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DS6: People keep telling me I'm too young to read Harry Potter.
Me: Hmm. Like who?
DS6: Mrs. X. She saaid I shouldn't read it. She says I can't understand it.

Guess who Mrs. X is?


No, not his teacher. (She would never say that.) The effing SCHOOL LIBRARIAN.

Lady--((( censored remark)))

(I told him, "If Mrs. X ever gives you trouble about books, ask her to talk to your teacher about it." Trust me, his teacher is on board, and a protector of my boy.)

Don't you wish he could respond......

"Oh Mrs X, I don't find it difficult. If you are having trouble, I would be happy and explain any difficult bits to you."

Hah!

Ha. My daughter is reading the Epilogue for the first time literally right now. She's seven and has understood perfectly. That's lousy.

I don't get this on any level. I read many age inappropriate books (someone probably should have stopped me - I had an appetite for horror) - nobody especially librarians batted an eyelid. I think if the book is in the library it's there to be read, it doesn't really matter who reads it does it?

I agree with the violence part I guess. But for sex, I think being exposed to these ideas before I was "ready" prob did me good in terms of being more aware of potential pitfalls. Books tend to explain the emotional side of sex in a way that films just can't, and in this day and age children are exposed to so much digitally that I think a good book with sex in context could be seen as very valuable.

I think latest research in NZ showed kids as young as 11 were exposed to online pornography so I don't think they'd be learning anything new except perhaps the issues surrounding sex. I think these sorts of books are selected by kids who are either at the recommended age or gifted and therefore bring the necessary maturity to decipher the material - or gain it from the reading.

I think a kid who is too young to absorb this sort of material would probably lose interest in the book as a whole before reaching any lewd parts. My 2 cents anyway

I already had to get special permission for him to check out chapter books at all. (His teacher did that for me.) Last year, he wasn't allowed to check out books, period. (Kindergarteners can't.)

I know this sounds kind of gross, but teachers at the school knows DS at this point. The music teacher suggested he skip a grade--the music teacher. He is an innocent, talkative extrovert who makes his abilities obvious. To say this to him suggests that this is the kind of adult who wants to bring kids down a peg or who just does not believe giftedness is a thing.

The teacher has let slip a few comments regarding this librarian. It's sad. Librarians are my favorite kind of people, usually.

But I don't even think she should advise of comprehension level needed--to him? He doesn't know his reading level. Furthermore, the librarian sure as heck doesn't know his reading level.

As a parent, I've sometimes said, "That book might be kind of hard for you," but that's with an intimate familiarity of what my kids can read. I would not say "You can't understand that" because that's a jerky thing to say. I could tell it hurt his feelings and confused him a bit. He asked me if there are other 6-year-olds who can read Harry Potter, and I told him that YES, there are.

Right, I know (didn't mean to sound accustaory) but he doesn't know his level...KWIM? He just knows he can basically read whatever he picks up in the children's section. "Harry Potter is a pretty hard book...do you feel like you understand it?" would have been much better, though.

But the fact is, she doesn't have the knowledge to predict whether it's too hard for him. Any book could be hard for any student, or not. Maybe (to be generous here) she means that he's inherently too young to emotionally comprehend some of the themes. I agree, but this could be said about most children up to the teen years when it comes the later HP books, and I don't think she's telling them ALL they can't understand it.

While I was still in my single digits, I read a wide range of books, including systematic theology, eschatology, lots of sci fantasy, and whatever the editors of Reader's Digest Condensed Books selected. I think that, for the most part, the content which I was not emotionally mature enough to absorb just went over my head.

I tend to think that children's understanding of age-inappropriate themes and images in books (however you define age-inappropriate) is partially limited by their real-life experience of those themes, and their sensory experience of the images. If your experience does not include a related traumatic or explicit situation, the words you read are more academic, rather than resonating intimately with the actual emotional experience that you have had.

The irony, of course, is that after a year's pause, we just allowed him to move on to book 4 of HP (we had concerns about the deaths and frightening themes). But I don't think that was the librarian's issue, somehow....

I imagine the librarian was acting on a supposed (imagined) community standard about what parents want their kids reading-- maturity as well as difficulty.

Agree with AEH-- my kids really do put books they encounter down if the content is beyond what they want to process emotionally right then. I imagine that not all kids do, so those families might need explicit rules. We haven't needed them.

(And I would despair of enforcing that sort of rules around here in any case... the kids will read what they find...)

This is so strange to me (and is every time a thread like this starts). I was given free reign of the school libraries when I was growing up in small town America and also was able to roam and check out books in our small public library. I can't recall anyone ever saying a word about something not being a book I could check out. (My mom, on the other hand, did forbid a few, but not many. She should have hidden some of the books on her own shelves, since I read a few sneakily that were definitely not right for me subject-wise, think nuns being murdered in the Congo) I was really into some non-fiction subjects that wouldn't have had much available in the children's sections.

DS8 is at a Catholic school and also seems to be able to check out whatever he likes. At our wonderful public library, the librarians have walked us to the "adult" section when books were there that DS wanted or might like. I'm just shaking my head that a librarian thinks it is her/his job to play book cop.

I thought the good thing about reading is that the age inappropriate stuff will just go over their head and they can still enjoy much of the book. Unlike movie or TV that can expose kids to things they should not see.

That said, I have not started my son on Harry Potter despite being a big fan myself. For that matter, I have not even showed him Finding Nemo. He found the Penguins in Madagascar scary. I cannot imagine he would not be scared by Happy Potter.

I strongly advised DD against one book when she was 7 (Diary of Anne Frank) and as I say, we put the later books of HP on pause for DS. That was based on incidents with him getting sad or scared with some other media. At this point, DD10 can kind of read whatever, though I may tell her the content of a book if I think she won't react well (eg: Hunger Games, which she chose not to read after I described it). I just moved her into the YA section, which has me slightly concerned, but she's pretty great about talking to me about stuff.

Did anyone else think of thestrals when they read this, or just me?

The later HP books do contain violence and horror. While 1-3rd books are written for the 8-12 range, the later books are teen in content.

That said that librarian shouldn't be restricting and making that decision. When my son was in elementary the library had this rule that K-2nd grade kids had their section and were steered towards selecting books from that part of the library. But they were supposed to take out one book from their AR reading level and so those who had higher levels were allowed in the upper stacks. One of my volunteer jobs in K was to take the 'advanced' readers and help them select books in the library. I got questioned the first time by the librarian but she never told the kids they couldn't check out any books.

just want to put it out there that no I don't believe in exposing children to sexual content, my kids will be sheltered for as long as I can control it - however.....

At a primary school library there will be no books containing this sort of thing. At intermediate and high school, yes of course there will, and I have to repeat, if your kid is attending public intermediate or high school they are getting nothing new from those books. I agree 100% with what Aeh says about the info being academic.

As for the public library - if you have a child under 12, are you or a responsible adult not with them? Might just be me because my kids aren't at that age but I can't imagine my 11 year old making the trip to the library these days by herself. Of course we do not have reliable public transport. I do know that our library has a system where notes can be put on a library account - so if I want I can add one that says, please explain that there is adult content in a book before DD checks it out - or whatever.

I agree that as a parent you should monitor what your child is reading and provide thoughtful feedback/advice about the suitability of the book. I think we need to let our kids know that it's ok to start a book and not finish it, and questions they might like to ask before choosing a book.

I think it's helpful for a younger child choosing a book from the older section to say - I've chosen To Kill a Mockingbird. I can see it's about racial tension (or taxidermy), is there anything that you think might upset me in this book. Or in my case as an 8 year old reading The Amityville horror (never checking it out from the library because I KNEW it was not appropriate) - I would have benefited from someone saying, I know it says true story but it really is just a very scary story and it will give you nightmares and when you are 40 if you see red lights outside your window you'll have flashbacks. I stil would have read it, but maybe I wouldn't have been quite so terrified!

I think learning to self censor is such an important thing to do. Today's kids need this skill more than we ever did, to be able to turn on the internet, and not click on a link or search a particular term is something that they find hard to do and they are becoming traumatised through images they are definitely not ready (and I would argue never should be ready) to view.

By keeping them young and not letting them explore their limits of what they find suitable or not, too adult, too scary, upsetting, uncomfortable, sexual or confusing we are setting them up for a big fall. I want my kids to know before they see objectionable stuff if it is going to be upsetting for them and that comes from testing the waters a little. Not every kid is going to want to read age inappropriate material and that's great. But I think with a little guidance the child doesn't have to face being blindsided with traumatic material.

I don't know what today's equivalent is but where would some us be without Judy Blume? I remember reading Forever at 11 and I think it was pretty instrumental in helping me make good choices when it came to boys.

Anyway re the OP, your librarian needs to pull her head in.

My kids attended a K-8 school. So the library contained books that went well into high school literature. Even the elementary schools around here go K-6. Advanced 6th grader readers should have access to teen material & 'adult' reading level books. So I wouldn't say that a elementary library might not have books with mature content in them. I actually sure hope they do.

I really agree with this. Good points, especially regarding the Internet.

Re Harry Potter, I think due to the popularity of the books, we all know the content and that later books are dark and contain scary and sad parts. But many, many children's books that are less widely known also do. (DD read some especially grim historical fiction in school in 2nd and 3rd grade--and that was based on reality.) Some of them are aimed much younger than HP. I find some of the worry about HP a little misplaced and suspect it comes about because as adults, we're likely to have actually read those books.

We actually have both the teacher and the librarian towing the "age appropriate" line. DS7 has been incensed that they will only let him read "stupid baby books."

BUT - somehow DS cracked the code the other day. He tried for the hundredth time to check out a Percy Jackson book. Librarian said "no ... age appropriate ... reading level ... blah, blah, blah." DS - in an astonishing moment of self help said "can I read you some pages?" Apparently he read a few pages, and then the librarian talked to him about some of the content that could be troubling, and then somehow was satisfied! So the book came home.

Teacher, however, still will not let DS have the book in his book bag or read it in class. There he is still stuck with "stupid baby books." Ah well - at least he can go to the library at lunch.

And he is a great self-censor, knows when something is upsetting and just drops it. E.g. - he got up and demanded to leave the classroom when his K teacher started to read the third version of Hansel and Gretel. "DON'T YOU REALIZE THEY ARE BURNING THAT LADY ALIVE! WHY ARE YOU READING US THIS HORRIBLE STORY?"

Related note - DS has been asking me why I see violent movies if I don't like violence (e.g., DH and I saw Hunger Games over the holiday). I told him that there are stories that are valuable that have violence in them. I pointed out that you can't have a book about war without violence in it.

Then we talked about learning about ourselves and others through stories. Even learning about the hard stuff.

Then we discussed the expression "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Then we discussed the fact that I still cover my eyes in the violent parts (true).

I'm sure we aren't done with this conversation. But for DS - it helps to understand that violence in stories - and how people deal with it - are useful for illustrating part of the human condition.

Sue
P.S. And yes - chicken that I am - I'm glad the questions about love and sex haven't really come up yet.

Um, no, I confess I thought about sex...

Actually, my 8 year old does hang out at the public library by himself. It's a one room suburban division housed in the elementary school where he happens to have music lessons, and he goes there after his lessons to wait to be picked up whenever it is convenient for us. In theory, I could control what he checks out when I pick him up, but in fact he is too anxious to be adventurous, and would hardly move out children's nonfiction or beyond the famous five if I did not explicitly encourage him. I have to admit that I'd want to be given a heads up by the librarian if she thought he was checking out anything she considered unsuitable, but of course it isn't her decision, it would make me mad if a school librarian felt it incumbent upon her to enforce grade levels! Isn't this the school that's also houses the districts gifted program his sister is already at?! She should be familiar with out of level readers!

How utterly strange. If a book is too difficult for a child, presumably he'll figure that out in short order by actually reading it. Why would the librarian even intervene at all? It's not like an elementary library will be stocking erotic or graphically violent literature.

DS came home with basically the same books from the school library for 3 years (JK, SK and grade 1). At one point I asked him why and he said he was only allowed to pick from a limited section which were all baby books so he stopped looking. They never did book reports on those books or anything so it didn't matter that he never read any of them. We had more pressing issues so I never brought it up.

Last year they finally let him take out a book from anywhere in the library. It was like Christmas day!!!! He was so excited to be allowed into the non-fiction section.

During all of this we just went to the public library. That and he would dig through our bookshelves at home. He would often make us read our old university physics books for bedtime stories.

Yes. I know! It's not like she's never met a gifted reader before.

Here's the funny part: I mentioned it to his teacher, without the name of the book, and the librarian copped only to withholding a *different* book (for being "inappropriate"). Good grief.

I'm depressed that this is a common practice. It makes me wonder if this is taught to librarians?

This has been our experience. DD was 7 when she finished reading Harry Potter independently and decided to move on to Hunger Games... but HP had been bedtime stories since she was 5, with her looking over my shoulder, so all of the harder words were familiar, and I'd had a chance to explain anything new. She came across too many unknown terms in Hunger Games (she pointed out "apothecary" as an example), and she decided to move on to something else.

I think that librarians are often trying to protect the children from a confidence setback. DD did have that kind of experience, but we were quick to point out how quickly she was learning, and that this book may be too hard now, but that's only a temporary condition.

Fast forwarding two years, she probably finished off Catching Fire last night before lights-out.

Um, no. These bizarre stories are really hard to read, and help remind me that however frustrating our school situation is there are things to be thankful for. I/my kids have never encountered any limitations on book choices; we have found the opposite, in that the librarians we know, both at school and in the public libraries around here are happy to listen and help kids find what they are looking for. We have found this to be true in classroom libraries, as well.

Independent reading has got to be the easiest way to accommodate different abilities in the elementary classroom- thank goodness some teachers (and librarians) get that, and sorry to those of you who have to work with those who don't get it.

Thanks - I think this is exactly the point I was trying to make.

btw school in NZ (public anyway) does 1-5 so kids are 5 to 10 years of age, def no older kids materials in the library, but there is harry potter, LOTR etc.

H
Thankfully, no. Our public librarian has been a champion for DS ever since he regaled her with a discussion of Cretaceous frogs around 18 months old. When he started reading a bit a few months later, she saved an awesome new book about a snake who contorts his body into words for DS. That's how a beautiful relationship began!

Precisely.

DD is quite imaginative, but "disturbing themes" don't really bother her all that viscerally-- beyond what she is already thinking about, I mean. If she is already thinking about what it means to be dispossessed, homeless, or unloved-- well, then, she's not going to be MORE traumatized by reading about it.

I'm a strong believer in bibliotherapy on some level, though, so there is that. Aeh and Dee Dee's posts sum up my feelings here.

I'm so glad that our local librarians never took this kind of stance with my DD.

I remember being in the fifth grade and STILL having to do that in my classroom. I'd read all the (interesting) books by third grade and had to reread them all.
I was a strangely compliant child considering my stubbornness and didn't even think to say anything. Teaching your kids they can read anything regardless of what the librarian says truly does a lot more than you'd think.
(In retrospect, I really wonder why I didn't say anything...it was another classic gifted-vent: the teacher was supposed to talk to the kids during reading every week and somehow only got to me once...)

I read books now that I don't completely understand. It's how I keep learning.

Our DD self edits. If the book is disturbing or incomprehensible it gets put aside for now. I only questioned her once when she wanted to read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime aged 9. I read it first. It was an opportunity to discuss the use of swearing as a textual device. DD doesn't swear, then or now but she understands better why others might.

It is interesting that with DDs next grade skip the only concern of the English Head was that she would be exposed to topics like inter family homicide when they study the Classics! The Head of English knows nothing about DD apart from the fact that she looks quiet and sweet, not that she has been ready adult books for years. I was more worried about her skills in comparative essays and literary analysis which the school has been slow to teach.

Well, but just because we have encountered great librarians (us too) doesn't mean that this isn't being taught in library school these days. It may be part of the pedagogy for school librarians (I wouldn't think public librarians would get the same emphasis) because part of their role is seen as developing literacy, etc, and as we know, party line for teachers and educators in many cases is to keep kids reading at their level in educational contexts. The idea is presumably to avoid poor comprehension and discouragement.

Here is a thread demonstrating the educator POV on reading Harry Potter in first grade (DS is in first). http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=280121

Wow, this was enlightening:
Translation: "I will poke and pry at this child until I find something they're not perfect at, and then I will torture the child over that one thing so that I don't have to do any acceleration. And so that I don't have to admit to the parent that I'm not the Overlord of Pedagogy."

I don't think this kind of thing is new, I remember at the public library of my youth until a certain age (not sure maybe 10 or 12) one couldn't check out books with a children's library card. And since I was allowed/encouraged go to the library by myself on my bike after school. It never even occurred to me to try as until 7th grade I was always a very compliant child. My parents probably would have let me if I'd asked, they certainly put no restrictions on my reading any book they had in the home.

In the cities yes but a lot of rural schools go to year 8 as do the catholic schools in my city.

What an interesting shift in perspective!
Both seeing this teacher erect her walls, pushing back at the parent and making judgements about her without actually having tested the child or bothered to check the level for HP on a website...but also understanding that she does need control over what the children are reading and learning.
I understand that she feels uncomfortable letting a kid read HP for guided reading before she knows him a little better, because it will not be appropriate for every kid. but she seems to go into this with a very fixed mindset that she does not even want to find out that it might be.
I'd imagine this is extremely common among teachers, particularly in elementary school. What would be the right strategy for the parent I wonder? (Assuming the kid is actually perfectly ready and HP is a great choice for the kid to do the extension activities with the curriculum demands, which may or may not be the case....
Hey, I'm from a school system that starts out first grade teaching the alphabet. I'd probably have wept with joy if I had been allowed to do extension activities with anything resembling an actual book...

To be fair, there does appear to be a first grade teacher--and likely parent of an advanced learner--who comments further down the thread that teachers can allow for both teacher-selected texts and parent/student-selected texts in school, combining the mandate to cover the state curriculum with meeting the student at her reading level.

Though that is only one voice out of many others opposed.

Certainly, not all teachers are like that...DS has had two who are emphatically not, bless their souls. But it's interesting, and a little scary, to see behind the curtain.

Honestly, before I had a child who could read this well this young (DS read the Narnia series at 4, for instance) I probably would have been skeptical that children like this existed. I read at 4, too--but not Narnia. But the thing that bothers me is that teachers ought to be open to the idea of difference, right? You ought to go in there with an open mind (you may be allowed to be skeptical, a bit) and see what the child can do. You can't just be so damned reactionary.

Here are 5 years of media checking out by my son at school

k- not allowed to check out/bring home books (teacher on disability and maternity leave most of first half of year) went to media center for story time, time to read books pulled by the specialist on the tables afterwards, teacher checked out to the classroom up to 50 books for classroom reading. I took him to public library (or went by myself) weekly basis for appropriate reading material for him and bedtime stories I read to him. When teacher came back assessed him at DRA level of 40 and his needs were met by teacher instructionally and books available and enrichment group. I don't know if they checked out books or not when she came back...he didn't bring them home.

1-new school with dual language program...teachers didn't agree with DRA of 40 from previous school. Media rule was each week check out one book in Spanish, one picture book around first grade level, one informational book. I went in and got a notation on his card that he could chose a picture book or a chapter book up to third or fourth grade level. He spent the rest of the year reading every Geronimo Stilton and goosebump book in the school media center. No one helped him at the school with selection so I continued to support him after school at the public library.

Summer in between first and second grade he read up a storm over a hundred books. About 2 weeks into school year I took a huge shopping bag full of books he had read and a list of those we had checked out of the library...the show and tell was to explain that he could read any level and that he was a voracious reader. Nobody was to put Baby in a corner. About two months later staffed gifted.

2-from that conversation wasn't limited and checked out one Spanish book, one informational, and one his choice (other kids had to pick in their assessed AR range). They tracked AR points and he won out of the entire school (beating 3rd, 4th and 5th graders).

3rd grade he skipped

4th grade same as second

5th grade same

I had to supplement with public library and our own rules until we were all on the same page in the second grade. But really, I still have to now, just less. And he is a media center helper this year and she lets them get extra books above the three book limits if she knows they are fast readers and he is in there every morning so he returns and picked out books all the time.

I guess while there were some restrictions in my kids library. I just didn't rely on the school library being their man source of books, most of my kids read books that I'd bought either through Scholastic book club or the excellent local children's book shop nearby. In school they were allowed to take out a book in their AR level for K-3rd and one free choice. Honestly my son was mostly taking out non-fiction books in K-2nd grade. One of the ways that I managed to make sure he could check out appropriate books was I volunteered to help at library time and got to know the librarians and the library that way.

That is what I found sad about it-- that the teacher(s) didn't seem to consider the harm that they'd be doing by shutting this child down-- if it WERE legit.

That wouldn't be a neutral thing, and might set the tone for "school" for both students and parents not only for the year, but for years in the future.

Oh, the school library is generally a minor source of books in my kids' lives. However, DS is spending a lot of his school day reading independently at this point (much better than going over phonics!), and is also sent to the libary during class time to check out his own books. So, the librarian actually matters to his life. His teacher is dealing with her for me.

I feel like a couple of people have mentioned this, and it's a nice idea if you can do it, but I can't (I work). And we shouldn't have to...you know?

On two occasions in different years (k and either 1st or 2nd), I had to send a message to the VP saying, effectively, please stop preventing my DD's access to literature, there's nothing in an elementary school library that should be barred to her.

This was a major problem for DD because they wouldn't let her bring any literature from home, anything she read during free time had to come from the school. And since she had a lot of free time...

Thankfully, the gifted teachers have a private library DD is allowed to access, and they're good about keeping it stocked with contemporary literature the kids are interested in, so that's a solved problem now. The only issue we had there was when one of the teachers requested a hand-written, signed note approving DD's access to Harry Potter.

I spent one term (out of a five-quarter sequence) in an elementary ed master's program. I seem to recall that I had four courses (plus field experiences): literacy, numeracy, sociology in the schools, and multicultural topics in education. So we spent half the time talking about social justice issues, and the other half on pedagogy. I didn't stick around for the other four terms, so I don't know what they would have gone on to.

So many of these stories, and that thread, are horrifying.

In my credential program they practically laughed at us if we asked about gifted eduction. "Ha! You wish! You don't need to worry about that, you'll be teaching troubled kids and struggling to connect with them etc etc." Of course I ended up teaching nearly all honors/AP and definitely had genius students I (as a newish teacher) struggled to challenge. It would have been nice not to go in with only my own memories of feeling under-challenged in school to guide me.

I recall asking for Les Miserables at the school library and being informed it was not a children's book. The first week of junior high I marched into the library, checked it out, and read it easily. It stretched me in some ways (old-fashioned quirks), but it wasn't difficult vocabulary or content.

There are several kids in DD's second grade class reading Potter now. Some parents will have them stop after a few (which I tried, but DD was desperate! And wasn't disturbed at all. She's stone cold. She loved them! But I guess she gets it's fiction. And she certainly "comprehended" them!)

My son read Harry potter at seven in second grade. I was holding off for third but his teacher actually gave them to him. I tried to stop him at number three but there was no stopping him. Just this year he went back and reread them all at nine years old.

I can't count how many times I reread little women.

Same!

Except, yeah-- my dad was my biblioholic enabler parent.

DD is similarly stone cold-- she quailed at the "giant snake" in the film version of HP2, and it put her off the books for about six months, when she was five. At 7yo, she finished book seven faster than I did. She stayed up all night after the midnight release. Yes. We let her. It was July-- and I don't know how I'd have stopped her.

By the time she was ten, she was happily blazing Dickensian fiction, which is every bit as harrowing as Les Mis. She definitely "gets" that part of things-- for her, she is a person who enjoys vicariously experiencing the full range of the human condition, I'd say. She's been like this since she learned to read. I've never restricted her reading materials other than to mention that something had "sexual content that you might not be comfortable with yet."

I was the one bawling like a baby for Dobby and Snape, by the way.


I'm completely mystified by the assumption that young fluent readers must not be "comprehending" what they are reading. In what sense?? I mean, I can recall DD telling me all about books that she was reading when she was five and six-- so I know that she was really doing it, and really into them.

It's merely a failure of imagination on the judgmental adult's part. Can't imagine a kid who is this different from the norm, can't take the perspective of such a kid, can't flex to see what's happening in front of them instead of what they assume they should see...

Too bad, really.

Yup, only substitute my son for your daughter. But I only encountered it once with his first grade teacher. Everyone else has totally gotten it. Even before me.

If the argument is going to be, "Children shouldn't be exposed to literature until they're mature enough to FULLY UNDERSTAND it," then that argument could be expanded to the point where nobody should ever read Shakespeare, the source material of any religion, or any other documents of significant historical value. For example, most of our serving Congressmen should not be allowed to read the US Constitution, as they clearly don't understand it.

Throw satire into that category, too. There will always be parts that sail over your head the first time through.

Or, perhaps we can just let kids read what they want and assume that they're getting something out of it, or else they'd quit reading it?

Well, I'm sure there ARE part of Harry Potter my son doesn't understand--by which I do NOT mean plot (I periodically ask him about a plot point and he always is correct--he would pass any typical surface reading comp quiz on the books), but deeper themes. DD didn't start to really get the tragedy of Snape until recently, for instance, and neither of them cry when Cedric's father comes out into the arena in the movie (I always do). They are children, and the books are designed to read on many levels. This is why I am happy DD is still re-reading them, and hope DS will as well. It WAS a slight hesitation for me in having him read them so young...just that he would miss some of the deeper meanings. But not that he would not FOLLOW, no.


Right. As I said before, I think special attention (and special hand-wringing) comes about with HP because it is so popular and so many adults have read it and feel like "WELL, but HP is HARD and MEANINGFUL. They can't possibly GET it." Yet of course, many children's books, even those with deceptively simple writing...even picture books...have deep themes that not every child or adult will fully understand or appreciate. Of course, they can generally also be read on another level. This is one of the beauties of children's books.

The librarian sounds dreadful but...we also have to take into account that they have some things working against them. So, let's say Mrs. X gives HP to an interested 1st grader and that child starts to read it right away and then takes it home to his ultra conservative, devoutly religious family. The same family that heard in church on Sunday that witchcraft is a sin. The family freaks out, tells everyone, writes letters, places calls, goes to the school board, etc.
I go to my children's teachers and librarian every single year and give blanket permission for them to read anything they would like. It saves heartache for everyone.

Great point. Our DD's first grade reading group (of 1) was assigned HP, but the library in the same school has no copies of Captain Underpants, due to parent complaints. There was a mom when my kids were in elem who tried to get Geronimo Stilton banned because it contains the word *sexy*. I kid you not.

Then again, my DD's English class is reading Pope Joan right now, historical fiction about a woman who disguises herself as a man and becomes pope during the dark ages; at the end of the book she dies in childbirth. Lots of great ideas for discussion, but I have to admit I am amazed that there have been no parental complaints on this one- I am assuming they haven't read it (or perhaps the parents of the honors level kids are a bit more open-minded?).

Well, but then Harry Potter is a problem for all grades, not just first, and should be on a "parent permission" shelf. Mind you, I feel this is an insanely slippery slope. The number of kids' books with "occult" elements is huge.

The question is whether they provide practical or theoretical tips for creating dark cults, or similar items. They really shouldn't be anywhere.

Just like "how to create nuclear weapons in a suitcase" should not be on the shelf at all.

At some point you realize that some books really have no business existing.

It's not so much a slippery slope, because the real problem is the fact that Harry Potter teaches children how to do real magic.

Yes, an adult told me this with a straight face.

I've validated it up to a certain point, too, because with a swish and flick of a treat, my dog will levitate onto his hind legs.

Just send them over to John Michael Greer's blog (the Archdruid Report).

They can talk about it there.

I'm probably proof positive of why it is unwise to allow girls to become literate in the first place. It's not just that the books are dangerous.

Books aren't dangerous. People reading books are dangerous.