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    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Originally Posted by Quantum2003
    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    Originally Posted by NotSoGifted
    Guess I never heard it called high school geometry, but middle kid took geometry in middle school. Always at least a couple dozen who do this in our district. You can only take it in middle school if you are on the highest track or accelerated in math.

    I remember doing Euclidian Geometry including theorems and their proofs up to the 4th postulate and the definition, at least, of parallelism at junior school before I was 11 in England back in the early Seventies. It followed right on from Arithmetic and after that we started with basic Algebra (simple linear equations).

    I have never understood, given the sheer parsimony of it, why US schools wait so long to cover it.

    It was cool and we got to learn to use compasses to draw and explore the properties of circles, chords, sectors, tangents, triangles, create perpendicular lines and bisect lines etc long before we learned how to use a protractor. Maybe people are afraid of injuries and lawsuits now given how discipline in schools has all but disappeared in many schools.

    Actually, your assumptions are not true and have not been true for at least a decade in my children's district and many other districts (in different states) of which I am aware. There is even the term "elementary geometry" sometimes used to describe the geometry routinely covered in the elementary curriculum. Circumference, area, volume, parallel/perpendicular lines ,translating/rotating/flipping figures, and compass/protractor use are just some of the topics routinely covered in elementary school. In our district's pre-algebra curriculum, easily a third of the curriculum would be more properly classified as pre-geometry and further extends coverage of geometry-type topics. "High school" geometry, which my DS will study in 6th grade will be routinely taken in 8th grade by "GT" students(maybe about a quarter of students as the label becomes more inclusive in middle school). That "high school" geometry course will require the ability to write proofs.

    Sorry, you lost me blush which assumptions are incorrect?


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    My eldest attended a charter that was supposedly oriented toward math and science and supposedly understood gifted kids. The geometry class there never got past fill-in-the-blank style proofs. This was only two years ago.

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    Sorry for the lack of clarity. I don't mean that all your assumptions are incorrect. My point was that the situation has changed in the U.S. Euclidean geometry is now incorporated far earlier in many U.S. math curriculum than it was decades ago (when I attended). My oldest DS is 18 and I remembered being shocked that I had to purchase a compass/protractor for him in 4th grade (GT math so covered 5th grade topics). Furthermore, the same spiraling occurs for geometry topics as for arithmetic topics in elementary school. For example, they were calculating volume and translating and rotating objects in 3rd grade GT math (4th grade topics).

    I think it is possible that my district might be a bit more vigorous than the average district but the spiraling mindset is the same. If you look at the ALEKS math courses, which I assume is fairly representative of U.S. curriculum, their 6th grade (one year before pre-algebra) topics include creating angle bisectors with a virtual compass.

    I assume your junior high refers to 7th and 8th grade whereas our middle school include 6th grade as well as 7th and 8th. Most students in our district would take pre-algebra either in 6th grade (GT) or 7th grade (regular). Pre-algebra has quite a bit of geometry topics presented at a higher level than back in elementary school.

    Now you did mention doing proofs up to the 4th postulate in junior high. That would be in line with GT geometry for 8th grade GT students. However, that would be beyond the regular math students who would not be required to produce proofs until they take geometry in 9th grade. Furthermore, the regular students start by filling in missing steps in the proofs before having to produce one from scratch. I also agree with a number of posters who mentioned that producing proofs aren't as big a part of geometry courses compared to several decades ago.

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    Maybe someone has already said this, but I think one reason fill in the blank style proofs are the thing now is that they are far easier to grade than the real thing. Of course, they're also far easier to do than the real thing as well.

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