Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Grade skipped and facing middle school

DD10 made a mid year skip into 5th grade. She and her big sister will be attending middle school this Fall, and the AG teacher at the new school asked me to come in mid June to discuss DD10. I will be emailing her soon for the appointment, but I would like to make sure I have a complete list of items to discuss.
This is what is set up so far:
-504 for ADHD inattentive type accommodations (write in test booklet, typing vs. hand writing, preferential seating)
-Compacted math class (6th/7th/half of 8th done in one year)
-Advanced clustering for language arts

What should I be thinking about in terms of the 504 in middle school? DD has 5 teachers now. She will have 8 next year. DD's 3 current core teachers take pretty good care of her, and I see them every day. That won't be possible in middle school though I am signing up to volunteer so I can keep an eye on what goes on in the school. DD is doing so much better with organization and such - fingers crossed that this will continue.

When I spoke with the AG teacher a few weeks ago I asked her what the "advanced clustering" was all about. She said she wanted to talk to me during our June meeting about making sure DD would be put in the right LA level. Any advice about how to discuss this topic?

The kids are put in "teams". Those are the kids they will be with all year long. I am hoping that DD can be put with her best pal. I know that we will get some special treatment since DD is a grade skipped child. How else can I smooth her transition into middle school? I know that both DD11 and DD10 are excited about middle school - and anxious. We have rising middle school play dates set up for the summer so the kids can get to know one another ahead of time.
Am I missing anything?

I would say the thing that you will need to look out for is how the teachers will feel about her being grade skipped. I know this may sound strange, but when our DDs have been grade skipped we have run into teachers who are against accelerations and as a result tended to see DD (either one) as just another problem and blame all issues on their younger ages, rather than on the fact that their needs were still not being met. (This is for girls 5 years apart, so we are not even talking about the same schools or the same teachers - just the same reactions to them!)
One teacher said that she didn't feel comfortable with DD in her middle school social studies class because they discuss things that are too mature. I am still not sure what she was referring to, but that was her position and she treated DD like a baby, which did not go over very well at all.
It sounds like your school is much more on top of things than our schools ahve been though. Good luck.

I think with some teachers you will run into the following problem:
1. They don't think that ADHD is a real disorder
2. They will try to blame behaviors from the ADHD on her age rather than ADHD and gripe about how she was grade-skipped, if she displays these behaviors
3. Some teachers will simply not be good at communicating or following a 504. I had enourmous problems just getting 3 teachers to do this and they were all at a 504 planning meeting. I felt like the 504 was signed and then nothing changed, and wondered if they even read what they signed (although I think part of this was that our district is so horrible, the teachers had probably never even seen a 504 for ADHD before, and didn't understand that they were REQUIRED to actually follow it. Hopefully you're not going to deal with such nonsense).

Such a rigid homework policy is dumb. And middle school grades do matter, because they affect placement in future years and because they influence a student's self-concept. There are probably bright but disorganized children, especially boys, who are convinced that they are bad at school.

Even though your dd is doing well with organization, I would make sure the 504 has organizational goals in it because the transition to middle school and multiple teachers is tough for everyone, let alone someone with ADHD. I would try to get your dd to have a planner in which she writes homework, tests and other assignments, (maybe your school does this already) and have it checked by the teacher (and you) each day, at least until you know your dd is keeping up with everything. My grade skipped son doesn't have ADHD, but he hasn't ever had to concentrate on homework before, so that was his biggest issue in middle school.

You've received great advice above. I'll just add three things:

1) Emphasize spaghetti's advice: "I'd not mention the grade skip to anyone-- at least not at the beginning because that's what they will have on their mind. The farther she gets from the grade skip, the more they will forget-- kids and adults alike."
IOW, beware of thinking "I know that we will get some special treatment since DD is a grade skipped child."

2) Middle school grades are retained in a longitudinal database along with a host of other information.

3) For 504 accommodations, "preferential seating" may be vague and have a whiff of elitism; "Seating near teacher" may be more precise and therefore easier to implement.

My DD skipped K and she was 10 when she started MS. So, she had all her friends going to the same school and everything was smooth. One of her best friends is at least MG and probably PG and I reached out to her parents and both of them got enrolled in Algebra 1 class. She has at least a friend or two in each class.

But in middle school, the kids starting to group into cool kids crowd, nerd crowd, etc... and it could be bad especially for girls (more so when they get into puberty and teenager years). If they don't aleady have hobbies, make sure to keep them busy in those years.

Guidance counselor meetings written into plan, if possible.

A lot is really going to depend on the teacher fit, which might not be predictable
(aka, if you ask for particular teachers, it may not work out as expected.)

So true. With one girl in high school and the other going into 8th, I've seen some truly ridiculous, selfish and sometimes cruel behavior from good kids who we've known for years. Fortunately, most of them have returned to their senses by the time they hit high school.

I actually think that it might be better for your DD not to be with her best friend so that she will branch out and meet new people. Her best friend may be itching to branch out. She may ditch her. She may find a boyfriend and not want your kid hanging around. You don't want to have your kid's social well being dependent on one other fickle middle school aged girl. In middle school, it is wise to cultivate multiple places to land.

Ugh. That's nasty. DD is perfectly behaved (scared sometimes of getting in trouble), but, she loses stuff between class and home and back again. That's what we are up against.

I think this is a good goal to add to the 504 as well. DD had a planner this year but never wrote anything in it, sigh. I would love to have the teacher check it. I currently look up all the homework due (via the online info from teachers) and turn it into a word doc that I tape to a door in the kitchen. Getting DD to write down her work would be a positive step forward! Question - would every teacher do this at the end of each class? Have middle school parents had success with this idea?

Good to know about trying to get ahead of the game (504). I will be discussing this with the AG teacher.
I can't imagine how the grade skip won't be obvious. DD is the size of a minnow. We went to the school orientation and some teachers looked at her very oddly. I know that when she moved into 5th a few months ago she jumped right into class discussions (learned this in p-t conference). She won't shrink back from being part of the class so hopefully the teachers will see she isn't a "problem" to deal with.

I guess it does sound like I expect special treatment. But, the AG teacher is the one who asked us to come in because she wants to make sure all goes well for DD. She is a wonderful woman who even called me in to discuss DD when we were facing the acceleration into 5th. She was talking then about what the middle school could do to make 6th grade a good fit for DD. This school has a student this year who was accelerated into 6th so the staff is aware of the challenges. The AG teacher has asked if I want my daughters together or separate because she wants DD to feel safe.
Oh, that "preferential seating" bit is a phrase our district uses for issues from hearing disabled children to kids with learning needs. I wonder if I could change it to "near the teacher though" because that is exactly what we want!!

Like an every few months "check in"?

Couple more questions:

How do middle school gym classes play out for kids who are younger because of acceleration? As I have mentioned, DD is tiny.
Do you all, with older kids currently in middle school or beyond, see the teachers do a better job at matching level of work to the student? Or is it more of the same - kids getting tired of the slow pace of school?

Comment: Poor DD came home after hearing about puberty from the science teacher and asked if she should be "changing" now. She said she was just a kid and not ready. She is looking at her fellow 5th graders - some of whom have "blossomed" already. We had a big hug as I assured her that it would happen for her when her body was ready for it!

Yes, I would say a check in near the beginning of the year, after that when there are issues (social or organizational) and then every few months whether there seems to be an issue or not. That sounds ideal to me.

And on your other note, 5th grade is the time when all the kids, but maybe especially girls can be at very different stages regardless of being grade-skipped or not. I noticed a girl who was about 5'8" next to a girl who is about 4"8". About the same age.

I usually just elaborate on the accommodation:

"Preferential seating: away from distractions, proximal to instruction, and convenient for frequent teacher cueing, reminders, and check-ins."

I think preferential seating is used because it may look different in different classrooms and for different disabilities. And even for different activities within the same classroom. What if "near the teacher" is put down and the teacher doesn't have one spot...does the kid move around too.

I see aeh elaborated better than I could.

DD is the youngest kid in 4th grade and her class is a combined 4th/5th grade class with 2/3 of the class being 5th graders. She looks like a tiny little girl compared to most of the other kids (and she's average for her age). Seems like the "blossoming" is happening earlier and earlier. I have the Amercican Girl book about body changes in my closet and am thinking about giving it to her just so she can understand what is going on with her classmates.

Yes, exactly. Well said.

Well said. Parents may wish to keep physical stature separate from issues of age and/or grade skip.

You may wish to consider using phrases like "meeting DD10's educational needs" (or transitional needs, or acceleration needs) rather than "special treatment" which may invoke "special snowflake" syndrome.

While I understand the use of hyperbole, if the need should arise to discuss your daughter's size, you may wish to do so using facts, such as the CDC growthcharts. For example at 10 years old your daughter may be the size of an average (50th percentile) 6 year old and/or the height of an average (50th percentile) 7 year old. (As most children begin school at 5-6 years old, people who do not know her may incorrectly think she is in 1st or 2nd grade, as "most" children that size/height might generally be in one of those grades.)

How gym class is handled may depend upon the school policies and the teacher. Up to the 2012-2013 academic year, many public schools used the Presidential Physical Fitness Test, whose award charts show evaluation of performance by AGE, however some schools still held all students to the benchmarks for the average age of students in the GRADE, thereby shortchanging accelerated (and multiple grade accelerated) students of the physical fitness awards which they had legitimately earned by performance for their AGE. This program has since been replaced with the Presidential Youth Fitness Program, which emphasizes personal progress over performance. This program may be something to discuss if your local phy ed program does not currently seem to be based upon individual progress for each student's physical fitness.

If you did not already, you may wish to share that the age range may be about 8-13 years old (and that at age 13 she will be in 9th grade?) as this may provide some personal context or framework so she can relate this to herself. The American Girl books on The Care and Keeping of You (books 1 & 2, for younger girls and older girls), The Feelings Book, and the books in the "Smart Girls Guide" series are often helpful to middle school girls.

There are many sources of 504 accommodations ideas online. The wrightslaw website and their book From Emotion to Advocacy, Understood.org, ADDitude, are some places to find information which you can sort through to see what may be helpful for meeting your child's educational needs so she can access the learning opportunities offered in school. Here is one list from ADDitude online e-magazine. Interested parents can sign up to receive free e-newsletters with information such as FAQs, tips, and lists. Excellent advice from aeh (as usual) on this recent post: group accommodations and organize into categories to make them easier to recall and execute.

In general, for planning and advocacy, you'd want to have done research in preparation for your meeting. This may include:
- course descriptions and/or end-of-year outcomes for the various levels of LA being offered,
- information about your daughter's strengths in this area, accomplishments/achievements to date,
- information about any potential weaknesses in this area and/or need for IEP/504 in this area.

Wishing you a successful meeting, and a great year ahead for your daughters!

Perhaps request that both your DDs be placed in the same homeroom and a couple of the key courses. In our system, a lot of the administrative stuff gets taken care of during homeroom, which is the first 10 minutes and last 5 minutes of the day.

I agree with the suggestion not to push for placement with her best pal. It will be easier for your DD to branch out and make new friends if she doesn't have that kind of clutch. It is important to make more than one friend in every class since it is not uncommon to miss classes here and there for rehearsals, field trips, etc. Although I have twins, they only share a couple of classes so their friends have been great sources for stuff they missed or forgot to write down. They generally get a quicker response when they im or skype or text their friends than their teachers.

I would also have your DD examine her interests and narrow down some clubs to join as that is a fantastic way to make friends, especially for kids not in the same classes this year but may well be in the same classes next year.

I really would not worry so much about her size. If she is already 10 now, there will be plenty of kids who are within 6 months of her in age in 6th grade. Due to different growth spurts, kids really vary in size in middle school. There are kids under 4 and a half feet as well as kids over 6 feet.

When my DD had "preferential seating" in her IEP we had to be very specific. The specialist working with her suggested seating in the 2nd row (not the first) and always facing the board. The reason for the 2nd row was for a few reasons. One was the the front row is often for those kids who are misbehaving. In 5th my DD got placed next to the boy who poked whomever was next to him since in the teachers mind 'preferential seating' == front row. Made the situation worse not better. And the second was my DD needed was to be able to observe other students yet not be too far back to miss what was going on.

Thanks all. Lots to look into!
I, too, would recommend the American Girl books and that other one mentioned about girls and puberty. Both my girls have known about puberty and the reproduction since they were little (who knew little kids could have such questions!!!), but experiencing it in real life is different!

Sorry to harp on DD's size. She gets tired of having 2 and 3rd graders lord over her (they think she's younger). Although she told me that she's getting really good at giving them a cool look and stating calmly, "I am a 5th grader." and setting them straight. A fellow 5th grader told DD, "Go away little girl" the other day. DD fumed all the way home. And then our pediatrician, upon hearing that DD was moving to 6th grade this Fall was horrified - "She will be the smallest one there!!" Sigh. This grade skip has gone so well (getting 4s which are like A's), but just some blips every now and then.

I really need to think about the best friend issue. I will definitely talk it over with the SW and AG teacher. Clubs - yes definitely. She will be in band, too. That saved me in middle school way back when!!

I wouldn't worry too much about size. My youngest will enter 6th grade this fall. She turns 11 next month and she is 4 ft 3.5 in, 51 lbs - I think that is on the small side. Typically is 1st percentile for BMI. Middle kid was similar size at that age but she starting growing around the 11th birthday and is now average height, sort of average weight (5'5" and 105). I didn't finish growing until I turned 18.

Sure, there are times my kids wished they were early rather than late growers, but they will be fine. I don't listen to the pediatricians. We all had a laugh when they sent middle kid a letter saying they (supposedly respected CHOP) wanted to include her in a study of children who will be adults of short stature - for females that is under 4'10". I know my kids won't be tall, but just because a kid is short at 10 or 11 it isn't the end of the world. Hopefully 6th grade will meet your kiddo's educational needs.

Reading through these posts, I had differing perspectives on a few issues. My one dd was also grade skipped, and already young for grade, as well as very tiny. Honestly, being small WAS hard for her. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it was a big deal to her, and I think you should make sure not to dismiss her feelings, if she is truly bothered by it (it may just be your own worry, in which case, try not to let it show). Dd is now average height and a very beautiful 20-something, but it took her a while to get over the height issue. She was a sensitive, PG child who felt very dismissed and invalidated by teachers and others who let their perspectives of her be affected by her size. Ds15 has a friend who is extremely short and he is also bothered at least weekly by thoughtless comments. It is tough to be the outlier sometimes!

As far as friends, my dd was matched up with a friend when she skipped (at a younger age) and a friend of mine had her child skipped into middle school and they did the same thing. In both cases, I thought it was a great idea, and helped a ton! If your dd will *only* play with this one friend, or the friend is a negative influence, or if the two of them withdraw from everyone else when they're together, then yes, don't put them in the same room. However, if she is a support for your daughter, I say go for it!

I have mixed feelings about talking to the teachers. Honestly, I think they'll all end up knowing anyway, and if you can do something to make your dd's experience better, you should. OTOH, with two young-for-grade kids, we definitely experienced discrimination in attitude and, unfortunately, action from teachers. Not all of them, or even a majority, but we did experience it. One of my two younger-for-grade ones has EF issues, and we also experienced the "everything is the fault of her age" issue. Now, the other one, who finished college at age 20 and has always been organized and on track, as well as taller - well, teachers actually asked me if she was held back a year because she was so mature. Sigh. They see what they want to see.

Being in activities and band will help, and even if she has a few rough spots, she will be so much happier having work a little more at her level. There's no perfect solution, but both my girls agreed that they couldn't have imagined being with kids a few grades younger and were happy with their placement!

DD is average for her age but small for her grade. I have coached her to cry in private but maintain the stuff upper lip in public as nothing makes a bully stop (that doesn't involve at least a suspension) as quickly as being ignored.

She will be going into 6th grade but sitting with the 8th graders upper track for Maths and those pre-pubescent boys are going to be mean I am am sure particularly when they get beaten by a girl! LOL

Great answer.

Possibly time to use that same cool look and again state that she is a 5th grader.

LOL, someone has to be the smallest... might as well be a kid who is also one of the smartest!
Unlike some other kids who merely aged into her grade, your DD earned her spot.

Eh... sometimes. Often times it just makes the bully escalate, because they're looking for a reaction, and not getting it makes them angry, and they try harder.

My DD10 has a quick wit, so I began coaching her to use humor as her response, which I believe had a role in helping her defuse such situations and turn enemies into friends in the long run. But it was also helped big in the short run, because talking about clever responses she could have used for the mean thing some kid said to her made her tears go away.

Some of us were grade-skipped and also very small for age (so much so that nearly every one of my elementary school report cards actually has a teacher comment beginning, "although aeh is very small of stature..."). Most of the time, it was effective to ignore--though it is possible that I may have bit someone in first or second grade...

But long-term, I think Dude's strategy of using (kind) humor had the best returns for me. That, and being a good listener.

My skipped kid is tall for his age but not necessarily tall for the grade he is skipped into. He will look average height when he goes to middle school. I forget how young he is until he brings out the whine from his tool box. I don't think he uses that at school, saves it for me.

I have spent a lot of time at his school and have only seen one incident of concern and it was from a fifth grade girl who was cruel towards him. He just stared at her like a deer caught in headlights for a while and slowly wandered off. I wanted to slap her but I didn't think they would take to kindly to a volunteer slapping a student.

Everything else I have seen has been real positive and my son has never reported anything but happiness. Maybe the girl was just having a bad day.