Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion I'm so Proud

I'm pretty new to this forum, and I've been reading some of your posts with my jaw almost locked in a "that's astounding" position in response to what some of your kids can do at such young ages. Sometimes I feel out-of-place, thinking that DD2.5 is smart, but not that smart. It seems like a lot of the kids are EG or PG, which feels very out of my league. But today, DD2.5 did something that has amazed my DH and me. It may not be a huge deal to most of you whose kids practically came out of the womb doing it , but DD sounded out and read her first word -- TUB.

We are so proud of her, and as far as friends and family go, we have no one to celebrate with us. So this is my little bragging post to say how proud I am of DD2.5, and that her ability to learn amazes me everyday.

How cool!

If it helps, I like to think of these kids we all discuss as OUR kids, so I get a thrill from the cool things they ALL do. I'm rooting for every one of them to grow and succeed and be happy and healthy and productive. As Dave Letterman says/used to say, "It's an exhibition, not a competition. Please, no wagering."

Now, as for your particular one of "our" kids...reading a word at 2.5 is pretty doggone early! Oh, yes!

And FYI: practically every one of us with an HG+ child has thought to herself "Well, doing that thing at this time is not that big a deal, right? Pretty normal, I think. S/he's smart, but not more than MG, I think," only to find out later that it's NOT ND AT ALL! It's called GT denial, my friend!

FWIW, I think you have a healthy case.

The other thing to keep in mind is that every GT child is different. DS5 is a great reader now, but he wasn't an early reader like many that post. So hearing about your DD sounding out her first word at 2 is definitely amazing to us! Our DS's strengths are just different, that's all.

Don't worry. GT-denial goes away in three, or four years, or... well I'll let you know when I'm over my case... :-)

JB

I personally think that is awesome!

My DS7 was not particularly an early reader either. He just went from zero to reading chapter books in a matter of months. I really don't remember him ever needing to sound out words. I just figured every kid was learning to read that way. My DD4 loves to read though, although within her comfort zone and I don't push her on it at all. She started out just like your DD!

Wow! What a wonderful achievement. You have every right to be proud and enjoy every second of it! It kind of sucks that you cannot really share such a milestone with too many people

If it makes you feel better our older one (DYS) could remember words at this age but couldn't sound them out. He "only" recognized words he remembered. As a matter of fact he never sounded out words, not even later on.


BTDT. We knew DS5 was smart, but not "that" smart. May be a little bit more than an average gifted kid, but for sure nothing that unusual. Let's just say that flew out of the window once we saw his score results. Your daughter sure belongs here

Now I am going through the same thing with DS4 who btw started sounding out unknown words at 2.5, but he cannot be as gifted as others on this board

If you haven't tried it yet. www.starfall.com is a fantastic source for beginner readers. We think that's where DS4 learned how to sound out words.

Congratulations again. I still remember how much excited we were about the very same thing.

My kids are now 13 � and 11 � and sounding out words are still not an area of strength. If they don�t recognize it, they can botch it up pretty well! My husband is the only one in our family with phonetic proficiency!

Good for your DD!

You absolutely should be proud, HM - what an exciting milestone! Thanks for telling us about it!

As for feeling out-of-place, if it's any consolation I'll add my voice to those who recognize that feeling. I regularly find myself reading about the accomplishments of other kids and thinking "Well that's clearly a different league from us." But then our DS4 will do something so unusual and striking, or we'll get feedback from someone very experienced with kids this age, and I'll think, "Hmm. Well maybe I'm not crazy after all." The thing is that each kid and each environment is so unique that it's incredibly difficult, for me at least, to know how one could even start to compare them. That's why it's probably very good advice not to try. What's exciting is to revel in the joy that these kids have in learning about new things, to cherish the glow you find in their eyes when something really clicks for them, and to give them the opportunity for those experiences as often as possible. Cultivate that joy, and every one of our kids will be well set up to take advantage of the plentiful gifts they have. There are other important aspects to parenting, of course, but this one seems pretty fundamental for kids like ours.

It's not the luck of phonetic proficiency. DS5 is quite good in reading in his other language which is almost completely phonetic. When he encounters a new word in English he will read it using the correct rules (not that it would work all the time) but he won't even try to sound it out. He will say the whole word or may be break it in two parts if needed.

Congradulations, HM - I'm proud of your 'our' kid too! How cool!
I love all of BaseballDad's points here. When my son was 3-6 there was no forum like this, and yes, although its for all gifted, it does have a 'farther out on the scale' slant. (I tried SENG's forums for a while, but I 'felt' more at home here, so here I am.) Still, I did the same thing you do, by reading the book 'Genius Denied' by the Davidsons. I saw what the other kids were doing, and thought 'Well, at least we don't have to worry about that, my son doesn't do what those kids do.' About a year later we had test results and I was filling out my YSP application. Apparently those IQ testers jobs are secure.

Cultivate the Joy!
Grinity

That's so cool! Have fun and continue to let her lead the way.

Grinity, I did exactly the same thing! Genius Denied has description of unbelievably smart kids, so not DS5. Well, here we are, the kid is DYS. May be that's why the IQ tests took me by such a surprise.

I think JBDad's point that they're all different--so even though your child doesn't do that particular thing that some other astonishing child does doesn't mean they're not HG+--is a vital one.

What's your child's "thing" is going to be different from the "thing" of some other HG+ child. You can't really compare apples to oranges. I like to point out that milestones can help a parent to recognize GTness, but I don't think that their *not* reaching early milestones should be used to rule out GTness. There are too many complicating factors there.

It can be reassuring to those of us in GT denial to say, "Oh, well, my child can't do THAT, so we can mange easily" though, can't it?

Thanks everyone for the congratulations. It's so nice to find a place that I can tell someone in excitement something my DD did -- not to brag but to celebrate a milestone and to cheer her on. And everyone here is genuinely happy for her, not thinking something like, "Well, my kid can do this, so what's the big deal," with a jealous over-tone.

I'm so inspired by the complexities of these children and how different they all are. And yes, I guess I am in GT-denial. She's so young still that sometimes we think maybe she's just an average smart person or maybe we're making something out of nothing. Not to mention she's our first-born, so we have no stinkin' clue what's ND and what's GT.

On a lighter note, I took DD to get her haircut the other day, and when we were done, she got off the chair and trotted to the waiting area in the front of the salon. I sauntered over there to see what she was doing, thinking she had gone back to look at the magazines again. Instead, she was standing right in front of the high school girl that's the receptionist. The girl was sweeping the floor and DD took it upon herself to nuzzle right in front of the girl and grab a hold of the broom too, no doubt to help her! DD is always ready to help someone do something whether they need it or not!

A lot of us find it hard to share our children's accomplishments. My mother told me a long time ago she stopped telling her friends about her grandchild and what he could do because to quote her "they just didn't believe me." I thought she was exaggerating and, honestly, I thought she was being a little bit silly. It wasn't until I started sharing my stories with other parents and got a few incredulous looks of my own that I too stopped talking about DS.

But... this is a great forum to share! Keep sharing.

JB

My daughter was 2.5 when she read Dollar at the Dollar Rent a Car. It was a moment like wow, but then I think maybe many kids do this. They don't. Now, you have to think about schools. Yes, start now reading these posts and understanding your child's needs, and what her personality is like and the options available. Time flies as you go through these years.

Ren

YEAH HoosierMommy. I just love watching them reach those milestones, whenever they happen!

I recall when DS5 was 2.5 or so, he saw an unmarked truck which said "FedEX." It wasn't the FedEX colors which is quite unusual. He says "Oh that says FedEX." I'm thinking, "how does he know that b/c it's not the typical colored FedEX truck." So I ask him. He looks at me like I'm being silly and sounds out "well mommy, it says /f/ /e/ /d/ /e/ /ks/. Well there you go.

HoosierMommy - always feel free to brag here! I remember the early years of disbelief, thinking "someone must have just told that to DS" and only being able to tell my mom about the things DS was saying/doing. It was a real comfort to find this site.

Dazey - that's so funny! "well, duh, mom!"

Hi HoosierMommy!

Love the proud mommy moment! Loads more to come!

I'm so glad you have a place where you are *allowed* to brag.

My DH and I are so confused as to what to do with DD about preschool. Since she knows a lot of the preschool curriculum, I was thinking of just finding some kind of activity for her to do with other kids her age for socialization. And then I'll just keep teaching her at home until she's ready for school.

Is that what a lot of you guys did??

I'm afraid if she goes to preschool, she's going to feel out-of-place when all the kids and teachers figure out that she knows her alphabet, colors, shapes and how to read. I've read some posts about preschool sometimes being detrimental to the child's self-concept and self-esteem. Then again, they're so young -- does all of these problems really start so early?

As you can tell, I'm clueless. Little DD has really thrown her mommy and daddy for a loop!

It completely depends on the personality of your child and the preschool options.

My DS, who was reading sight words starting around 2, never had any trouble with day care. They did tumbling, dance, crafts (totally open-ended without a project goal), educational computer games, music, food preparation, swimming lessons, story time, trips to the park, and lots of blocks and books, and toys etc. They believed that young children learn best through open-ended play and since there was going to be plenty of didactic instruction in kindergarten, there was no need to do very much of that in pre-school.

DS7 did pretty well at a non-academic half-day pre-K program at age 3. Some of that depends upon how well your DD does with same-age kids, I think. My son's interest/obsession was cars and things with wheels. He could read in pre-K, but he wasn't obsessive about it. So he fit in pretty nicely, all-in-all. He enjoyed pre-K and made friends.

We tried a more academic, Montessori pre-K the following year. Some people have had really good luck in this situation, and some have not. I'd say that if you go with something more academic, then you have to be SURE that the teachers understand and embrace where your chiid is and what she can do. This is not always easy to make happen. They're not used to 2 or 3 or even 4yos who read or do math.

In our particular case, we tried and tried to get the attention of the teachers because he was doing nothing in the language arts area whatsoever--they started him WAAAAAAAY too low, and he was bored. I prodded them about it, but I was ignored for half the year. When DH and I saw in their evaluation that he was *behind* in LA, we saw that we had no choice but to become "those parents" at the parent-teacher conference in January, and they finally (grudgingly) realized that we were right. The second half of the year was a tremendous improvement. He was the only kid in the school allowed to read books once and be checked off, since they now knew that if he could read it, he REALLY read it. But it was a hard fight, and I wonder if he wouldn't have been better at the non-academic pre-K and then getting his intellectual stimulation from me.

Teachers who got him would have made all the difference though. That's the most important thing, by far. More than the program type, the focus, whatever. A teacher who gets your child is gold.

My DH did not have a good time in school and that worries us about our DD. DH is very GT (never tested -- they didn't do that regularly back then, you know), read before K, questioned the tooth fairy, read books about planets in 1st grade, extremely mechanical, etc. But he had one bad teacher early on in 1st or 2nd grade who made him feel very unintelligent (she was upset b/c he corrected her when she said the sun was a planet), and that one bad experience affected his entire education and how he saw himself.

I had a bad experience in junior high. I was bumped up into the advanced math class, but I wasn't doing well. On the day I transferred down to the regular math class, the teacher pulled me out in the hallway and said, "Some kids are just slower than others." I could not have felt any lower and from then on considered myself stupid when it came to math. Now that I look back, I realize the teacher was not only wrong about me, but she was just a bad teacher in general -- almost half of her class had to drop out, so she obviously wasn't teaching very well.

My experience was much later in life, but DH had a bad start from the get-go. Not to mention, when the school advised that he skip 2nd grade, his parents held him back so as not to make one of his older brothers feel bad.

We're nervous about DD in school, even preschool, because we don't want these kinds of things to bring her down. Thankfully, she has parents who are very aware of her abilities and are ready to advocate for her, whereas our parents didn't understand what GT really meant and how to make the most out of our educations. (I had limited options anyway, growing up in a military family.)

At any rate, we don't want DD to suffer the same way DH and I did in school. My DH wants to revive the One Room Schoolhouse approach in our backyard!!

I live in a small city, but I have not been able to locate any "play schools" versus preschools in the area. I'm not sure we can afford a Montessori school; there's only one public one in town and it's not close to home. The closest Montessori school has scholarship programs, though, so we were going to look into that. It's all a big question mark at this point.

When I signed up to be a parent, I never thought choosing a preschool would be such a daunting task. Most people just find one close to home or with their church and drop their kids off.

If it were only that easy . . .

I hear you! I felt crazy pressure, and I didn't even realize DS7 was more than MG back in pre-K.

The good news is that you're on top of things. Your DD is really lucky! She's going to get what she needs because you're taking care of it.

My best advice: doing your best is all you have to do. Honest. If your DD sees that you're trying to find a good fit for her, then she'll know that she's loved and supported. That's all she needs.

As for schools...When you say "preschools" vs. "playschools," what are you looking for? Most schools for 2-4yos are not highly academic, at least not around here (also in the Midwest). The usual pre-K schedule is something like this:

*circle time (sharing, weather, reading friends names, etc.)
*free choice play in the room (dress up, blocks, games, manipulatives, painting, etc.)
*circle time (read a book, sing a song, etc.)
*snack
*play outside (gross motor, trikes, swings, etc.)

You can see that there's not a lot of academic content there, and virtually no drill. It's mostly play time. I looked at a LOT of pre-K programs, and pretty much all of the standard church-based or independent programs looked just like this. The academic ones were unusual/downright rare.

Did you consider this to be an academic program? Maybe we're just using different words for the same thing?

The 2 preschools (in 2 different cities) DS6 went to were through churches, one a Methodist church, the other an Episcopal church. We weren't members of either (or Christian, really), but they were absolutely wonderful experiences for him. They were both playschools with very little academic content, I know they practiced their ABCs and maybe counting to 10, but there was no requirement of mastery and everything was done through play. They were also so much cheaper than the private alternatives we found since they were non-profit ministries of the church.

The preschool I'm basing my knowledge on is through a good friend of mine. From the sounds of it, they do a lot of with the alphabet, numbers, colors, shapes, etc. Maybe that's one of the few preschools around that does this type of curriculum versus a play-based curriculum, which is all I really want. Or maybe that's just a small part of their day and the rest is full of other activities.

As you can tell, I haven't gone to a lot of preschools in the area to see how they operate. That's mainly because DD won't start preschool until next fall (09) when she's 3.5 so I have some time to research my options. If most preschools are designed how you think, Kriston, then choosing one shouldn't be so bad. I just looked at the tuition of a small nearby private school and gasped. I'm thinking I can get what we need from a less-expensive option, especially for preschool. (It's not like it's college!)

Yes, I'm with M&M: church-based pre-Ks are rarely very religious, provided you pick some relatively mainstream church denomination. Usually you get a little something at Easter and Christmas, and that's about it, and even then the kids usually get the "Christian-light" version, not some walloping, Bible-thumping. And they're rarely very academic. Maybe a little abc-ing and some counting, but it's usually next-to-nothing, especially for the 2-3yos. It never bothered my DS to read the alphabet or to count stuff once a day. You're right though, HM, it depends on how much time they spend on it. 5 minutes is probably tolerable; all day is definitely not!

One of the benefits to their assuming kids that age won't know such things is that they also don't usually teach it to them much!

Here are a few of our personal experiences:

The church-based program we used did use of lot of young adult church members teaching. They were nice, but they really knew nothing about early childhood education. Most of the crafts DS brought home had clearly been done by the teachers not the kids. The discipline was spotty and the classrooms chaotic. DS hated it there. I'm not suggesting that this is the norm; I only want to point out the importance of visiting.

DH's job had a YMCA affiliated preschool program that DS adored. All the teachers had early childhood ed degrees or were in training. They paid well and there was very little turn-over. The teachers really got the kids and the discipline was fair and consistant. They actually taught DS how to behave so as not to be bullied (as well as giving appropriate consequences to the bullies). I don't know about all YMCA programs, but ours was fabulous.

You might also look into parent co-op preschools. I know of some that are fabulous and very affordable. Heck, you could even start your own.

Good luck!

DS, now 5 had attended a YMCA based program for the last three years. It started out as "mommie-and-me" style and we just got done with 3-day/week program. It was a lot like Kriston described. For us it was definitely social oriented and to some degree "getting institutionalized" (I mean that in a good way of getting acclimated to school). We found this to be a very positive experience for us. DS5 just picks stuff up on his own so we didn't worry about what the preschool was teaching in the academically sense.

JB

Good point, acs. Our church program was accredited and had degreed early-childhood ed teachers who do this for a career. I agree that the sort of church-based program you describe wouldn't be one I'd want to pay for.

I too recommend a school which doesn't too much academics stuff. Now, pretty much every preschool will tell you that they teach colors, shapes, numbers, letters, and such. Simply because parents expect them to do so. It's all about how much time is spent on this. If teaching colors means having red day, when you come in red t-shirt, do red art, have red snack, and bring something red for show & tell then it most likely will be fun for any child even if the child already knows the color (which is mostly the case anyway)

DS5 was in such a preschool and it was great. Yes, they did a letter of the week, but he loved coming up with unusual things for show & tell. The teacher let him read to the other kids and she did understood that he was gifted. She talked to me about grade skipping, early college entrance, and different options for him.

They learned about space and other things, but it was only a small part of the day. DS5 took it as an opportunity to introduce dwarf planets to the other kids and the teacher Most of the day was spent playing with others and DS5 had great time there.

DS4 went to Montessori last year. Not a good year. They didn't get him, they didn't understand that fine motor skills of 3 year old can be no match for his knowledge. No academics is better than wrong academics is all I have to say. Next year he will go to the preschool his older brother went to. He will have more fun there and he can get all the academics his heart desires at home.

Find a place you are comfortable with and where you think your daughter will have fun and be happy.

My DD4 went last year to a very small co-op preschool. It cost 1/3 the cost of my son's preschool and I actually like it a better! It is play/social based but it is very individualized for each child. They are always modifying projects, information based on the needs of individual children. I do have to say, many GT kids have gone through this program. They typically have 2-3 kids a year that are reading (out of 20). Being really involved at the school helps as well.

What is a co-op preschool? I am not familiar with this. Living in the Bible Belt, my town is flooded with church-based preschools galore. With the little research I have done, some sound pretty religious while most do not seem to stress religion. I'm interested to know what a co-op preschool has to offer.

co-op preschool is a preschool where the parents take turns as a teacher aid. Let's say you need to come to preschool once every 2 weeks a spent your time there helping the teacher.

I personally am not a big fan of this. It introduces lots of inconsistency and if your child likes a structure this may not be for her. Every parent aid does things differently, they may discipline children very differently or may not bother to discipline at all. They may favor their own kids or their friends. The good thing is when you are there as an aid you really get to know how your kid is doing, who her friends are, and what's going on in the classroom.

When DS5 was in his last year of preschool, his class aid left and parents subbed there for about a month before a new aid was hired. I really hated the inconsistency of it, and DS5 was acting out a lot at home at during that period.

Thanks for the advice. My DD really thrives on routine and structure so I don't think that would be a very good fit for her. We'll stick to a more traditional preschool!

Isn't it amazing when you hear a totally unexpected thing come out of their mouths at this age? My son turned 3 last Thursday. He opened and read all his birthday cards out loud without assistance. In the past week, he's picked up the phrase "independent play" and used it properly. As in, "Mommy, I'm going to get 10 minutes of independent play before we put on my jammies." He's also mastered compromise, both the word and the concept. We employ this one deciding how many bedtime stories he gets before lights out. Fun stuff. Now if I could only get him to grasp potty training!

I wanted to tell you that DS has been in a full day "pre-school" now for a while and I was worried that he'd be bored silly and act out. What has ended up happening is a whole lot of play and he's become the resident "go to" guy for stories. His teachers report that during free time, he'll often be found reading books to the other kids. Or looking at the calendar with them. Helping.

He loves his school and although it's not a trend I want to have continued when he hits "real" school, being a helper to his teachers and relating to his classmates in this way is just fine for now.

What I like in the school is the structure, the social interaction (he may be able to read a book about sharing to another kid, but that doesn't mean he likes to actually share) and all the really fun play activities they do.

I'll get serious about school expectations when he turns 5 (I'm pretty much convinced we're going to have to come up with some creative planning for him from the get-go), but for now, I'm just really happy he's going to a place he loves. He'll get the nourishment his brain needs at home and with outside resources.

By the way, today was Water Day at his school. He may be one smart cookie, but who doesn't love running through an Elmo sprinkler with a bunch of friends? Heck, that sounds good to me and I'm 37!

Especially on these summer days when it's 187 degrees in the shade!

Nice post! Thanks for sharing that.

I expect that co-op preschools, like all kinds of preschools, are quite variable. A lot depends of the group of parents and the head teacher. I had a friend whose kids thrived in a co-op. They had a great hired teacher (certified in early childhood ed etc) who really led the show and the parents just helped out on the side, but always following the teacher's rules. After about 3 years, the teacher left; they had a hard time finding a good replacement, and the co-op went down hill to the point where my friend pulled her child out. Again, it is important to look at the specific programs, not just the type of program.

In general, a co-op preschool sounds a bit on the unstable side although I'm sure there are programs out there that are great. I've been searching for preschools quite extensively these past couple of days and have not found one co-op program. I don't really feel the urge try and find one either. I think my DD needs something a little different. She can be manipulative (one of her favorite things is to act like she doesn't understand what you're saying, even though she does), and I think she needs to have a very structured setting with more reliable staffing.

This thread has provided me with some good information about what to look for in a preschool. Thanks everyone for the info. Keep it coming; I'm always up for more.

Our co-op has 2 early childhood teachers that are paid to be there full time and do all the curriculum. There are only 20 kids in the program (in 2 classrooms - they shuffle the kids 3X during the year. The shuffle is very intentional in terms of kid's temperaments and needs). You get to know the families and the kids really well. Co-ops are very family/teacher dependent in terms of quality. I would guess the majority of kids in this school are MG+ based on the population it is serving. It is a really great set up for us. I can't think of a better fit for my DD. Our volunteer requirements are actually quite minimal at our co-op. The day to day routine is actually more structured and stable than my son's high buck preschool.

So at the end of the day, I personally think all schooling comes down to the teacher who is going to be with your child most of the time. Is it a teacher who pigeon holes the kids or does the teacher honor each child as an individual with strengths and weaknesses?