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DS7 did pretty well at a non-academic half-day pre-K program at age 3. Some of that depends upon how well your DD does with same-age kids, I think. My son's interest/obsession was cars and things with wheels. He could read in pre-K, but he wasn't obsessive about it. So he fit in pretty nicely, all-in-all. He enjoyed pre-K and made friends.

We tried a more academic, Montessori pre-K the following year. Some people have had really good luck in this situation, and some have not. I'd say that if you go with something more academic, then you have to be SURE that the teachers understand and embrace where your chiid is and what she can do. This is not always easy to make happen. They're not used to 2 or 3 or even 4yos who read or do math.

In our particular case, we tried and tried to get the attention of the teachers because he was doing nothing in the language arts area whatsoever--they started him WAAAAAAAY too low, and he was bored. I prodded them about it, but I was ignored for half the year. When DH and I saw in their evaluation that he was *behind* in LA, we saw that we had no choice but to become "those parents" at the parent-teacher conference in January, and they finally (grudgingly) realized that we were right. The second half of the year was a tremendous improvement. He was the only kid in the school allowed to read books once and be checked off, since they now knew that if he could read it, he REALLY read it. But it was a hard fight, and I wonder if he wouldn't have been better at the non-academic pre-K and then getting his intellectual stimulation from me.

Teachers who got him would have made all the difference though. That's the most important thing, by far. More than the program type, the focus, whatever. A teacher who gets your child is gold.

My DH did not have a good time in school and that worries us about our DD. DH is very GT (never tested -- they didn't do that regularly back then, you know), read before K, questioned the tooth fairy, read books about planets in 1st grade, extremely mechanical, etc. But he had one bad teacher early on in 1st or 2nd grade who made him feel very unintelligent (she was upset b/c he corrected her when she said the sun was a planet), and that one bad experience affected his entire education and how he saw himself.

I had a bad experience in junior high. I was bumped up into the advanced math class, but I wasn't doing well. On the day I transferred down to the regular math class, the teacher pulled me out in the hallway and said, "Some kids are just slower than others." I could not have felt any lower and from then on considered myself stupid when it came to math. Now that I look back, I realize the teacher was not only wrong about me, but she was just a bad teacher in general -- almost half of her class had to drop out, so she obviously wasn't teaching very well.

My experience was much later in life, but DH had a bad start from the get-go. Not to mention, when the school advised that he skip 2nd grade, his parents held him back so as not to make one of his older brothers feel bad.

We're nervous about DD in school, even preschool, because we don't want these kinds of things to bring her down. Thankfully, she has parents who are very aware of her abilities and are ready to advocate for her, whereas our parents didn't understand what GT really meant and how to make the most out of our educations. (I had limited options anyway, growing up in a military family.)

At any rate, we don't want DD to suffer the same way DH and I did in school. My DH wants to revive the One Room Schoolhouse approach in our backyard!!

I live in a small city, but I have not been able to locate any "play schools" versus preschools in the area. I'm not sure we can afford a Montessori school; there's only one public one in town and it's not close to home. The closest Montessori school has scholarship programs, though, so we were going to look into that. It's all a big question mark at this point.

When I signed up to be a parent, I never thought choosing a preschool would be such a daunting task. Most people just find one close to home or with their church and drop their kids off.

If it were only that easy . . .

I hear you! I felt crazy pressure, and I didn't even realize DS7 was more than MG back in pre-K.

The good news is that you're on top of things. Your DD is really lucky! She's going to get what she needs because you're taking care of it.

My best advice: doing your best is all you have to do. Honest. If your DD sees that you're trying to find a good fit for her, then she'll know that she's loved and supported. That's all she needs.

As for schools...When you say "preschools" vs. "playschools," what are you looking for? Most schools for 2-4yos are not highly academic, at least not around here (also in the Midwest). The usual pre-K schedule is something like this:

*circle time (sharing, weather, reading friends names, etc.)
*free choice play in the room (dress up, blocks, games, manipulatives, painting, etc.)
*circle time (read a book, sing a song, etc.)
*snack
*play outside (gross motor, trikes, swings, etc.)

You can see that there's not a lot of academic content there, and virtually no drill. It's mostly play time. I looked at a LOT of pre-K programs, and pretty much all of the standard church-based or independent programs looked just like this. The academic ones were unusual/downright rare.

Did you consider this to be an academic program? Maybe we're just using different words for the same thing?

The 2 preschools (in 2 different cities) DS6 went to were through churches, one a Methodist church, the other an Episcopal church. We weren't members of either (or Christian, really), but they were absolutely wonderful experiences for him. They were both playschools with very little academic content, I know they practiced their ABCs and maybe counting to 10, but there was no requirement of mastery and everything was done through play. They were also so much cheaper than the private alternatives we found since they were non-profit ministries of the church.

The preschool I'm basing my knowledge on is through a good friend of mine. From the sounds of it, they do a lot of with the alphabet, numbers, colors, shapes, etc. Maybe that's one of the few preschools around that does this type of curriculum versus a play-based curriculum, which is all I really want. Or maybe that's just a small part of their day and the rest is full of other activities.

As you can tell, I haven't gone to a lot of preschools in the area to see how they operate. That's mainly because DD won't start preschool until next fall (09) when she's 3.5 so I have some time to research my options. If most preschools are designed how you think, Kriston, then choosing one shouldn't be so bad. I just looked at the tuition of a small nearby private school and gasped. I'm thinking I can get what we need from a less-expensive option, especially for preschool. (It's not like it's college!)

Yes, I'm with M&M: church-based pre-Ks are rarely very religious, provided you pick some relatively mainstream church denomination. Usually you get a little something at Easter and Christmas, and that's about it, and even then the kids usually get the "Christian-light" version, not some walloping, Bible-thumping. And they're rarely very academic. Maybe a little abc-ing and some counting, but it's usually next-to-nothing, especially for the 2-3yos. It never bothered my DS to read the alphabet or to count stuff once a day. You're right though, HM, it depends on how much time they spend on it. 5 minutes is probably tolerable; all day is definitely not!

One of the benefits to their assuming kids that age won't know such things is that they also don't usually teach it to them much!

Here are a few of our personal experiences:

The church-based program we used did use of lot of young adult church members teaching. They were nice, but they really knew nothing about early childhood education. Most of the crafts DS brought home had clearly been done by the teachers not the kids. The discipline was spotty and the classrooms chaotic. DS hated it there. I'm not suggesting that this is the norm; I only want to point out the importance of visiting.

DH's job had a YMCA affiliated preschool program that DS adored. All the teachers had early childhood ed degrees or were in training. They paid well and there was very little turn-over. The teachers really got the kids and the discipline was fair and consistant. They actually taught DS how to behave so as not to be bullied (as well as giving appropriate consequences to the bullies). I don't know about all YMCA programs, but ours was fabulous.

You might also look into parent co-op preschools. I know of some that are fabulous and very affordable. Heck, you could even start your own.

Good luck!

DS, now 5 had attended a YMCA based program for the last three years. It started out as "mommie-and-me" style and we just got done with 3-day/week program. It was a lot like Kriston described. For us it was definitely social oriented and to some degree "getting institutionalized" (I mean that in a good way of getting acclimated to school). We found this to be a very positive experience for us. DS5 just picks stuff up on his own so we didn't worry about what the preschool was teaching in the academically sense.

JB

Good point, acs. Our church program was accredited and had degreed early-childhood ed teachers who do this for a career. I agree that the sort of church-based program you describe wouldn't be one I'd want to pay for.

I too recommend a school which doesn't too much academics stuff. Now, pretty much every preschool will tell you that they teach colors, shapes, numbers, letters, and such. Simply because parents expect them to do so. It's all about how much time is spent on this. If teaching colors means having red day, when you come in red t-shirt, do red art, have red snack, and bring something red for show & tell then it most likely will be fun for any child even if the child already knows the color (which is mostly the case anyway)

DS5 was in such a preschool and it was great. Yes, they did a letter of the week, but he loved coming up with unusual things for show & tell. The teacher let him read to the other kids and she did understood that he was gifted. She talked to me about grade skipping, early college entrance, and different options for him.

They learned about space and other things, but it was only a small part of the day. DS5 took it as an opportunity to introduce dwarf planets to the other kids and the teacher Most of the day was spent playing with others and DS5 had great time there.

DS4 went to Montessori last year. Not a good year. They didn't get him, they didn't understand that fine motor skills of 3 year old can be no match for his knowledge. No academics is better than wrong academics is all I have to say. Next year he will go to the preschool his older brother went to. He will have more fun there and he can get all the academics his heart desires at home.

Find a place you are comfortable with and where you think your daughter will have fun and be happy.