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    #199207 08/24/14 07:19 AM
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    venice Offline OP
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    Our DS, who is in fifth grade, was recently denied single subject acceleration in math. Without getting into too much detail, the decision seemed to be political rather than what’s in the best interest of the child. It’s quite evident from test, observation, and his motivation to essentially complete an algebra 1 course on his own, that he needs to be accelerated. Our newest concern arises from statements his math teacher is making to him. When the teacher presents word problems to the class, our son will solve them algebraically. Meaning he will assign a variable, set up an equation, and solve the problem. For some reason, his math teacher is discouraging him from using algebra and/or alternative math techniques such as proportion, percent, and ratios to solve problems. Has anybody experienced this? Is it appropriate for his teacher to be placing restrictions on the methods he uses/chooses to solve math problems? From previous discussions with the administration, I get the distinct feeling that they don’t want him progressing beyond what is being presented in the classroom.

    venice #199208 08/24/14 07:36 AM
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    Yes, we've run into this before in math; the rigid adherence to "protocol" dictated by the pedagogy happening within the confines of the course content.

    On the one hand, it IS important that students master the skills that they are being taught-- as they are presented-- on the other, it's not appropriate to continue drilling students on what they genuinely have total mastery of already.

    I'm going to guess, here, that your math instruction is using a common curriculum such as EveryDay Math or EnVision or something like it-- and they are a spiraling, incoherent MESS, to be kind.

    I'm further going to guess that your math program is aimed at meeting common core standards, and that there is mild to moderate panic about this on the part of administrators and teachers.

    So knowing that, what would I do in your shoes? Find a tactful way of having them decide to test your child regarding mastery of the year's (or maybe even years') learning objectives, and see where he SHOULD be placed.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    venice #199209 08/24/14 07:39 AM
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    Maybe the teacher/school are out of their depth.

    Can you just write off the school math class as a complete waste of time, and have him learn at home? Would a single subject acceleration in math really improve things that much anyway? Would any other school be better?

    venice #199210 08/24/14 07:39 AM
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    There could be a few reasons why the teacher doesn't want your son to solve problems his own way.

    The teacher may be trying to teach a particular method and if your son uses a different method, he is not showing that he has learned the taught method.

    The teacher may be concerned that your son needs to use the taught method on state tests at the end of the year to get full credit (or any credit).

    Or the teacher may not understand how to do the problems any way other than by the method(s) being taught.

    Last edited by Kai; 08/24/14 07:40 AM.
    venice #199214 08/24/14 08:17 AM
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    They know the child is highly advanced, but yet refuse to test his knowledge or capability. In fact, they refuse to accept the results of MAP testing that was recently performed by a different school showing that he exceeded the 99th percentile in math.

    venice #199217 08/24/14 08:43 AM
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    Is there an acceleration option in this school? It sounds like he changed schools (MAP was administered at a different school).

    In our district, the current 5th grade math acceleration is based upon a matrix, which includes the MAP. You need 11 points in this matrix to skip 5th grade math and go to 6th grade math (which is taught within the K-5 school). A 94th percentile MAP will get you 5 points, 96th+ gets you 6 points. 90%+ on the 4th grade end of year test gets you 5 points (there are a few other ways to get points). If your school has a similar system, I would suggest taking the 4th grade end of year test.

    I can see the value in learning multiple ways to get to an answer. Not all the methods have value - such as the ones that take 20 steps to do a problem that could be completed in 3 steps - but knowing and understanding multiple ways to get to an answer can be helpful as he gets to critical thinking problems.

    If there is no option to accelerate, then I would probably just supplement at home. However, if you think he is ready for pre-algebra/algebra, there should be tests he can take to place into those (assuming there is a procedure in place to bus him to MS to get to the class).

    venice #199219 08/24/14 09:04 AM
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    We were considering a private school, thus the MAP. As far as the end of year math test, he scored a 97%. We offered to transport him to and from MS so that he could attend a higher level math class. The administration flatly said no because it would be inappropriate for him to be around middle school students.

    venice #199220 08/24/14 09:28 AM
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    It sounds as if the school doesn't accelerate, at least not in elementary. Here it is pretty common for kids to take the MS bus and take math 1st period, then take a bus back to elementary. Pretty common meaning that there are always a few kids each year. For the skipping 5th grade math and going straight to 6th grade math (but staying in the elementary school building), probably 20% of the 5th grade class does that.

    If they just don't accelerate, I would think that there are other kids like your son. If things get better in MS, I would just wait it out. Not ideal, but once he gets to MS (in 6th, I assume), he may be able to accelerate or at least he can participate in activities such as MathCounts.

    venice #199221 08/24/14 10:24 AM
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    We offered to transport him to and from MS so that he could attend a higher level math class. The administration flatly said no because it would be inappropriate for him to be around middle school students.
    Sometimes a school's objections to acceleration are revealed in layers; It is possible that this statement reveals the true objection (social/emotional and interpersonal skills) while previous responses (denying level of academic skills) may have been the wrapping intended to dissuade you from further exploration of the topic prior to you reaching the point of understanding the true objection. Many salespeople practice drawing out objections so they can begin the art of overcoming objections.

    As this advocacy effort may have reached the point of understanding objections, the following may be helpful:

    1) Each teacher/administrator/school/district may be at a different point in their experience/expertise in understanding and serving the needs of gifted students. For each teacher/administrator/school/district, some kiddo is their first experience. If this inaugural experience goes well, it may open the doors for others. If you wish to proceed, with your child possibly being the first and therefore a trail blazer, you may wish to gather information to overcome the school's stated objections.

    2) Because the objection shared in the most recent post has to do with social/emotional and interpersonal skills, ("inappropriate for him to be around middle school students"), your task may be to show that it is overwhelmingly very appropriate for him to be around middle school students. How might a parent do this convincingly?

    Gathering anecdotal evidence may help:
    - Does your child have friends who are older?
    - Mix/mingle with older children in the neighborhood?
    - Participate on sports teams, or in summer camps with older children?
    - Socialize well with older cousins, older siblings of friends, etc?
    - Does your child display emotional maturity and resilience?

    Gathering research and resources such as the following may be of help:
    - A Nation Deceived,
    - Institute for Research and Policy on Acceleration,
    - the Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS). While the IAS is for whole grade skipping, some schools may use the IAS to prepare a complete record of a student's scores and "thoroughly discuss the case and to consider other curricular options and recommendations for the student." (quote from IAS Manual, page 34) Other curricular options may include single-subject acceleration such as you are seeking for your child. Just saw your earlier thread, and added a post there for the benefit of possible future readers of that thread.

    3) Do you plan to document your meeting by writing a summary? While remaining positive and factual, and not guessing at motivations, it may be possible to document your understanding of their stated objection, agree with their concern in theory (as a point of tact and diplomacy), and also work to overcome their objection in your meeting summary, asking for a follow-up meeting perhaps to discuss the anecdotal evidence and research that you have presented.

    venice #199228 08/24/14 12:28 PM
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    Yes, I have seen this kind of thing.

    In my son's 6th grade class, An Honors, essentially pre-algebra class. My son had a few packets of math problems sent home as homework, that would have been very easy to solve with algebra. But there were NOT supposed to use algebra, they were supposed to set up these "graphs" and try and do the problems by drawing graphs for each step of the way. My son had real problems with doing it this way, it didn't seem intuitive at all. Since he was having difficulty I looked at it, and it took me a while to figure out what they wanted. Drove my son & I both up the wall. They weren't particularly easy problems to solve this way, two equations & two unknown kind of problems. I don't really think it helped my DS at all, he has always had an easy time with math concepts and honestly just confused things.


    venice #199230 08/24/14 01:14 PM
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    I also have to wonder if it is Everyday Math curriculum or something like that. There are questions that specifically ask you to solve a problem using a certain methods. Most of these methods seem very odd to me, but if you treat it as a "game," it might be more bearable.

    Would your son be wiling to first solve it his way, and then solve it the way his teacher asks to prove he can?

    At this point, given the school's attitude on acceleration, might it make sense to ask for pre-testing and curriculum compacting (only teaching the concept he needs to know and doing some challenge math or something else in the other time)?

    venice #199238 08/24/14 05:24 PM
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    Actually, even some very good math curricula, like Singapore Math, ask fifth-grade students to solve two equation/two unknown problem using bar diagrams. When I worked through SM with the first child, my sibling and I were simultaneously going through the same level with our respective first children and both had the same reaction--why not just teach them algebra? Having gone through it with a second child (both of us, actually, again at the same time) it has become more clear that it has some value as a means of teaching problem solving, and providing a better conceptual basis (vs the procedural fluency/conceptual ignorance prevalent in North America).

    If a teacher is not sufficiently deep in his or her own mathematical understanding to know how to probe students for -their- understanding, he or she will not be able to judge whether a student's use of algebraic language and procedures is an indication that they have already surpassed the level at which they need to develop conceptual grounding, or is just a sign that they have been hot-housed into knowing a few manipulations.

    At one point, our first child was in a similar, though much less severe, situation. My approach was to talk about the value of understanding multiple ways of approaching, understanding, and communicating problem solving. Even if it's obvious to you, someday you might want to explain it to someone else, and having a few strategies might be helpful. Conveniently, that's our child who wants to teach.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    venice #199429 08/27/14 06:58 AM
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    Thank you for all the responses. I think the underlying message is that they just don’t want to accelerate this child. In all seriousness, how can you deny or even have a discussion about acceleration, when the child’s school won’t test him and ignores the results of independently administered test?

    venice #199437 08/27/14 08:12 AM
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    Originally Posted by venice
    Thank you for all the responses. I think the underlying message is that they just don’t want to accelerate this child. In all seriousness, how can you deny or even have a discussion about acceleration, when the child’s school won’t test him and ignores the results of independently administered test?


    Escalate up the chain in the school district.


    Become what you are
    venice #199442 08/27/14 08:44 AM
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    In my opinion, your newest concern is nothing to lose sleep over. The ability to deliver solutions within the requested parameters is invaluable. There is nothing to prevent your DS from solving problems using algebra as well even if his teacher doesn't want to take the time to discuss that with him. In my experience, it may sometimes be more challenging and thought provoking to use less sophisticated tools to reach a solution. I occasionally challenge my children to provide solutions using different approaches as a way to reach deeper understanding and teach perspective.

    Your greater concern is that your DS needs acceleration. You appeared to have partially met that need by the independent Algebra I study. If the issue is that your DS needs that acceleration during school hours, then you need to move up the chain. If the decision is political in the sense that acceleration is forbidden to one and all, then you may be without recourse unless the district is somehow violating statutes or rules. If the decision is political in the sense that they are discriminating against only your DS despite his meeting of all criteria, then try to gather up information regarding other accelerated students (particularly if they appear less qualified criteria-wise) and move up the chain of command.

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    Originally Posted by Quantum2003
    In my opinion, your newest concern is nothing to lose sleep over. The ability to deliver solutions within the requested parameters is invaluable. There is nothing to prevent your DS from solving problems using algebra as well even if his teacher doesn't want to take the time to discuss that with him. In my experience, it may sometimes be more challenging and thought provoking to use less sophisticated tools to reach a solution. I occasionally challenge my children to provide solutions using different approaches as a way to reach deeper understanding and teach perspective.

    This is so true. My ds 11 hated problems last year that made him solve the equation then he also had to put the equation in Slope-Intercept Form. For some reason it made him think different. He said it is such a waste of time. He finally got over it and kind of liked it once he got faster at it. He said it was like drawing a picture.

    venice #199454 08/27/14 12:41 PM
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    If I understand correctly, there may be three separate concerns you've articulated:
    1) Testing (school won't test, school won't accept outside results)
    2) Acceleration (school won't accelerate, possibly due to concerns of mixed age classes)
    3) Math (student solves algebraically, school seeks visual-spatial solutions)

    There is an art to staying in a conversation long enough to obtain the answers you are seeking, including clarifications to your understanding of what the teacher/school/district has said. Taking notes can help. For example, note taking can keep things moving, focused, and on topic. At the same time, note taking can also slow things down enough to "buy time" for a person to count to 10 (thereby avoiding a flash of anger in a response which may guess at motivations or sound accusatory or emotional); This may afford the opportunity to formulate a clarifying question or allow a person to rephrase what they understood.

    Originally Posted by venice
    I think the underlying message is that they just don’t want to accelerate this child.
    This child? Or any child? Or... not accelerate any child more than 1 year? Etc? The more clarification a parent has, and the better an objection is understood, the more prepared a parent may be to advocate.

    Quote
    In all seriousness, how can you deny or even have a discussion about acceleration, when the child’s school won’t test him and ignores the results of independently administered test?
    Not every battle is worth fighting. For example, when school district's testing practice does not meet a parent's expectations, only that family can decide whether the disappointment about testing is worth investing effort to hopefully bring about a change. If the family perceives a large potential impact on their child (or many children), and believes the issue is worth putting forth effort to make a change, the family may wish to prepare for individual advocacy efforts and/or work to amend school district policy.

    If a family is determined to proceed, they may first wish to consider what managed their expectations about in-school testing and/or the acceptance of outside test results. For example, was there something in State law? ...in school district policy? ...mentioned by school district personnel in a meeting? Or possibly something posted to a forum indicating how another school district handled testing?

    To prepare for individual advocacy efforts, parents may wish to:
    1) become familiar with any applicable State laws and determine whether current school district actions follow applicable State laws
    and/or
    2) become familiar with school district policies and prepare to discuss whether current school district actions are in line with published district policies; parents can hold schools accountable to abide by their current published policy statements (for example, policies regarding identification/testing)
    and/or
    3) become familiar with the school district objections to the acceleration or placement you are seeking and determine whether you have sufficient material (research studies, statistics, facts, personal anecdotes) to overcome objections

    Parents may also gather with others for strength in numbers and submit written suggestions for policy changes (often based upon what other districts may be doing). Finding and reading the policy and practice statements of other public school districts may be a good starting point for gathering ideas as to how a local school district's policy statements may be improved.

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