Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Grade Advancement, Middle of Year, PLEASE Help!!!

My son, 7 years old (turns 8 in late March) and in 2nd grade, had his IQ tested in October at the request of my wife and I. Typically in our county they don't test until third grade but we were urged to have him tested by a couple of close friends who have been in the teaching profession for over 20 years each. We got the results back about 2 weeks into December. He ranked 7th out of all the third graders in the county (and he's in 2nd grade). The only reason I mention this is so you will have all the facts before you give me advice.

At that time the person over the AIG program for the entire school system sent an email to my son's principal, teacher, and the AIG person at his school saying that they needed to meet because significant modification was needed for him.

The school system AIG person met with the people mentioned above for two hours today discussing all the possible modifications that they could do for my son.

When I returned her call this afternoon she said they felt like Grade Advancement to 3rd grade would be the best for my son.

My main concern is:
Is this really a good time to be advancing him a grade?
- he has missed almost half of the third grade year
- students are given End of Grade Test for the first time in 3rd grade (missing half the curriculum has me worried he won't do well; which in turn means it may hurt his self esteem and possible placement in higher classes later on)
- how do I catch him up with the curriculum he missed
- how will students in third grade treat him after seeing him move up from 2nd grade

I mentioned some of these concerns and she said that she didn't feel like him catching up would be a problem and they could give him some help in doing so. She said right now he's just spinning his wheels in class, he may even do some of that if moved to 3rd grade, he's explaining the Math to the teacher before she teaches it, and that his teachers say he is easy going/goes with the flow so they felt he would handle the change well.

The county AIG person said that in our meeting (my wife and I, her, teachers, principal) later this week we can discuss all our concerns as well as other options if we (or our son) don't feel comfortable with grade advancement.

I mentioned possibly having him go to 3rd grade for a couple classes but remaining in 2nd grade and she said that was a possibility and something we could look at in more detail.

I would greatly appreciate any help and advice you can give my wife and I on whether grade advancement at this time of year is unwise, what might be other options we should consider, personal experiences with this decision, and any other information you can give to help in our decision!!!

This is a huge decision (my wife and I are almost physically sick over it) and we just want to make sure we look at all the options available, look at each option under a microscope, and decided what is in the best interest of our son.

Thank you very much for your time!!!

TripleB

TripleB - I'm in a rush and really don't have time to give much worthwhile advice, but there is one piece of your concern that I'd think through - the 3rd grade standardized testing - you need to find out if it's actually meaningful in the long run. I don't know anything about where you live, but where we live it really doesn't mean *anything* for any given individual student - so if you were living here, I would take that worry out of the equation all together. What it's used for in my area is to assess school performance, and although parents receive a copy of the results and it stays on the child's school record through elementary school, it's really non-consequential.

I would definitely take into account how your ds feels about school right now - our ds was extremely bored in early-elementary and it's something that he internalized rather than sharing with us at the time... and that came back out in a not-so-great blow-up later on in school. Sorry no time to explain at the moment! Just something to think through.

Best wishes,

polarbear

First, it is remarkable that the school is encouraging this for your son.
That is a good sign, in my estimation.

How about thinking of this as a trial period vs a momentous irreversible decision? Could you suggest that to the school? That may take some pressure off and allow clearer thinking.

Children change classes mid year all the time, sometimes for acceleration (a boy in my son's class was moved up a month or so into the school year), family moves or school changes.

Hi TripleB,

Is the recommendation based on anything else besides an IQ test? and was it a full battery IQ test or a screening type assessment like CogAT? Has your son had any sort of achievement testing done so you have a fair idea of how he might do a grade up? (It sounds like the teacher feels he will be fine or maybe a bit bored even with a grade skip, so there is possible no reason to be concerned, but it's good to have all the facts before making a decision).

If you have access to the Iowa Acceleration Scales, it might ease your mind to fill that out. It is an objective assessment that determines whether a student is a good candidate for acceleration. It is possible that the AIG person used this. I would ask the school if they have it.

What does your son say? If he's asking for this too, that's a good sign. Can you meet the class he would be moving into?

I agree with ConnectingDots - if you can arrange a trial 6-week period, that might ease everyone's minds.

FWIW, my son has done two types of skips -- first he skipped first grade, then mid-year second we found that a grade skip was not enough so he transferred to an accelerated program that worked at least a year ahead. Because generally in elementary, there are so many repetitions of subject matter, there were no real struggles for our son (though his handwriting was pretty bad). It helped a lot to go through the Iowa Acceleration Scales when making that first skip.

ETA: I agree with Polar Bear -- state testing is not important individually for students in our state too.

Oh, another thing. I am guessing that you wouldn't have had your son tested if you didn't suspect something. It sounds like he is recognized by teachers as being very advanced, at least in math. Is he equally advanced in all subjects? I ask because you mentioned possibly just accelerating for a few subjects. If your son is advanced across the board, it makes more sense to skip the full grade/all classes.

Another possible concern is sports or academic contests, which you didn't mention. If your son is very competitive in either sports or you think he might like some academic competitions, you may want to consider the subject acceleration a bit more if you want him to compete with age-mates.

TripleB let's break it down:

You have a highly intelligent child spinning their wheels in second grade.
They need more challenging material and sound like they can not only cope with that but will do well with appropriate work.
The school is advocating a grade skip.
Your child is easy going and happy and the school thinks he will be fine.
As parents you are anxious and looking for the possible downsides. That is not unreasonable but don't let that overwhelm all the positives.
He is skipping the rest of second grade and from your comments, he already knows that work.
It is highly likely he already knows the third grade work. You can check. The teachers can run through the material he has missed with him.
You are concerned about the end of year test but I am not sure what the import of a third grade test is? We don't have that here. Is it really so bad IF he didn't do well. That is a big IF because he still has many months to work up to it.

Our DD skipped into third grade halfway through second. The biggest problem is that the work still wasn't challenging. You may be over rating what third grade entails.

What happens if you don't skip? That isn't a neutral position so make sure you see the negatives in staying put. Are they as scary as the potential downsides of moving forward.

Take a deep breath and get the teachers to run through the third grade material with both you and your son in a meeting. Then you have an idea of whether it will actually be a problem.

Thanks for all your help so far...a lot of fantastic advice with many ideas I hadn't thought of before. Let me try and address all the questions and thoughts one at a time.

@polarbear: In our area the third grade end of grade test helps in other ways than just with teacher evaluations and school evaluations. The two that stand out to me are qualification for the AIG program in our county (the EOG score, teacher recommendation, IQ score, and one other I can't think of) and deciding whether a student passes third grade. I've asked him if he likes school and he truly does...I also asked him if he was learning a lot and he says not really, I already know almost everything we've talked about.

@connectingdots: Yes, we've been very impressed by his school and the three teachers he's had so far...they've really created a true desire for leaning in him. I love your idea of a trial period for the grade advancement. Give it a couple weeks to see how he handles the change and if he feels like third grade is a better fit for him or not. If he chooses to go back to second grade he could always say he went up to third grade to get some needed skills or something.

@st pauli girl: I think the recommendation is based on his InView IQ Test score, the ability he has shown throughout the three years (his current teacher said he was 'labeled or marked' since Kindergarten), and his high ability level through reading test he has been given every since Kindergarten - he maxes out the test when they test for "Reading letter sounds", "Reading whole words", "Reading fluency", "Reading with accuracy", "Retelling a story", and "Instructional reading level." The AIG person today even mentioned some of his scores in Kindergarten. No 'achievement' testing as such that I know of.

I have not talked to my son yet...definitely plan to...but want to wait until my meeting with the school to see what all the options are so I can discuss each with him.

What's funny is that I'm a Math teacher and I think he's much more advanced in reading (got Harry Potter 6 and 7 for Christmas, finished 6 and is half way through 7). I think he's more advanced in reading because he likes it better but also he can push himself in reading more so than learning Math. Having said that, he's pretty advanced in Math as well (adding and subtracting with negatives in Kindergarten).

He has tried 7 sports over the past two years but didn't like any of them enough to repeat any. His athletic abilities definitely aren't up with his intelligence

@ndw: Thank you very much...what you said makes a great deal of since. We've been thinking about the negatives about advancing without ever considering the negatives of leaving him. I guess it's tough because skipping a grade isn't the norm so if it doesn't work out I'll be second guessing myself forever. But then again my son isn't exactly the "norm" either is he?

Thanks for everyone's advice so far and taking the time to respond. It has given me a lot to think about but has really put some things in prospective.

TripleB

I can't give any advice, but I can say my DH and I share your concern!! We have a meeting with our school next week about grade acceleration for DD9. We swing between worry about maturity issues if the skip happens and worry about what will happen if DD doesn't move up. Our DD is very vocal about how awful school is!! She didn't mention it until the end of 3rd grade (last Spring).I was shocked by how much she disliked school, and how unhappy she said she had been for such a long time.
After I read some posts here I will be working on the Iowa Acceleration Scale that some have mentioned. I found a copy of the worksheet online and am interested in what score I come up with.

We just completed a 2-year subject acceleration right before the holidays. Extremely successful so far.

Based on our family's experiences, I'm in favor of midyear changes in placement-- I think it's actually easier to orchestrate, because you can do the "meet the teacher, check it out, see it'll be fine" business in the course of a normal school day if you want to.

You sound a little calmer and more focussed TripleB. It's never easy to make these decisions but it often goes better than you imagine, especially as you are taking a considered approach.

Our DD is not sporty so that was never an issue. Her maturity and executive functioning developed, or were more exposed by each acceleration. We can see her confidence has expanded with the prospect of advancing again this year. It flows into her social skills too.

We offered her a trial of one term, about ten weeks, for this skip. As it turns out, it is unlikely to be needed. A trial needs to be at least 6 weeks to give everyone a fair run. I think the idea of it being a trial just allows all participants to feel more comfortable, especially parents. If you go that path then do it as soon as possible so it doesn't get caught up with concern over the end of year exam.

About the math versus reading....we thought DD was verbally advanced not a math kid until grade 5. Turns out she just didn't have an opportunity to demonstrate math reasoning until then and took off. She hated times tables and rote learning. Lots of kids show different aspects of themselves at different times

"Based on our family's experiences, I'm in favor of midyear changes in placement-- I think it's actually easier to orchestrate, because you can do the "meet the teacher, check it out, see it'll be fine" business in the course of a normal school day if you want to."

Thank you for your advice and I appreciate you mentioning this point. I was told which teacher he would have if he moved to 3rd grade and she is awesome! My daughter had her and I've gone to church with her in the past...she is all about the students! As far as a teacher he could have if moved, she would have been our top pick. She is also the teacher he took the IQ Test with so he's been in her classroom (for only one day though) before. He knows she loves owls (has mentioned that about every time we see an owl on anything) and he said last night that one of his after school buddies is in her class. So if we do chose to advance him to 3rd grade there is already a connection there!


"You sound a little calmer and more focused TripleB. It's never easy to make these decisions but it often goes better than you imagine, especially as you are taking a considered approach."

Thanks...hearing everyone's advice and the fact that others have gone through this with success makes it all seem a little less overwhelming. I appreciate your words of wisdom.

"If you go that path then do it as soon as possible so it doesn't get caught up with concern over the end of year exam."

We are meeting with the school and county AIG person Friday, will listen to all the options. After that our plan is to discuss the options with our son over the weekend and give them a decision on Monday so they can get started as quick as possible.

"About the math versus reading....we thought DD was verbally advanced not a math kid until grade 5. Turns out she just didn't have an opportunity to demonstrate math reasoning until then and took off."

I think you may be right. In his Math right now they are talking about simple word problems and talking about 10 more, 10 less, 100 more, and 100 less than certain numbers. She told them to leave the place blank for 100 less blank because it went into negatives...he puts an answer anyway...I think that's the most latitude he's got as far as showing what he's capable of in Math.


Again, thanks for all the responses.....they have helped more than you realize!!!

TripleB

We are in a similar situation, wondering about a mid year skip from third into fourth grade, at the end of which tracking decisions would be made.

The current consensus for us is subject acceleration in maths, no full skip. We may decide to do a skip at the end of the year into fifth grade of a gifted program in middle school. We have had some oddly conflicting test results which have confused the issue. Also, in our case, DS8 is anxious and has some executive function issues which make any change hard on him, so the idea is as few changes as possible - thus the transition skip, possibly. The school is leery of supporting a grade skip, and we are not confident ourselves what the right thing to do is, thus do not want to force the issue against the schools advice. It is a discombobulating feeling having to make this choice that so few parents have to make, particularly as most schools like to give you the feeling that it is a completely unheard of event and huge experiment and great risk blah blah blah.

In your case it sounds as if the school is fully in favour of the skip, which is rare and thus a great plus. It is highly unlikely they would advocate for a skip unless they were fully confident he'd cope. You'll probably be surprised just how much of the third grade curriculum he's got down already.

I would definitely set up a trial period, because it's good practice, not because a substantial number of grade skippers prefer going back to their old grade - most kids, once they have realized that the mind numbing boredom is substantially alleviated, refuse. But it removes pressure from everyone in the process, most of all from your son, who can be told that as he isn't learning much in second,he can try out third grade and if he likes it, you will ask the school if he can stay - no strings attached, just check it out.

The disconnect in math that you see may have to do with him understanding advanced concepts even though he may not be the fastest or most focused kids in doing addition or recalling maths facts, all that boring elementary school stuff that doesn't have to do so much with maths as a mathematician knows it.

I have another comment re: subject versus full-grade acceleration. When DS10 was in elementary, he did not like to stand out, which also meant he did not like being pulled out for other classes. For him, a full-grade skip was preferable, as he stood out less. Subject acceleration would be great if you have an entire school set up to do this -- main subjects are taught at the same times, all kids go to their levels. But that is rare. The logistics of subject acceleration are generally trickier.

TripleB, from all you have said, I would say you have nothing to worry about re: the skip. Sounds like he would be moving to an amazing teacher, and if she administered the test and believes he may still be underchallenged, I would believe her. That is the risk with highly gifted kids in regularly paced school programs. But if she thinks he might be underchallenged even with a skip, imagine what he's learning now.

Go ahead and make all your lists of pros and cons. Seem there are fewer cons based on the info you've shared, but obviously I am a stranger on the internet. You know your kid.

My son is also not especially sporty, and he didn't do quite as well as the other (older) kids post-skip, but it is doubtful that he would have done very well with agemates. Now in 6th, he can hold his own.

I always felt my DS was stronger in Language Arts than Math, but he does equally well in both (and when we first started asking for differentiation, we used math as it's easier to show the advanced level there). It's hard to predict at a young age what their strengths and interests will be. Sounds like your kiddo does well across the board, which nicely supports a full-grade skip option.

Your DS is going to be skipping one year no matter when the skip takes place. He is likely to miss less substantive curriculum by doing a skip mid-year. I really would not worry about some end-of-year test, especially if it is meant to be at level. Realistically for most high ability students, they should not have trouble with curriculum a year or even two above. The only thing that I would do differently is to let your DS in on what is happening sooner rather than later. I don't think he should be the last to know as I would consider his opinion as important as yours or the school's.

We haven't discussed it with him yet because we want to find out what different options are available to him regarding the differentiation (ie: are there any other options other than moving him to third grade?). My wife and I are meeting with the principal/teachers/top AIG person for our county/etc. this afternoon to find out what all the options are and how the school would implement each of the options.

Once we find out all of the facts then we are going to talk with our son about it and see what he is most comfortable going with.

Again, thanks to everyone for your input.

I'm still nervous but now it's more of an 'excited nervousness'!

TripleB

Good luck at the meeting! I have a someone different view from Quantum re: how important the kid's opinion is in early elementary -- we considered our son's preferences and concerns, but talked him through to what we thought as parents would be the best decision. All families are different.

Though I would agree that a kid who is vehemently opposed to a skip probably should not be skipped. If they get to the point where they will not participate in school/etc. because they are mad about the skip decision, that is not a good outcome. Our son is pretty easy-going and adaptable, so we knew that he'd be fine. In the end, he was in favor of the skip, but we had to talk him over some nerves.

Apropos-- I was just at the elementary school. DS (recently subject-accelerated) is getting high fives in the hall from the kids in the receiving class, 2 years older.

Looks like it worked. Whew.

Awesome! So good to hear a positive story.

Meeting went incredibly well today!!!

In the meeting were the principal, his current teacher, the AIG person at the school, the AIG representative for the entire county, and a lady who administered a 3rd grade practice Math EOG, a 3rd grade practice Reading EOG, and another Reading Assessment to my son today.

He scored 92% on the 3rd grade practice Reading EOG and 80% on the 3rd grade Math EOG. We had mentioned that we were worried about the gaps there may be because of not having the last half of his 2nd grade year and the first half of his 3rd grade year. She said looking at these scores should put our minds at ease...if he can make that percentage on a end of 3rd grade test while only being at the half way point of 2nd grade he doesn't have many gaps and if he did they would work with him to fill those.

They said they wouldn't recommend only pulling him out because he was so advanced he would have to be pulled out for everything.

They went on to say that even if we put him in 3rd grade he's still going to need differentiation made because of how advanced he is. They are going to go ahead and write an AIG plan for him so that he will receive those services and allow him to be a part of the Science Olympiad Team (even though he's too young to compete in the competitions) and the school's afterschool music program.

We went through everything with my son tonight....you should have seen how large his eyes got (from happiness) when I mentioned moving up to third grade. I think it was even more excitement than when he wakes up and sees what Santa Claus brought. He was so happy he couldn't stop smiling until he went to bed about 90 minutes after we talked to him. He's always loved school but I haven't seen this much excitement in his eyes for a while. I think him moving up to 3rd grade is a definite yes in his eyes...therefore in our eyes as well!

Our 2nd semester starts on January 28th (we have three days off between now and then) so the plan is to have the school AIG teacher pull him out of his second grade class some and take him to his third grade classroom a few times over the next two weeks just so he can get a feel for the classroom and expectations. They didn't feel comfortable with a 6 week trial in the classroom (although after seeing his reaction tonight I don't think there could be a problem) so I think this two week problem will be a great trial for him. His 3rd grade teacher will meet with him and get to know him before January 28th.. And then on January 28th he will become a full fledged third grader!

Thanks to all of you for your help...it has been an unbelievable help...my wife and I are so happy about our son being challenged again!!

TripleB

Wonderful TripleB! Your family are all having what sounds like a very positive school experience. I couldn't be happier for you all. From your son's reaction it sounds as though all will not only be well but were more needed than you had imagined. Three cheers to a school that identifies need and responds appropriately. Best wishes for the new semester.

Congratulations! It's so nice to read about acceleration going smoothly.
What's AIG exactly? Accelerated instruction something? How does an AIG plan work, as compared to a GIEP, for instance?

"Wonderful TripleB! Your family are all having what sounds like a very positive school experience. I couldn't be happier for you all. From your son's reaction it sounds as though all will not only be well but were more needed than you had imagined. Three cheers to a school that identifies need and responds appropriately. Best wishes for the new semester."

We are...we have been so blessed by the educators my son has had over the past three years...they have worked so hard to challenge him. Thank you!

Funny story...yesterday before the meeting I looked at a released form of the 3rd grade end of grade Math test and just shook my head because I knew my son wouldn't be able to do but probably 25% of the material on there (practicing reading a lot but never Math)...even told my wife that right before we went into the meeting. Come to find out they had given my son the same exact test and he made 80% on it---completely shocked me.

I appreciate the wishes and all the help!!!


"Congratulations! It's so nice to read about acceleration going smoothly. What's AIG exactly? Accelerated instruction something? How does an AIG plan work, as compared to a GIEP, for instance?Wonderful TripleB! "

Thank you.

AIG stands for 'Academically or Intellectually Gifted'.

I'm not familiar with GIEP but an AIG plan is put in place to make sure gifted children receive the services and differentiation they need.

Specific items can also be written into the plan to allow students to participate in extra curricular activities, even though they aren't old enough...like on my son's, since he is interested in Science and Music they are going to write in his AIG plan that he be allowed (if he chooses) to participate in the Robotics Team, Science Olympiad, and the afterschool Music Program - even though he's not old enough to compete in some of the competitions due to age he can still work with the team and go watch the competitions.

Thanks again for all the well wishes and help---all is much appreciated!!!

TripleB

Sounds cool. But am I right that the IQ test was done by a teacher? Proper IQ tests are done by phychologists at least. In this case it doesn't matter but you may need to redo it if you move or when you change schools.

Thanks!

Yes, the InView IQ Test in our county is given in a classroom setting by a teacher. I believe this is to save money for our public school system...I'm thinking there are probably somewhere between 900 and 1000 3rd graders (and at least 1 second grader) who take the test each year.

I remember when I had mine growing up it was given to me on a one on one basis and had several 'tasks' for me to complete.

But in this case it worked out well. We requested he be tested, even though he was in second grade, he was tested, which threw up red flags and have gotten him the differentiation he needs.

TripleB

TripleB - Excellent news! And a bonus that your son is excited too. Sounds like a great team at the school. Very nice that he will be able to participate in the cool programs too, despite his age. Sounds like a school that "gets" gifted.