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Joined: Feb 2014
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- deleted for privacy -
Last edited by slammie; 08/02/14 02:06 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Hi Slammie, just wanted to lend my support as I don't have any advice for you - hope it gets better soon.
One thing I have been doing with my little perfectionist is watching things like gymnastics/ice skating etc which strives for perfection. Having her watch the athletes fall and get back up repeatedly will hopefully drill into her that even the elite make mistakes at the worst possible times and can recover. Maybe there is a way of increasing that message to your son through whatever his interests are? perhaps you could find a concert pianist making an error on you tube and carrying onto great applause. I wouldn't necessarily say why you are watching it but do point out how great it is the pianist kept going etc.
Our piano teacher also stressed the importance of playing easy pieces at the end of each practise to increase confidence after a challenging piece.
I certainly don't think that is a magic cure of course, but I think our kids seek out media that shows perfection and they get an unrealistic view of how things are. Just my 2 cents
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Take what I say with a grain of salt, since no one can long-distance diagnose, but I would be concerned. From what you describe, I would guess that efforts to reason with him won't work, because it sounds like he is in the grip of emotions beyond his control. It couldn't hurt to ask a professional's advice. At the least, it could set your mind at rest if there's nothing really wrong and he just needs to work through this.
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I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with this. Our oldest dd had some similar tendencies and it was very stressful at times for both her and us. She is now in her 20s and we've talked from time to time about her younger self and she describes being completely overwhelmed by her feelings, feeling out-of-control, and being scared (by the intensity of her feelings), but at the same time being unable to respond rationally. I think being a perfectionist is pretty typical for gifted kids, but I think the question that you need to ask is not whether it's typical, but whether it's healthy. In the case of your ds, it sounds like it's not healthy and some intervention is needed. For our dd, part of the resolution was, of course, just simply maturing. However, she was also helped by CBT and by neurofeedback, as well as traditional counseling. What helped from us was to put the brakes on the response to the extent that we were able. She later said that since she felt out of control, the more "in control" that we seemed the better. In essence, we tried: 1) always remaining calm 2) setting boundaries around activities that promoted the behavior (in other words, if he is sitting at the piano getting more frustrated every minute, you need to step in and say he's done). 3) setting clear expectations for acceptable behavior and letting him know what is appropriate. I'm not saying to punish him by any means, but I do think it's appropriate to explain that his behavior is disruptive and scary and not healthy for him, so you are going to step in. 4) Don't spend a lot of time responding or interacting with him when he is out of control, because honestly, you will be frustrated and he won't hear a word you're saying.
I would apply these same things to your dd. It's good she gets over her anger quickly, but exploding, crumpling things up and storming off is also not acceptable behavior. Believe me, as a mom to a very emotionally intense dd, I understand that they are not "misbehaving" per se, but I do think that they need to understand that it isn't an appropriate response. My dd eventually learned to pinpoint the very early signs that she was getting angered or agitated and that made all the difference. We spent a lot of time talking about learning how to do that, helping her journal feelings, etc.
I do not in any way mean to make light of your son's feelings about death, but I will say that we occasionally heard the same things (and obviously responded very seriously). I think it's not completely uncommon among the very gifted kids; they just feel things so intensely. We had more than one conversation about death, suicide, depression, etc.. We made very, very sure that she understood that we needed to ascertain if she was serious and we would not blow off any such statements, and we also made sure she had resources and help. Eventually, the storms calmed, but to be frank, they lasted through HS and it took her a long time to not feel like she was a complete failure if things didn't come easily, the very first time, with no mistakes (oddly, she was the most empathetic of all my kids with anyone ELSE, but never with herself!).
Good luck to both of you. I'm sure you are both exhausted and emotionally overwhelmed by the time it ends (although dd often felt better, lol, once she got it all out and would sometimes wake up the next morning refreshed, while I would wake up with dark circles and feel like I hadn't slept at all, as I tried to figure out what to do).
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When my dd got intense and had strong reactions, I made her quit the activity because I said it was not good for our relationship. Eventually (age 6) she came to me with a proposal that I leave her alone to work it out and that she will not involve me in the process. Works great. BUT.... she has never had those end of the world negative thoughts. Those are concerning (not the end of the world as I've known kids who are catastrophic thinkers) but still worth delving. I'd say something like "that's an over reaction. Is that really how you feel? That if you can't do this one thing right, there's no point in doing anything else?" Process it with him. A LOT. And let him know that those thoughts can get out of hand. That they aren't true but if you keep saying them to yourself, you may start believing them. If you can't get him to change his thinking pattern, I'd be seeking consult with a therapist. ALso, try reading this book. It helped me tremendously with me glass half empty kid (who is not my super intense reactionary kid BTW) http://www.amazon.com/The-Optimisti...-2&keywords=raising+the+optimistic+child
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Joined: Apr 2013
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I agree that it may be time to consult with a professional. Meanwhile here are a few resources which may be of interest: SENG article by James T. Webb: http://www.sengifted.org/archives/a...-conference-reflections-on-sengs-history Books and articles by James T. Webb, including A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children (which mentions existential angst), and Searching for Meaning: Idealism, Bright Minds, Disillusionment, and Hope (a recent work). The book Living with Intensity by Daniels and Piechowski. A recent thread on perfectionism includes this post mentioning resources for understanding mindset and perfectionism.
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Thanks all for your guidance, support and for the great links. I do have the intensity book; I think I need to re-read some of the chapters! Momtofour, MON, your suggestions are really helpful - will keep those mind. I do have a problem getting him to stop the activity though (will refuse to give up), which makes it all even more difficult but I have found that sticking to your point #4 does help.
Yes, I am going to start searching for a therapist to him and also to help deal with our sometimes tense family dynamics due to our kids intensities (actually DH too). Problem I have had in the past is that the therapist just did not get my DD's gifted intensities and it sort of backfired and made her feel awful about herself. We don't have anyone who really has a lot of experience with gifted children in our area. Perhaps I need to contact DYS consultant for suggestions. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
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Though we have a little perfectionist on our hands, we have not witnessed any negativity beyond the "I am no good at piano" crying fits and the occasional throwing of music books. So, your son's feelings are not normal (at least from what I have witnessed raising my one child) and you are wise to look into the root cause of it.
As for piano - I first try to react calmly to the perfectionist meltdowns (took me a while to learn that!). I ask my son to stop what he is doing and take an immediate break. Then, I ask him to show me where the problems are. I then act as a coach and walk him through the difficult part step by step. This involves reading the notes aloud, checking the finger numbers, clapping the rhythm, playing only the right hand part of the difficult measures until it sounds right and then helping to put both hand parts together. It takes a while, but when I am done, he has usually mastered the difficult part and is happily playing the piece again. The problem with my DS is that he thinks that he is very good at what he is doing and he is used to everything coming easily to him that it is a shock and a major frustration when things don't click into place on the first attempt. I try to teach him to play slowly at first and then pick up speed and he knows the process of working through the difficult parts, but his brain refuses to think logically when he is having the meltdowns and he needs patient reminders every single time.
Good luck and hope you get a handle on the perfectionist meltdowns.
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Master of none, that is pretty much what happens with DS and also DD. It's all about needing to work through the struggle themselves. DS is better at taking assistance and direction from me, but once he hits a roadblock on something he wants to master, it's like I'm not there and the intense frustrations begin. And yes, a little while later he will play beautifully, and wil have that smile of satisfaction on his face which sends the message to him perservering will reap rewards. I just wish that path would less stressful for all of us.
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Though we have a little perfectionist on our hands, we have not witnessed any negativity beyond the "I am no good at piano" crying fits and the occasional throwing of music books. So, your son's feelings are not normal (at least from what I have witnessed raising my one child) and you are wise to look into the root cause of it.
As for piano - I first try to react calmly to the perfectionist meltdowns (took me a while to learn that!). I ask my son to stop what he is doing and take an immediate break. Then, I ask him to show me where the problems are. I then act as a coach and walk him through the difficult part step by step. This involves reading the notes aloud, checking the finger numbers, clapping the rhythm, playing only the right hand part of the difficult measures until it sounds right and then helping to put both hand parts together. It takes a while, but when I am done, he has usually mastered the difficult part and is happily playing the piece again. The problem with my DS is that he thinks that he is very good at what he is doing and he is used to everything coming easily to him that it is a shock and a major frustration when things don't click into place on the first attempt. I try to teach him to play slowly at first and then pick up speed and he knows the process of working through the difficult parts, but his brain refuses to think logically when he is having the meltdowns and he needs patient reminders every single time.
Good luck and hope you get a handle on the perfectionist meltdowns. Thanks Ashely, these steps are great! This is what I usually do with him and on a good day it works, but lately it hasn't. Like I mentioned above, he wants so desperately to achieve the feat by himself. I think he is angry that he isn't able to output what he thinks that he should be totally capable of. We've talked numerous times about how he is not expected to master each piece the first or second time, rather that should be a goal for him to reach during the week of pratice, and whilst he agrees with me, I think he sets different goals for himself in his head. The perfectionism fits of anger usually occur on the first day after lessons or while he is learning a difficult recital piece. He started piano 14 months ago starting with the piano adventures primer level and he will be starting level 3 very soon. Somehow I have got to get him to see that he will not be on the same rate of learning as he progresses through the more difficult books and focus on technique and expression. I have talked to the piano teacher about this and she was understanding and concerned. However, DS admitted to me that he told the teacher he didn't get frustrated or cry.
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