Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment aeh could you offer your expertise ?

Would you mind giving your interpretation on my dd's WISC results?

She's much happier at school now that she's in the gifted program but she still isn't achieving where one would think given her IQ scores. Math is her stronger subject and outside of class she is able to do problems such as 24,347 ÷ 294, 345 x 53, reducing fractions, and converting improper fractions to mixed fractions and vice versa. However, in school this past year (accelerated 1 year in math, doing 3rd grade math) she was in the second to last math group and would struggle with simple things and make silly mistakes. Personally, I blame it on the Everyday Math curriculum and lack of math instruction. She would only get math instruction about 2 times a week for about 15 minutes tops. We were lucky if she got that. The rest of the time she was left to work on her EM workbook independently and Khan academy.

She also has issues with making friends and fitting in. Still unsure if it is related to IQ, possible aspergers, or just very introverted. At school she prefers only one on one interactions with friends/classmates, doesn't like to be watched/looked at, prefers to eat lunch alone and if others sit across from her she will turn away and face the other direction. I brought these things up to her teacher and dd talked with the social worker and they suggested she play group games outside of school that require turn taking. I can do that at home, problem is the main area of her social unhappiness is at school.

FSIQ 149 (99.9%)


Similarities 13
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 14
VCI
124 (95%)


Block Design 17
Matrix Reasoning 19
Picture Concepts 19
PRI
151 (>99.9%)


Digit Span 19
Letter/Numb Seq 15
WMI
141 (99.7%)


Coding 10
Symbol Search 14
PSI
112 (79%)

Thank you.

As someone with a horrible working memory, holy moly that must be awesome!
I don't think I have ever seen a WM that high.

I know, and it definitely shows. I'm amazed at the things she's able to remember. Where it really shows is when she does multi-step math problems in her head that I would normally have to work out on paper. For instance, she can do 3 and 4 digit subtraction problems working left to right in her head. I honestly don't know how she does it.

We used to wonder if she had ADD because of the daydreaming in kindergarten and 1st but now I think it was just boredom.

I'm not aeh, but it seems really surprising that a child with a PRI and WMI like that would struggle with math. Something is not right.

Oh yes, forgot to add that one. Anxiety and introverted are my top suspicions.

Hmm. The first thing I notice is that there is quite a substantial difference between her Verbal and Perceptual Reasoning index scores (and BTW, is the PRI using extended norms, or no?). A nearly 2 SD difference between the indices suggests a skewed learning profile, which potentially could signal a 2e. That, and the middling PSI (although one should always consider that Avg/High Avg PSI is not that unusual in gifted kids).

I bring this up in particular because Everyday Math is a highly verbal, writing heavy math curriculum, with an emphasis on "process" which plays rather to the disadvantage of naturally mathy kids, who honestly see no process between the question and the answer. It's one of the classic constructivist, Chicago Math-style curricula developed by verbally-strong educators. A lot of time (even when you do receive instruction) is spent on exploring and "discovering" math principles. She is strong, but not stratospheric, in language, but is being asked to restrict her progress in her area of strength to the level of her relative weakness. Without support for the weakness. (VCI of 124 is kind of borderline for a one-year grade advancement in writing, which is what has, functionally, been done here.)

As to the shyness, all of the factors you have named are possibilities. I would add that G&T programs also tend to be biased toward highly-verbal, extroverted children, as that is who teachers preferentially nominate. So now she is also in a setting that is full of these chattery, socially-assertive peers, which might make a shy or introverted visual/nonverbal learner feel just a bit overwhelmed. She probably needs a break at lunch, after struggling with the constant verbal bombardment during class.

I would suggest building her social skills by selecting quieter, less-emotionally and -verbally demanding peers for one-on-one play dates. In the school setting, she may need the quiet time. I wouldn't demand that she have to play or converse with groups of children all the time. If it is necessary to work in a group, build in restful alone time, so she can balance solo refreshment with group exertion. There is nothing wrong with being a person who is energized by being alone and reflective, as long as you gradually learn to manage being with other people, and engage in a few selected deep personal relationships.

I'm also not aeh, but fwiw, my ds had difficulty fitting in and making friends in early elementary, and in his case the reason was a combination of an undiagnosed LD (dysgraphia, Disorder of Written Expression) - he was silently comparing himself to all the other kids around him who were able to do writing assignments easily (from his perspective), and an Expressive Language Disorder (had extreme difficulty getting his thoughts out, which included some difficulties with what seem like very simply everyday forms of communication - for instance, he's been in speech therapy for years now and made tons of progress, but we still find little things all the time that he just doesn't know how to do until we've given him a script and he practices - at the moment, he's practicing calling friends on the phone. He can send an email, but doesn't know how to initiate a phone call... and he's a teen).

FWIW, he has a WISC profile that is similar to your dd's (except for a slightly lower WM lol!)... the thing that jumps out at me is your dd's coding score. Did she have a neuropsych or psych ed veal at any point in time and if so, what was noted about the relatively low coding score?

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, once we understood what was up with my ds, accommodated for his dysgraphia, and began remediation for his expressive language disorder, the situation with friends turned around 180 degrees. So much of his isolation in the early school years was due to feelings within himself, and was not related to any kind of true social challenge. Once we helped him be successful at school, he found his self-confidence and fit in at school socially, as well as making a good-sized circle of friends.

Horrible curriculum (Everyday Math), and probably terrible teachers and school.

Perhaps struggle is the wrong word. She makes silly mistakes on the easy things and I would say story problems are sometimes a struggle for her. At home and on Khan academy she is excellent in math. I honestly think it's Everyday Math and lack of actual instruction in school. Last year the teacher would give the unit tests as pretests and if they scored a certain percentile they cold skip that unit. If they didn't pass they would have to do that unit. Even her teacher commented on how she would rush and make silly mistakes on the simpler math and thus be stuck in the lower group. However, she will do much more complex math with no problem.

The other issue, as I mentioned in the original post, is the lack of math instruction. The majority of math time (90 min each day) is spent just sitting and doing their Everyday Math workbooks independently and expected to just learn it on their own. If they don't know something they're supposed to look it up in the reference book. My dd is a bit on the lazy side and mostly rushes through and doesn't take the time to look things up.

What kinds of other settings? Noisy? visually stimulating? or just socially demanding?

Don't write off sensory issues if the amount of input seems to impact the behavior.



I'll add my voice to the chorus of envy re: that WM. Wow.