Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Really Really Disappointed.

I tell you I can not wait until this school year is over! I flippin' hate my son's teacher. She just lives to knock him down a peg. She just flat out refuses to recognize his talents. He waits all year to get student of the month - no one picks my son ... Some children have been chosen three times!!! Some twice, My son once .. at the end of the year. All year he's been wanting his writing to be included in "ShareFest" - only the two kids in the class with highest score on the writing assignment get chosen. A few months ago my son was one of the three highest and so they drew straws and guess who lost out? ... you guessed it - my poor kid. Then, this month, the final sharefest of the year he wrote this great story and allegedly the teacher told him that it could be in sharefest but she wants to give someone else a chance so he doesn't get to do it. WTF? Someone else a chance? He's never gotten to do it! And, apparently, she told him she realizes he never got to do it but he was chosen for young authors (that is a completely different contest which was not judged by her and which he was chosen as a finalist and did not ultimately win. Oh and it felt like she did everything in her power to impeded his participating in the YA contest, e.g. she refused to give him his accommodations to write his piece and then when she finally had to because yours truly was on top of it of course she made him do it during recess!) I know I am being a pushy parent but like I have said before she just seems to have this goal of "knocking him down." And he really needs his strengths and talents to be recognized sometimes! I really want to say something about this. Should I? Sorry I sound like a crazy tiger mom ... hoping those of you who see how much our 2E kids struggle every day will understand a little about why I am so upset.

ETA The sharefest already took place and is over now... so it's not like I will complain and he will get to do it. I just really want to share with her how disappointed I am in how she seems to have a mission to downplay and/or not appreciate his talents.

Sounds hard poor kid. I sometimes wonder whether teachers think gifted kids don't need affirmation because they know they are bright. The problem is they don't because they feel nothing they do is good enough.

Exactly and they wonder why these kids underachieve and tune out... Grrrrrr This is especially important for a 2E kid ... Some things come SOOOOOOO hard for him. Really! But, see, that's another thing it has become increasingly obvious, at least to me - she doesn't see either exceptionality... all she sees is a pain in the a$$... with a B#@% of a mother. Grrr. She also moved his seat to the back of the room farthest away form his computer while he was at ATP. I thought it was slightly interesting she did it while he was at ATP as the times before he was there when she moved around the kiddos and he protested at being moved far from the computer. This time she waited till he was out to do it. I could be just totally paranoid but I am usually very perceptive about people... nevertheless, this is my kid so my emotions may hinder what is usually quite a talent for me. Still, it just feels like she is being vindictive or something and slightly more so lately.

Irena, first off hugs to you and your ds. Trust your mom instincts. I have always regretted not doing that and instead giving other people the benefit of doubt. However, I am not sure complaining would help as she may just get more revengeful. I don't understand why people like her become teachers. Sorry couldn't offer you any helpful advice.

Hugs, it's hard when this is really important to them. I have been there with both my kids, and this type of thing would really bother my daughter. My son would rather stay anonymous and it doesn't really bother him much.

Great advice MON but how would I start the email/letter? I actually wrote everything down and basically said (in my own draft I have said or sent anything) that all year DS has received very little recognition for his abilities and strengths by "room ---." There has been an extreme focus on the negative and so-called “behaviors.” (eg., gifted rating scale so low despite the fact that he is and has been all year the highest reader and the highest performed in math as well as ALWAYS trying so hard on any optional challenge work). Oddly, the negative focus has not ever included any mention of the fact that my son struggles immensely to write both physically and in actually knowing how to form letters, ect. (eg the AT eval teacher imput form where she goes on about "behaviors" but doe not mention anything about his writing problem.)

I understand your frustration. Although no teacher has ever thought that my DS was not bright, there have been times where I got the feeling that people have thought he is impulsive, undisciplined and not hard working - they resented that he does so well on tests, etc. and felt like he needed to be knocked down a peg or so. It does make me very angry especially because I know how much he has struggled in certain areas and how he does show persistence and discipline in cases where kids faced with the same challenges would give up.

I would let the issue go with this teacher – it is just going to cause you internal frustration, etc. and it will likely have no impact on them. One year I was so angry at something a teacher wrote on DS’s report card, I wrote a long email to the teacher that was highly critical of her teaching, etc. and was pretty nasty – then I sent it to my husband.

I think your DS should know how great his achievements are especially in light of his other exceptionalities and hope you can find avenues where his achievements can be acknowledged and appreciated – whether it’s a summer science program, or talent search testing or something else – I hope you can find a place where he can feel good about his efforts and what he can accomplish. Hugs to you!

I've been debating the same thing about a similarly bad teacher. DS's current teacher is fine but the last teacher was not, and I don't think she understands at all why we pulled him out mid-year. She has probably figured out so many ways to put us down to her co-workers and make us look like the bad guys. DD is still in the school, but DD is going to be out of there as well at the end of the school year. I haven't said anything (except for a very brief conversation at the time that I pulled him) because I fear retaliation on DD or that there would be negative consequences somehow. But now that we will be done w/ the school for good, I am debating what to do. I told everything to the principal and someone in administration but I don't think they took it seriously or reprimanded/talked to her. If they did, the teacher probably played innocent and figured out how to twist it around. I so badly want to at least email her and tell her how wonderfully DS is doing now that he isn't in that class and toxic school anymore, how badly she handled things (she was really passive aggressive) and how his new teacher did thorough assessments and is giving him very challenging work, plus helping him with writing which he strugges with. (The old teacher had said that any work above a first grade level would be unnecessary despite the high WISC, Woodcock Johnson, etc).

In terms of you, I would suggest waiting at least til the end of the year when he no longer needs to deal with that teacher, but there is a gossip mill and if she is hostile who knows how it will affect your relationship with future teachers. On the other hand, if parents never say anything or complain, nothing ever changes and people never see the light. I'm so annoyed that people like this are even in the teaching profession. And there are even worse teachers who never get fired or lose their jobs because of tenure and contracts.

Irena, I think you need to consider carefully what you want to accomplish before sounding off.

As far as I know, no teacher has ever thought of himself or herself as a bad, mean, or unskilled teacher. Nor do I think you can reform the ignorant or biased ones by merely pointing out how your child has suffered in their class. They will still blame your child; plus they will find you vindictive and pushy, and they will think you overestimate your child. This will aggravate you, and yet nothing much is likely to improve as a result.

Is your DS still going to be at that school next year? My focus would be trying to make sure that the bad teacher doesn't pick your child's teacher or poison that relationship ahead of time. I do think you should have a frank talk with the principal, and cite for him/her chapter and verse of the law that protects children with disabilities. It's OK to specify to the principal how bad it's been, and to request a teacher with specific traits. Fairness, understanding of disabilities, there's a list you can make here that will be positively useful.

Year's almost over! Hang in there!

Thanks all. I have totally calmed down. It's just the culmination of it from all year long, ya know? I am going to ask her about it, though... but not confrontational and depending on how she answers I will say that it was disheartening since he tried all year to get to do it and what a "good sport" he was about graciously "letting someone else have a chance" even though he has never had a chance himself. I have a few other questions for her so I plan to just work it in and not be adversarial but still point it out. I think asking her about it and pointing out indirectly that I have noticed is worth something. I am also gonna try to work in the same convo that I noticed in her 'teacher input form' for the AT eval that she failed to mention anything about his writing difficulties (she instead talked his being "argumentative," "oppositional" and "distractible" instead of mentioning anything about the very fact of why we need the AT eval in the first place - the fact that he can not write) - why ? Does she not see that as impeding his learning and functioning at school? I am just going to play very curious and confused. Why it wasn't mentioned at all? Anyway, we'll see... I plan on being casual and just playing really naïve and curious. And maybe I won't say anything at all. It just depends on how things are flowing. The year is almost over, thank God and there are certainly worse things.

But thanks to you all for supporting me while vented! The only people that really get it, I think, are the parents of the 2Es so thanks ...

She really couldn't find anything nice to say on that AT Eval?

Maybe use your bad experience to meet with the principal and advocate for getting input into which teacher next year would be a better fit for him. If he's 2E and has an IEP, you could always ask for an IEP meeting too.

Yeah but that is not even my problem. My problem is she used the form to yet, again, list a litany of 'problem behaviors' while not once mentioning (not even once!) that he can not communicate in handwriting. It just seems so odd and, like, passive aggressive. The AT eval form was not an eval for behavior modification or medicine or a eval for any disorder. The purpose of the form and eval is basically 'what tasks does the child need to be able to do that he can not do and therefore impedes his functioning and learning in the classroom.' And what did she do wth the form? She went on and on about behaviors. I am not so bothered that she mentioned the behaviors but the she really went on and on and at the same time did not mention that he can not write, draw or accomplish fine motor tasks effectively. What did she think this would accomplish? Did she think the AT lady would provide ADHD meds? Or maybe shock therapy for when he is "argumentative"? I am just at a lost for what she was trying to accomplish... It just seems she used it unnecessarily as a platform for her to B%^$# about my son and not to help with the whole point of the eval which was to brainstorm ideas to make it so he can independently communicate in writing with technology.

That's probably not meanness (although her other acts certainly are)-- it's ignorance.

When a kid can't write, it usually looks (from the outside, to the less-trained eye) exactly like "won't write." And when the kid is smart in other ways, they can't see why the child "won't write" and it looks like defiance.

Even teachers who are reasonably well trained in other ways do not know how to spot this. Your teacher, not a paragon of fairness or open-mindedness, isn't going to get it.

Her input into the eval is evidence for you to use-- it shows that DS needs a teacher who understands his disabilities and is willing to think outside the box to meet his needs.

Irena, we had an issue with a teacher when my son was in preschool. It wasn't nearly as difficult as what you are facing, but it was hard at the time. I went into meeting after meeting where the teachers talked about nothing except behavior. Not one mention about his skill set or what might be causing the problems.
It was around this time that I began to suspect that my son was "gifted" and I started pointing out his frustrations and difficulties relating to the other kids. The school completely turned a "deaf ear" and insinuated that if he was "smart" he would be acting better.
It was a terrible situation- we voluntarily moved schools because I felt that his teachers had no interest in "getting" him and the constant negative feedback was causing him anxiety issues. The happy ending is that with a better teacher and classroom, the classroom issues improved drastically and evaporated by kindergarten.
Sending you lots of support. It's wonderful that you are championing your DS- it will get better with a better teacher.

Does she think that you deny there are problem behaviors? So she feels the need to keep bringing it up over and over so that you finally get it?

I know of another parent in our school who kept getting negative behavior reports basically every day from the teacher at pickup. The teacher told her that he's the most difficult student she's ever had. I think the underlying goal was to make the parents break down and medicate him, which the parents finally did after the child had a violent episode and hurt a teacher. Ironicallly the meds did end up helping a lot, but it was inappropriate for the school to treat the situation that way. If a child has a disability it is the schools job to deal with it by getting the child a para if needed, coming up with a positive behavior plan, etc. But they didn't offer any of these special supports, and were't even following the IEP. So the teacher resorted to continually telling the parents how bad his behavior is, trying to get them to break down and medicate.

Well, I talked with her. She is going to have him do some sort of share thing for one of his writing this Monday. So that's nice and that is what she meant by "giving someone else a chance" because she had allegedly planned to have him do that. on Monday (at least we know not to be absent that day!) I didn't sound off, I simply asked as least confrontationally as possible. And I feel better that she already had a plan for letting him have some positive light for his hard work - at least he got some recognition this year ... that will mean a lot to him. I thanked her for that and said of that will mean so much to him and we moved on. No problem (at least not that I perceived). Then I had a questions about his class seating arrangements which had recently been changed and we discussed that. The pros and cons of his new seat and am relatively okay with her response. Again, I just asked (I think its valid considering) and said okay thanks for explaining - makes sense, we'll see how it goes. Then, since things were going so swimmingly (lol), I did bring up the AT eval form and she got really defensive. That did not go so well. I asked why when she was asked what tasks DS can not do that is impeding his functioning and learning in the classroom she did not mention his inability to write? but spent a great deal of time and paper discussing "behaviors" such as "oppositional and argumentative." She immediately became defensive and she said she thought it would be "redundant" for her to put on her form that he cannot write because there is a section on the form called "services received' and it is listed there that he gets OT (this section does not list why it just says he gets OT for letter formation). She said, and I quote, "So there is an inference from that there is a writing problem, I didn't need to actually say that on the form." (?!?). Uh okay. Really? And I said that - I said "Oh that is odd to me, I would think that when asked 'what tasks does the child need to be able to do that he can not do and therefore impedes his functioning and learning in the classroom?' it would be a good idea at that point to mention that he really struggles immensely with handwriting and any activities that require fine motor and drawing." And she told me she "had to go, good bye." Yeah.

My kid is not nearly as bad as the picture that is being painted by my complaining about this... Seriously. He has never been violent or anything. He is never sent to the principal's. I do not get bad reports. He is not having any tantrums or meltdowns or anything like that. And the school psych has said more than once that she has observed and he has been so good. Even his special area teachers say he is good (not perfect, he likes to take the steps two by two, he laughs when his buddy slides down the railing - typical boys stuff). My kid is actually a good kid. If you recall, for weeks he had been observed in class (that was in regard to attention/on-task) and he had no idea he was being observed and these people, with the exception of the school psych, were completely unknown to him, and him to them. All of his in-class observations (which were really like a blow by blow of every little thing he did indicate that he is good and even mostly on task (25-30% off task depending.) Thankfully and those were very, very helpful and were more favorable that teacher had expected I think. The observations did reveal he has trouble with the multistep sequencing (very typical of dyspraxia, as you know). The motor planning is so deficient is affects his executive functioning is affected (when your motor planning requires so much attention and is not automatic your attention is used up on that and you ability to accomplish tasks obviously goes down significantly). The muti-step transitions (e.g., pack up your stuff, go to cubby, put stuff away, get stuff for next class, etc) he tends to be slow and forget a step etc., which can be 'disruptive.' He is always a beat or a step behind. But it is because he is struggling with motor planning and multitasking - he's a step behind everyone or has to go back for something he forgot, etc. When they start yelling at him and putting him down for it, he may then seek to defend himself by explaining that he struggling (he has said I can't listen right to you while I am trying to pack my bag you need to give me a minute). And that is often seen as being argumentative. He is argumentative - but not in a dysfunctional excessive way. He is very fidgety. He sits in weird ways on his chair and he drops things a lot (pencils, books, supplies) - it is annoying (he's always dropping pencils at home and forks etc.) - his hands are weak - it is not his fault but it is annoying and, then, he is looking for what he dropped, etc. I don't deny that his motor planning problems and fine motor deficits are annoying but they are not purposeful "behaviors" or even, imo, adhd behaviors. He also tends to pace about when he is doing creative writing. Oh and yeah his creative shocks are kind-of weird. I suppose they could be adhd.

During our first P/T conf, teacher basically ambushed me with this big thing on how DS pays no attention whatsoever, at all, ever. Okay, I say, I do not argue. I responded by immediately contacting the renowned ADHD center at our super-great children's hospital for an eval. As part of that teacher had to fill out a BASC2, as you remember. As you may also remember, the BASC was the first time I was hit with her really extremely negative reports of behavior. I mean she made him sound like he was psychotic and totally out of control. I took the completed teacher's form to an iep meeting and went through it with the teacher while recording the meeting (I record all iep meetings now)). I had her explain each extreme response. Her responses were based on so many negative assumptions - not actual observations and she did not answer many of the questions properly or accurately (even "misinterpreting" what some of the questions were actually asking) and I recorded it all. I had to do that because most places will give the teacher's form way more weight than the parents. When the two forms conflict, they consider the parents unreliable (the basc manuals and their training actually instruct this). I needed concrete evidence the teacher's form was unreliable. I submitted all of the forms with the recording. I also submitted all of the in-class observations. I talked a long time with the head of the ADHD clinic about it - lovely woman who actually gave me a consultation just to chat about this without even charging me or my insurance. Considering the EDS and co-morbidity of DCD/dyspraxia with that and the obvious unreliability of the teacher's BASC and what the several in-class observations the school did, it was decided that the ADHD clinic was probably not the best route at this time. To first get him looked at by neurology or neuropsychology for dyspraxia and dysgraphia. And that's where we are now - we have an appointment for that eval with neurology at the end of this month. The school knows that we are getting private evals in response. She knows that in response to her concerns, I contacted ADHD clinic. It's not that I just dismissed her.

So I am not sure why she did what she did on the AT eval form re "behaviors." But I am getting the distinct feeling she wants on him on something - drugs? some sort of behavior modification? or something? I do not know.

Oh, and in terms of medication.. the doc said that if it does turn out to be adhd she doesn't think it severe enough to warrant meds - at least not from what she sees from the in-class observations and my reports. So if teachers' goal is meds - it may not happen anytime soon even with an adhd dx. My friend whose son when to the same clinic was dx with adhd and they did not recommend them using meds at this time... so it does seem this place is conservative about prescribing meds. They do offer various bootcamps and behavior therapies though.

I suspect, fundamentally, her view is that DS does not have a writing disability - that he has adhd and that is why he doesn't 'like to' write and he has behaviors resulting from adhd and poor parenting. She is also pissed that he doesn't follow the "rules" and that I often support him in that - i.e. I send in books for him to read instead of forcing him to only read books from the "basket." She wants him treated as a behavior issue not a learning difference. She has no understanding of giftedness at all. She does not understand dysgraphia and she had never heard of dyspraxia.

Irena, I am do sorry that your ds' teacher has treated him this way. You may remember me talking about my ds' 2nd grade year - he also had a teacher who didn't understand his challenges and who was convinced he had ADHD , waseuther lazy or dumb, and who was constantly reporting behavior "problems" such as being slow to get snow clothes on or staring off into space in class or not producing written work. She was certain he had a low iq because he couldn't write 20 math facts correctly in 2minutes. It's tears later, he's appropriately multi-year accelerated in math and gets straight As without having to burst any brain cells open, and he still wouldn't be able to write down 20 math facts in 2minutes lol!

By the time ds was seen by a neuropsych in the latter part of 2nd grade he was so anxious the neuropsych warned us he needed to be removed from that classroom yesterday, and that he was on the verge of clinical depression - due largely to the classroom situation.

I never did go beyond any type of conversation with the teacher past politically correctly giving her info on ds' challenges and passing along recommendations for accommodations. We requested a change of classrooms for the next year and got it. I was worried at the time that his teacher would negatively talk him/us down in a way that would negatively influence who ds did get as a teacher, but stepping back from the emotion of the situation I realized that none of e teachers really wanted to have a kid in their classroom that they didn't understand or were frustrated with, so we got the teacher we asked for -a teacher who had a very different viewpoint who was much more accepting of kids who are outside the box.

Anyway, not sure I have anything to add except this one the - I'm replying because, yes, I held it in and didn't make a fuss over the teachers treatment of ds and I'm glad I did - I needed to maintain a good working relationship with e school and e only thing that pursuing it would have accomplished at the time would have been to antagonize a highly respected teacher.

OTOH - and this is why I'm replying lol - its almost 7 years later, and I STILL to this day have times when I would just love to go back and share a piece of my mind with that teacher!

I'm trying to do something more positive with those feelings instead, which I can share with you via pm. But I did want to post here to let you know that what you're feeling is so very very very normal in this type of situation.

Btw, please forgive the speeding quirks - I'm on my iPad

How soon is your school year over? I hope it's soon!

polarbear

FWIW, if the teacher knows that you recorded her and shared the recording with the ADHD center in order to undercut her questionnaire, I wouldn't be surprised that she is defensive with you now. From her point of view, you are probably a parent who "doesn't want to see" the "obvious" ADHD that she sees, and she is doing her best to go around you to help him, just like you have been doing your best to go around her to help him. My daughter also "doesn't like" to write (she also has a dysgraphia diagnosis). Her teacher loves her, no question, but still pressures us to consider an ADHD diagnosis for her instead. (She had a tentative diagnosis from her pediatrician on the basis of a BASC questionnaire, which the neuropsych said she thought was not correct.)

This is what I was trying to get at in my post. Whether or not he has ADHD doesn't really matter (or is beside the point), the fact is that she seems convinced that he has it and she is probably convinced he should be medicated. Or, maybe she sees ADHD as a behavior problem that needs to be fixed and not a mental disability. Sorry if it seemed like I was implying your DS is like this other kid (which I know he's not)...it was just an illustration of how some teachers will become very negative about a child in order to get the parents to "see the light." She is probably convinced that you don't get it, you're over-focused on the giftedness (again, not saying you are, but it's probably her perspective), and you're ignoring the fact that he has ADHD symptoms even if you have valid reasons for not buying into the ADHD speculation or see the symptoms differently.

My DS is the same in that he is scatterbrained, forgets what he's doing, etc. Yesterday I told him to change his clothes and he started to put fresh clothes on right over his dirty shirt and jeans. I said "No, you have to take the dirty shirt off first" like he's 2 years old. To someone who does not understand dyspraxia, it probably looks either like ADHD, or like he's not too bright.

I just have to reassure you that this is not actually true. I use the BASC-2 often, and there are most definitely validity checks in it to flag when teachers are being excessively negative in their perceptions, or when their responses are inconsistent, or otherwise unreliable. I just double-checked my manual regarding inconsistencies between teachers and parents, and this is what it says: "It is important to consider, however, that a child might simply behave differently in the presence of one respondent as compared to another, or in one setting versus another. Use of the (observation) or (developmental history) may help clarify whether this is the case." It goes on to suggest that one should obtain ratings from multiple raters, so that one has some possibility for identifying outliers among the raters. (I usually send out between two and four to academic teachers, one or two to parents (say, if the child has a shared custody arrangement), and have the child (above age six) complete one.)

If this comes up again, request that the examiner have multiple ratings done by the school (in an elementary-age student with a single academic teacher, that might mean asking specialist teachers to complete them). You can also have other community members who see the child frequently complete forms, such as coaches, dance teachers, religious ed. teachers, etc.

Irena, I am sorry you are going through this. My son has dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyspraxia and a connective tissue disorder (originally thought it was just EDS type III but could be a more rare mutation). It is such a roller coaster. I don't have any advice. You are doing everything you can. Just know that there is some one else with a similar kid and I struggle too. It is just hard.

You know, I believe it was a clinical manual (I am thinking it may have been by Barkley?) It was a manual specifically about diagnosing ADHD and it was for clinicians and there was a whole section on what to do when the parental BASC and teacher BASC conflict. It went on about how, in such a case, the parent's BASC is to be given less weight due to parental bias. It talked about how parents have a bias so the teacher's is more reliable. It also gave a lot of guidance on how not to communicate this to the parent, how to make them "feel" as though they are being heard but then to not really take the parent seriously. I found it a little disturbing quite frankly. I came across it when I was researching about what happens when the two reports conflict. Now I suppose that it could be out of date, or maybe it is a manual that not every one follows, etc. But the manual was really clear that in the case where there are discrepancies between teacher reports and parents reports, there was no discussion as to considering whether or not the school environment was inappropriate, or whether or the teacher was biased, etc. It was all about how the parents can not be trusted and how to make them feel like they are being heard and trusted while pretty much disregarding them.

That was when I realized I couldn't just *hope* that the doctor/evaluator would look into the appropriateness of the school environment, the teacher's feelings and potential biases, the teacher's possibly misinterpreting certain behaviors, etc. I knew I would have to get her on record with her clarifications as to why she answered how she did and have the evaluator consider those as well.

Excuse my ignorance Irena, but this woman does realize she's a teacher and not a medical doctor, right? It sounds like she's overstepping her professional duty and verging into the territory of offering medical advice without a licence.

Yeah, I agree. It is what it is ...and it is getting offensive and annoying!

aeh, first I want you to know how much I've really valued and appreciated your insight here - thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge with us - I can't tell you how much it's been helpful for those of us dealing with 2e as well as simply gifted children!

With that said, I hope you won't think I'm trying to argue a point you've made - I'm not, just wanted to shed some light on what parents of 2e kids sometimes experience, particularly at school. While there are safeguards in place, things like a misdiagnosis of ADHD based on a teacher's negative ratings can happen, even with trustworthy professionals. Our ds was evaluated by a neuropsych who we highly respect, but he did come away from his 2nd grade neuropsych eval with an ADHD diagnosis based solely on his teacher's BASC rating (she's the teacher I mentioned above). We (parents) anticipated going into his eval that she would be biased based on the communications we'd had with her all year up to that point, so we purposely requested a form also be filled out by that year's 2nd grade student teacher, who'd been in the classroom all year and had ample time to observe our ds in an educational setting. We personally handed forms to both teacher and student teacher, and when the completed "forms" were turned back over to us in sealed envelope (per directions from our neuropsych) the teacher informed us that she told the student teacher not to fill out her form because she didn't have enough experience to be able to fill it out correctly - so we off the top lost a second look at our ds' classroom functioning. The neuropsych showed us the primary teacher's responses and they were all very very "negative" - not really the term I'm looking for, but not descriptive of our ds and indicating he was having horrible difficulties functioning at school. And to be fair, he was having challenges - but not to the degree or of the types listed by the teacher on the BASC. His actual and correct diagnosis is Developmental Coordination Disorder, and he has very severe dysgraphia due to the DCD, plus he moves slowly and clumsily and has other fall-outs from the DCD, plus an expressive language challenge thrown in the mix. So he has some symptoms that look like ADHD, but it's not ADHD.

Having that diagnosis of ADHD on his documentation followed him like wildfire at school too - it was the diagnosis that teachers understood because they see a lot of it, and it was something we had to get past every time we were trying to advocate for his true needs based on his true challenges.

I know that sometimes we probably come across as perhaps paranoid or not trusting (as 2e parents) but some of us have been through some very tough battles advocating at school, and I think we're basically battle-scarred. Perhaps even a bit PTSD (speaking for myself here, not Irena!).

Thanks again for you're helpful insight - it's much appreciated!

polarbear

I think she is just annoyed by DS and by me quite frankly. And she is just voicing that wherever she can find a platform...

KJP, oh no! Sorry you are going through that. Thanks for your kind words ... I hope all is okay with your kiddo. Yes it is a roller coaster .

polarbear,

I do very much understand that many families (probably more in this forum than elsewhere) go through years of frustration, and often more than one unprofessional or incompetent professional.

(And I don't think you're arguing with me! That was a real experience you had, with a teacher who clearly set out to sabotage your attempt to obtain objective data. Plus, there's a reason we homeschool our own.)

I'm in a position to see a fair number of students of various types (and their past evals and interventions) coming out of different school systems, and it is quite apparent that certain settings are more conducive to this situation. I try to do my little bit to change the experience and trajectory for families in a positive direction...

There are certainly as many problem professionals in education as in any other; I guess the difference is that they affect children, who are not in a position to advocate effectively for themselves.

I think most of them somehow ended up in DD's school. Ok that was a joke (probably a bad one). I just don't understand how there can be so many incompetent people there. How could i have sat through an IEP meeting with the principal, teacher, OT and ST and none of them had the foggiest idea how a child would qualify for help with writing. Or else they were being deliberately obtuse which is even worse(although they did seem genuinely clueless, and not particularly interested in finding out either, til I made phone calls and started complaining). And even the special ed director for the district never heard of dysgraphia. When the parents are more educated than the staff, it seems pointless to even try. I've given up this year, in terms of getting something in place for DD. Hopefully different staff at a different school will be better but I'm trying to be realistic.

Some may say that supports for being on-task may be important items for an IEP or 504; Although the subject of your post focuses on his difficulty with written expression and technology supports to accommodate that, the development of other skills may also be necessary to help him fully access the curriculum. The teacher may have been indicating this; If so, it may actually be an area in which you and she agree.

As a separate issue, some parents may coach their children that a child's self-advocacy may be most effective when a child asks for what they feel would support their progress, rather than telling the adult what the adult needs to do. For example, "you need to give me a minute" may be seen by some as affrontive, bossy, and lacking respect for authority, therefore less effective than "would you mind repeating that for me when I have finished this?" or some similar question which invites a partnership.

Supports for it are already in the IEP and have been since last year. So that is not the teacher's goal. The implementation however is often lacking - with the "supports" being an irritated aide shouting a bunch of directives at him at once, walking up behind DS chastizing him and asking him "can he not see why he is so frustrating to everyone?" etc. Yes, we work on how DS talks but it is hard for a kid with this kind of challenge to, at the same time, have to tip-toe around some aide (who is suppose to be supporting him) who is annoyed and chastizing him with his inability to multitask. He now has a very nice para who does not say nasty things to him and it's all good. But that was not the teacher's doing at all - that was mine. I don't think DS's teacher and I agree on anything, quite honestly.

Regarding our discussion of ADHD diagnosing, I thought some of you would find this interesting: many of us have been told or believe that the common practice/thinking is that the criterion that adhd symptoms must be evident in at least two of three settings (home, school, work) and that a child should have sufficient symptoms of ADHD by both parent and teacher report before they can qualify for the diagnosis. This is not necessary apparently. A manual that I read advised that if both reports do not endorse a diagnosis (and it pointed out that when the parent report endorses it, the teacher report almost always does too but often times the problem is you have a teacher report that endorses it and a parent report that doesn't), clinicians should count the number of adhd symptoms reported by the teacher report, and then add to it any additional symptoms endorsed by the parent report, which were not reported by the teacher. In other words, the clinicians were not advised to look at why the child may be symptomatic in one setting and not the other, they will not be reluctant to diagnose if the child is showing symptoms in one setting but not another - rather they will just add all of the symptoms reported and get the diagnosis that way.
Interestingly, the manual did mention to be careful of parents shopping for an adhd diagnosis, but did not express the same concern regarding teachers... Again there seems a general bias against parents in these manuals... That teacher's reports, motivations etc are considered more credible, more reliable, particularly if there are any discrepancies. There is never any concern expressed about the appropriateness of the educational environment, etc.

More accurately, best practice dictates that the symptoms should be present across settings. Also, that there should be multiple raters and methods of data collection, including direct observation. (I make sure to do my own direct observations in at least some of the same settings from whom I receive ratings.) Unfortunately, there are practitioners out there who do not follow either best practice guidelines or good clinical (common) sense. In my experience, it is whoever wants the child out of their hair who pushes for the Dx (often parents, often teachers/staff). I have seen the discrepant reports work both ways. Also, many pediatricians are not qualified to make this diagnosis, either from lack of training, insufficient time/data gathering, or both. Yet they routinely do so, and put kids on psychotropic meds.

Note: I'm not sure what manual you saw, but none of the ones I have imply that parents are less credible. School personnel will automatically lean toward that assumption, though, because the teacher reporters are people they know personally, and with whom they have relationships. Additionally, I think it is safe to say that there is greater diversity in home environments than there is in school environments, which makes the meaning of parent ratings more challenging to interpret than that of teachers. (I mean, some of us think it's okay to do oral algebra problems while kicking a ball into a soccer goal, while others would consider that excessively high levels of activity.)

This is why I think the most productive solution to this problem is to cultivate balanced relationships and cordial communication between parents and school staff as much as possible. ... I know I'm being an idealist, but one can but try!