle school and were not related to the material being too difficult. He may have been somewhat stressed by having to (finally) learn something at school, and that may have been a piece of the puzzle. It was not the biggest one. He told me that he could not bear to go back to "regular school" because this was the first time he wasn't bored in class. I had some trouble with his getting poor grades--but have realized that is my issue. It is probably better to get Bs and Cs while actually learning than to skate through with As because it requires effort. I admit, though, I would prefer the As. His goal for next year is to improve to As and Bs and if he can get himself together, that is certainly possible.

Dh has 3 brothers and 2 parents and I think every single one of them has ADHD to some extent. First time I went to Dh's house, there was a motorcycle parked in the living room. All of them are extremely passive and laid back. The parents obviously care about their kids but have a very hands off approach, with "happieness" being the goal. Let's just say that of the 4 kids, one of them was living with them til he was practically 30. The other 3 got married young to wives who took control and whipped them into shape to the degree that that is possible. The one who lived there til almost 30? The wife was there too for the first few months of their marriage, and now they are in their mid-thirties, would like to start a family, but cannot because they are in low wage jobs. BIL was in college for years but kept flunking or dropping classes and finally dropped out. He tried again recently, same thing happened, apparently. He doesn't stick with anything. So in his case, the hands-off laid back approach did not work. He never got his act together. He has a gifted level IQ, was a national merit scholar (or semi-finalisit?), and never got a degree.

Also....right now your DS is at an age where you can force him to do things, but in another few years that may not necessarily be possible. So I would start now. I wouldn't go over the top and make him miserable or stressed, but find some balance. We are dealing with the same thing. DD really wants to keep taking piano lessons but the practice is like pulling teeth. She wants to be in an advanced math group but then doesn't want to do the homework. Same with DS. I don't want to be "pushy" but don't want them to to turn into sloppy, lazy adults either.

Well, yes. Apples, trees. If the kid had organized parents, he would probably be an organizing type. We are the same-- we organize what we must and many things slide.

However, you have learned some coping skills over the years that put you ahead of him regardless of the genetic inheritance. In a given situation (especially when you are about to do something for him) I like to ask myself-- what would it be useful for him to learn here? And then figure out and teach that useful thing.

It is increasingly important to my sanity that all family members be responsible for their own deals. We must all grow up. Even if it is gradual.


I was joking. Because most of us parents of kids like your DS have that precise image in their heads.

But I'm also serious about the time horizon. This stuff gets done if you work on it. Truly.


I am so glad you have therapeutic help in place, because this level of worry and care does wear a parent down. Good for you.


I do a lot of explaining. "When you say X, I think Y, and I get upset. If you would please say it this way, I wouldn't get my feelings hurt." "When you said X, it made teacher Q angry because she thought B...."

Over time, this does seem to take. He doesn't have the x-ray vision, but he can learn through instruction and practice, with debriefing as needed.

I think it's not a pickle-- it's just that you have now set a priority for what to work on first. All good.


I would treat that the same way as an externalizing freakout, though. Scowling/ignoring/rudeness is disallowed (because disrespectful). You are allowed to feel however you feel on the inside, but on the outside, you have to respect the person who is giving the instructions and follow them (if the person is in a role that demands it-- parent, teacher-- or if safety or morals are at stake).

We are fairly insistent parents, of the "fake it till you make it" school. You do not have to enjoy cleaning your room, but you have to do it when asked, without overt disrespect... over time, as the skill is mastered and becomes less of a big deal, the disrespect goes away anyhow.

Absolutely! The ideas of supporting him at home to build journaling/vocabulary/essay around this experience are to:
- leverage something he likes and is interested in to strengthen reflection and written expression skills (not to make the work burdensome or drain the fun out of what he is interested in)
- reflect on his internal experience of what he is interested in, about the internship
- become aware of what triggers a change, if at some point he may appear to lose interest in the internship (for example: social dilemma, sense of things piling up, boredom with repetition, too much (or too little) structure)
- if all goes well, have this positive experience to refer to, when he may, in future academic settings, be required to reflect and give written expression to his ideas and experiences.

Possibly he may have a penchant for dressing the part... playing a part... trying new roles... acting... has he participated in theatre experiences? Or might he like to?

Myself, I would not force the writing during the summer if he hates to write. If social skills are priority 1, I'd put my focus there, with lots of practice opportunity, debriefings where relevant, and just generally conversation about what's going on in these new experiences.

If I tried any kind of journaling plan with my DS12, it would devolve into a great deal of aggravation for all parties.

If your DS is willing, then go for it. But if not, and it's not priority one at this point, pick your battles.

The writing process includes a lot of cognitive function before the pencil is set to paper. Address the language and social skills issues, as these are a lot of what I see you mentioning with regards to his writing skill. Get the language skills in place independent of writing, and then work to translate.

DS and I will be working on "writing" this summer, but no words will go onto the page. It will be through working on flexible thinking, clarifying meaning and sequencing of thoughts. We'll do this mostly with Story Cubes and reading together.

We tried a writing class for my son last summer that didn't work out. He has similar writing problems as OP. We ended up requiring DS (15 at the time) to journal every day. He wasn't happy but I insisted. Rules were he needed to write at least a page. Could be about anything but writing the same lines over & over didn't count. I wasn't going to read it, no one was going to grade or evaluate it but he did need to SHOW it to me so I could see he was doing something. It did get easier with time but we did abandon it when schools started and I'm not sure how much it helped.

With a kid this age, it takes his buy-in, as well as a very clear understanding of what problems are to be worked on and how. We work on goals over the summer (we work on goals all the time, it feels like), but we try to make those goals harmonize with DS's projects and plans rather than making them an extra time commitment.

If writing is a problem area, I'd want to make sure it gets into the IEP as a priority during the school year (with lots of detail about what the present level of achievement is for different kinds of writing, and what skills are missing). Often taking family out of the equation of writing instruction helps.

I wouldn't attack writing while you are also prioritizing working on social perception, and while he's probably going to be working to accept new diagnostic information about himself. He will need some time to just be, and not to be pushed to remediate his deficits all at once. Nobody likes feeling like they are someone's project.