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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 387
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Joined: Mar 2014
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It's been very helpful for our family too (and I think Dweck has a lot to offer gifted kids who hear the toxic "you're so smart" all the time). (And big congratulations for passing the bar!)
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 279
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Okay, I'll stand corrected there. Thanks.  I suspect that this means that the kids I knew (50-ish) were mostly in the very-severe to profound range. As I mentioned, there was just no way those kids would have been able to learn to read. Or, the condition itself had an effect that impaired the ability to read in spite of IQ around 40-ish (there were floor problems in testing). A comment I would like to add is that with technology to assist in communication, we are finding that at least some children are not as severely affected in intellectual disability than was previously thought. The consequences of not trying to teach these students any academic topics therefore is much more troubling. I think that most in the general population underestimate the abilities of people with ID.
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,051 Likes: 1
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Well, certainly not every 50-ish individual will learn to read or read well, but it's not a rare occurrence, especially in school systems that use phonetic approaches with those students (like Wilson or OG).
...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,297
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Well, certainly not every 50-ish individual will learn to read or read well, but it's not a rare occurrence, especially in school systems that use phonetic approaches with those students (like Wilson or OG). Oops. I meant that I met 50-ish of these kids over a period of 5-6 years or so. Many/most had IQs in the mid-40s or below (again, floor effects made it hard to calculate IQs in many of them). I thought that level was "severe" but maybe I was wrong?
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 358
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Joined: Mar 2011
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It's silly to assume that kids don't realize that there are differences in ability, they see it everyday in class. In general I believe in telling my son the truth, that brains matter, but effort is just as important. The latter point may not be as obvious to them if they don't encounter challenging material in school and is why it is so important for kids to be taught at their level. If they aren't challenged from an early age, they don't know that studying/working hard is important and will struggle later on as material becomes more difficult. I totally agree with this. Also the parents are not the only ones telling these kids they are smart. The other kids at school maybe even teachers are telling them this, especially if they are younger and still at the top of the class. How could they not know. How would Dweck suggest you counter this with her anti-praise research? We have praised effort and stepping out of your comfort zone for a long time with our ds but he knows what he is good/great at and what he is just OK at.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,498
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We have praised effort and stepping out of your comfort zone for a long time with our ds but he knows what he is good/great at and what he is just OK at. I don't think Dweck said you can or should hide this information: only that it's helpful to know that growth and change are possible.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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It wasn't until I entered law school that all of this began to backfire, as I found myself entirely unprepared to deal with real challenge. Consequently, I hit a wall, never practiced law or came anywhere close to meeting my potential. Instead, I've been stuck in middle management, bored and frustrated for years. OK. I'll bite. How exactly did law school present a "challenge?"
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,428
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Like the AFQT, IQ is an imperfect measure at best, and the continuum is so large, that except for obvious, extreme cases, the concept of hard limits isn't really one with a lot of practical application. This is more what I meant. I mean, not to say that there aren't differences in ability, but I do get nervous around the idea of "This Is Not For You." I know a lot of bright/not gifted kids and a lot of gifted kids, by IQ, and I don't feel like the sorting was extremely awesomely perfect. Do you all? I see outliers where it's clear the sorting mechanism was right, but I also see a lot of mushy middle where motivation, personality, grit, background, opportunity, teaching, parenting, LDs, whatever are obviously mattering a lot. In addition, I also see gifted kids who have a lot of challenges, and may not be able to make the most of what they have intellectually due to those challenges. (Note: one of my children could be sorted into this category.) You could say their IQ is high, but their Other-Q (not necessarily EQ--many challenges in the world) is low. Some people might say--well, they have limits on what they can achieve, due to that low Other-Q. I don't think that opinion would be popular here. All right, maybe Other-Q limitations are more malleable, but you see what I'm getting at, hopefully.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,297
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This is more what I meant. I mean, not to say that there aren't differences in ability, but I do get nervous around the idea of "This Is Not For You." I don't think that's the right way to look at the question (actually, when it's framed this way, it makes it very easy to slide gently into the everyone-can-try-anything mindset). Rather, I think that schools and society as a whole have a responsibility to help kids discover what they're GOOD at. Instead, we tell everyone to go to college, as though a BA is a career panacea.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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This is more what I meant. I mean, not to say that there aren't differences in ability, but I do get nervous around the idea of "This Is Not For You." I don't think that's the right way to look at the question (actually, when it's framed this way, it makes it very easy to slide gently into the everyone-can-try-anything mindset). Rather, I think that schools and society as a whole have a responsibility to help kids discover what they're GOOD at. Instead, we tell everyone to go to college, as though a BA is a career panacea. Well, it *is* a career panacea for the College Administration Bureaucracy Complex.
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