Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Need some more suggestions(iep, 504)...

We had a meeting with the school recently. We submitted the private neuropsych report in entirety and the school acknowledged the positive/negative aspects of my child. The school wants to do another evaluation, to offer services based on results. My question is this : does the school really need to do this ? They did say that if he does well, then an IEP will not be given, but a 504 will be given. I don't think any gifted services will be offered, though the teacher can, perhaps, differentiate in the classroom (this will depend on the teacher).

I was also wondering : is it possible to set up a 504 now, while the school continues its evaluation ? Right now, the school said that the teacher will carry out all modifications (there were 4 areas identified), and they don't think a formal 504 is needed. My kid is also scheduled to end the social skills pull out they have going on; they did say that another counselor can work one-on-one with my child. This sounds fantastic, but the actual practice will not be possible (as in, there will be no one guiding him through it).

Are social skills groups not offered as part of 504 ?

Thanks in advance.

I apologize for not remembering what was in your private neuropsych. The school does not necessarily need to do additional evaluation, but it depends on the contents of the private eval. For example, many neuropsychs do academic screening only, using very sketchy (not bad, but really appropriate only for cursory screening) instruments like the WRAT. When that is the case, it is entirely appropriate for the school to offer additional achievement testing, so that all of the IDEA academic deficit areas are assessed. Something similar can happen with cognitive testing, especially as neuropsychs often pick and choose subtests to address specific functions, and may not end up with a complete battery of anything in particular. If the testing is not recent, a school may wish to re-assess all the relevant major areas of learning ability, academic achievement, executive function, and social-emotional development.

If the school has already come to an agreement that there is a qualifying disability, then, yes, you can write a 504 immediately. Also, did you have an initial IEP meeting based on the neuropsych? If so, was an extended evaluation written? This is a temporary IEP that can be written in some states, in which the team agrees that the student most likely has a qualifying disability, but additional evaluation is needed to clarify the appropriate services. The extended eval IEP usually names a specific (6 to 8 weeks, typically) deadline for reconvening to finalize the IEP. The temporary IEP allows for accommodations and some services to begin immediately on signing.

Social skills groups are kind of a grey area. I used to run social skills groups that included non-referred children (not identified with an IEP, 504, or even an ICAP/DCAP/student assistance plan). I've also facilitated lunch/friendship groups with fluid membership that included both referred and non-referred students. So hypothetically, a plan is not necessary for a social skills group. But this depends on whether the school runs groups that include non-disabled children. If they already do, then there is no particular reason either a 504 or IEP is needed for that service. If all of their groups are restricted to students identified with disabilities, then including a single student not formally identified as having a disability lays them open to citations for placing them in a special ed setting inappropriately.

The "evaluation" the school needs to do is slightly different than a private diagnostic evaluation. What you have from the neuropsych gives you a diagnosis and a suggested plan of remediation/accommodations. The school then needs to complete an "IEP eligibility" evaluation in which they determine if your ds is eligible for services under an IEP (i.e., individualized educational services). This isn't exactly the same as getting a diagnosis of dyslexia/dysgraphia/etc - instead, it's looking at ability to function in the academic setting, and if there are challenges determining what areas they fall under, such as "Specific Learning Disability Reading" etc. You can find all the categories under which a student can qualify either in your school district SPED handbook or at wrightslaw or your state's education website.

Typically an IEP eligibility evaluation includes testing, but it's quite possible that your ds' very recent testing from the private neuropsych can be used in lieu of ability/achievement/etc testing through the school. It's possible they may want to tag on additional testing (OT, SLP, etc) depending on what would be beneficial in understanding or further defining your ds' needs and challenges.

Have you had the "IEP eligibility" meeting yet? Is that where you were told about the additional testing? If it was an IEP eligibility meeting, they should have filled out a form checking off the areas they would test/assess and you would have signed off on it. Do you have a copy of the form that includes a checkbox for things like cognitive/achievement/OT/SLP/hearing/etc? If you compare what is listed on this form to the testing done by the neuorpsych then you should be able to see if there is any type of repeat testing planned.



Then they are at least acknowledging that your ds has a disability and needs accommodations for it in the classroom and most likely on testing. There will be a certain period of time it will take to complete the school's additional testing (did they give you a time period? It's legally required to be completed in a certain amount of time). During that time, I'd suggest you get to know everything you can about your ds' challenges, how they impact him in the classroom, and what accommodations and remediation he needs. (I know you're already doing that! sorry if it sounds redundant and obvious :)). There will be another meeting after the school's eval is complete, and that will be the meeting in which the *team* decides if your ds qualifies for services under an IEP. *TEAM* is the key concept here - the team should include you (parents), your ds' teacher(s), the school psych, school SPED staff, and any other relevant evaluators such as OT etc. You might want to consider consulting with an advocate prior to this meeting - there are parent advocate groups in many locations who will help you navigate this process at no charge. OTOH, even if you have to pay, having a skilled advocate who knows and understands your local school district well might be invaluable.

I'd also suggest getting used to using specific language when talking to the school - for instance, if they are literally saying "if he does well then an IEP will not be given" - that's technically incorrect. What exactly does "doing well" on testing mean? When you respond, keep the verbiage focused on "the testing shows a gap in ...." or a "weakness in ..." etc, be able to point to the specific data in the testing that shows that. State that he has a diagnosis of "..." and that this is clearly impacting his ability to access his education because of "..." etc. State how the testing shows he has a need for indivualized educational services (if he does). Remember that it's not about "doing well" on testing - it's about understanding the educational needs of your child. I found it really helpful when advocating for my ds to have a few stock responses that I replied with that summed up what ds' challenges were and why he *did* qualify. We had a very difficult school situation in that our school was determined to not offer services - but when you have a valid case for a student who does qualify, if you keep it simple, don't let emotions get in the way, and try your best to keep the conversations with the school focused and on track, you should be able to advocate successfully. I think it's really key to realize that your school has already said he will get a 504 plan - that means they do identify him as a student with a disability.

One other thing though - it will be very important to understand your state's guidelines to qualify for an IEP (this is an area where the advice of an advocate can be very helpful). The school isn't bound by those guidelines (as in, they can choose to qualify a child who technically doesn't meet them), but knowing them is key to understanding how to successfully advocate when the school is saying things like "if he does well he won't qualify".


I do hope your ds will be able to either receive gifted services or differentiation of some type, but I also want to encourage you to focus on the 2nd e at this point too - if you can really concentrate on helping your ds learn how to cope with and work around his challenges while he's in early elementary, you'll pave the way for him to be self-confident and able to handle the challenges that will lay ahead of him in his education, which in turn will mean he'll be able to take off and fly in gifted/accelerated programs in a few years.

The one caveat I'll add to that is complicated though - we found our ds responded much better and more quickly to remediation when it was given at the appropriate intellectual level.


This is probably ok for now. There will be a time limit on the evaluation. I'd just keep watching closely and make sure that your ds receives the modifications and accommodations that have been agreed on, and if not, put it in writing.


Did your ds already have an IEP? If not, how did the social skills pull-out work? Was he pulled out of class with another student? If he had an IEP, has he met his social skills goals? What needs were identified when he qualified originally? I'd dig into the details of what they are proposing.


They generally aren't in our school district. If you feel he needs the social skills pullout, I'd gather all the evidence/observations/testing that you have that supports the need, and use that as evidence that he needs IEP services.

Let us know what happens!

polarbear

Aeh, polarbear - huge thank you. I find your posts very, very useful. Polarbear, I especially find the stock responses/language part very helpful. I should work on that, for sure.


The neuropsych administered WISC, SRS, Conner's, Beery VMI, Woodcock Johnson, ADOS, BASC and three more tests I don't recall on the top of my head. The school has accepted the WJ scores, but they want to do another IQ test (is the WISC not good enough ?). I am not sure why they want to do another test. We actually did the eval through a good hospital, and the eval was quite extensive.


Yes, we did have an initial IEP meeting to discuss what should be tested further (OT, SLP evals are two areas I requested, in addition to a list of things I wanted to appear in the final IEP). What is an extended evaluation ?


Polarbear, yes, the school is more than willing to use the neuropsych's report and results and test data. They readily recognized his strengths and challenges.They are also willing to tag on additional testing. I am wondering about why they would want to administer another IQ test. It does not make much sense to me, why they'd take achievement and IQ scores from the neuropsych's report, and then tag on another IQ test (they will not repear the WISC, but use something else). Is this standard ?

I agree with everything else they are asking me to sign off, just that administering another IQ test with a relatively short gap from the neuropsych's testing makes me wonder why. So, I haven't yet signed off on the form we received yesterday.

I am also somewhat glad that they will offer a 504, even if he does well (though what that means, I have to research, you are absolutely right on that point).


This is very valuable advice. Yes, the school has acknowledged that he has a disability and that they will give a 504 (at the very least). His current teacher has a lot of structure (she's doing it on her own, for now) and that really seems to be helping.


Yes, I agree with this. I actually said so in the meeting yesterday - that it is more important now to remediate than to think that he's gifted. He'll always need to work on and deal with some parts, given the nature of his disability, but I do think he should develop healthy coping mechanisms or work around his challenges, provided he gets help.


No, he does not have an IEP. He got social skills pull-out on the lines aeh mentioned above [From aeh. I used to run social skills groups that included non-referred children (not identified with an IEP, 504, or even an ICAP/DCAP/student assistance plan). I've also facilitated lunch/friendship groups with fluid membership that included both referred and non-referred students. So hypothetically, a plan is not necessary for a social skills group. But this depends on whether the school runs groups that include non-disabled children. If they already do, then there is no particular reason either a 504 or IEP is needed for that service. If all of their groups are restricted to students identified with disabilities, then including a single student not formally identified as having a disability lays them open to citations for placing them in a special ed setting inappropriately.].

He was pulled out based on his teacher's observations and received this service. I was hoping he could continue this while the IEP eval is in progress, but apparently they only get a set # of sessions. I don't think he's close to meeting his goal.

I am really glad and feel blessed to live in a good school district which seems to support him. I really want that to continue, and hope it does, even though we are in the early stages of the IEP journey.

That's fairly extensive testing. Not sure why they want to re-do the cognitive assessment, but I can speculate that they might use an aptitude-achievement discrepancy formula that may require a specific cognitive instrument to be used (for the regression or linking tables). WISC/WJ is not the most common pairing for ap/ach discrepancy. (The publisher provides linking studies for WISC/WIAT and WISC/KTEA.) There are normative tables for WJ/WJ, and linking studies for SB/WJ. So that might be it. Or the neuropsych may not have administered the entire WISC (not unusual for NPs), after obtaining sufficient information, and the school wants a comprehensive cognitive battery (say, for the above ap/ach discrepancy, or PSW (pattern of strengths and weaknesses)).

An extended eval is a mutually-agreed on additional time to assess other areas, based on questions that arose during the initial evaluation process. In the meantime, an IEP is written so that services can begin immediately on signature, without waiting for the additional evaluations to be completed. This is an option when there is agreement on eligibility, but uncertainty about specific services. Some states have set procedures for this.

aeh, thanks. The school has accepted the private eval results, and are only doing those tests that the neuropsych/we have requested for. The school did state that they need to do their own evaluation, and only then offer services through an IEP (if he qualifies). Otherwise, they will just offer him a 504.

I am trying to think ahead/concurrently when the school is doing their own eval - and I wonder about this aspect: what do parents who have a full-time job do, as far as private therapies or social skills groups are concerned, with respect to their child ?The people I've met at my sons school have flexible workhours which enables them to be with their kids late afternoon, and are able to squeeze therapies in. Any ideas ?

Sometimes therapists can meet at other times, like when home-based services occur through visiting nurse agencies. Ask area hospitals and clinics about weekend morning hours. Hospital/agency-run outpatient social skills groups often meet in the evening.