Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy peer tutoring -- uncomfortable spot

Got an email this morning from another parent in the class.

DD is in a split 4/5 gifted class. She is in 4 but can log on and do her CTY math online during math class, so she ahead.

One of the girls in grade 5 struggles with math. Apparently she asked DD to help her since she has to redo the test (like no child left behind, they can redo is the score is bad). The email asked if DD could provide peer tutoring to her child.
One, I feel this is a huge responsibility for a 9 yo. And DD is short on time.
I responded, allowing for one time, that I would be there and could assist in the tutoring since I felt that helping a child that struggles more in math to have a different tangent in presentation. Since I did some of that when I was in college and teaching high school student that struggled in math.
After I sent the email offering one day next week, the only day DD had available, I felt a little off put.
Advice?

How does your daughter feel about this?

Her first response was feeling cool and flattered that she was asked. But she is 9. I remember a kid in high school approached me in the library. She was really struggling in math. I wanted to help and spent my free period helping her to understand something basic. She was on the non university math track which led to fraction rules in grade 12. It was satisfying that I helped her but I really did not want to spend my future free periods doing this. And it was a struggle. She had a hard time with any concepts let alone math.
I think DD is thinking that they spend a few minutes on math and then have a playdate. She doesn't quite get how a kid doesn't get math.

It's a hard one-- if my child were struggling in math or another core subject, I would be investing in tutoring center and spending extra time helping at home. Peer to peer is nice in that it can help with empathy, but it's a huge responsibility, and a child's learning time should not be taken with tutoring other students (my opinion).

Also, my DS is younger and intense. I would worry that he would start to become frustrated and eventually say something impatient to a struggling child. He's a nice kid and generally patient, but does not have adult reactions and adult empathy.

Totally. I would either help my child or get a tutor.

If my son agreed to help another child, I would help to coordinate that happening. I would also talk to him about reasonable levels of expectation so that he doesn't paint himself into a semi-permanent position along with a little reminder about patience.

Highly dependent upon personality I'd say-- my DD loves helping other kids, and even at 9-10, she was thrilled to do this with her friends and classmates.

BUT-- she had the free time to burn, and she enjoyed it, and she has the right temperment for it. Not all people do.


Personally, I think it's been good for her to see what genuine struggle with a subject looks like, since she has major perfectionism issues and often incorrectly conflates growth with "struggle" herself.

With all of that said, though, she didn't start seriously tutoring math until she was 12 or so.

Teaching someone who is just not getting it is. Very. Frustrating. A 9yo, especially one with emotional intensity, is likely to cause as much harm as help because of their emotional reactions. It takes maturity.

Also, it's 4/5th grade math. It's a black/white, right/wrong subject. That naturally lends itself to a different mindset that is less tolerant of mistakes. My DW recently pointed out what a sharp difference she notices when I work with my DD9 on math (DD's favorite) versus any other subject. Math is the only one where DD has occasional meltdowns.

So I'd say you can tell the other parent that you don't think it's a good idea because your DD's maturity level may not be at the level necessary to maintain her patience and understanding, and exposure to that might actually harm the other child.

They are trying to get (exploit) your kid to do it for free instead of paying someone.

That said, you arranged one meeting so go with that one, but no more. If they suddenly understand everything then no more tutoring is needed, and if not, then they really need to go to a professional.

I would go ahead and go in for the one session you've promised, and use that session to get an idea of where the other student is at, then let the teacher know that the other parent had asked your dd for help. If I were you, I'd drop my involvement at that point, and also my child's. I can't imagine any of my kids (all of whom have wildly different personalities) wanting to be in the position of actually tutoring at 9 years old. If the other student needs tutoring, she needs to be getting it from either an adult or a high school student.

Several posters mentioned that the student's parent should help - I have no way of knowing (and I doubt wren knows either unles she knows the parent) if the parent is simply trying to get easy, free help and is shirking their own responsibilities, or if the parent genuinely doesn't understand how to help their child with the math. Making the teacher aware of the request allows the teacher to address the situation - in any number of ways, depending on the child and parents' abilities. It might be as simple as the teacher giving the student extra help, or finding help for the student within the school, or making a recommendation for a specific outside school tutoring group.

If you do this, you've extended your help, let your dd help, and you've passed along the info to a logical next-step person who should be able to help set up the student for ongoing help.

polarbear

That was also my gut, cynical reaction. The only thing that might indicate otherwise, is that it sounds as though the child herself has requested the peer...

The email came from the parent.

I did it all the time when I was in early elementary. And I loved it! For me it was just another form of playdate. We just "played school". I wouldn't have any issues with my kids tutoring other kids if THEY wanted to do it. Not just because I would tell them to do it, of course. I'd think the child who needs help might find it easier to take help from another child that an adult.

I am surprised by all the "get the child a paid tutor" responses. Nothing wrong with helping someone just for the good of helping someone.

... didn't mean to sound rude or judgmental in my previous comment. I'm just surprised

You are completely wrong about this. I used to think this, and the results have been devastating. Unfortunately we live in a world where being altruistic can expose you to extreme danger.

It is unlikely that the OP's case is that extreme, but it may not be purely benign either.

I'd back out on assistance and say after giving it more thought, your DD can't spare the time. I think the initial request was inappropriate. A 9 year old should not be responsible for the academic success of a peer. Answering a few quick questions on an ad hoc basis? Maybe if you're both on board. But for a potentially ongoing relationship, other more appropriate resources, like the teacher, have a legitimate duty to the underperforming student.

There are a number of reasons why I think the request was inappropriate:

1. Work/favours are being marketed as a social/play opportunity, which they aren't. That's a manipulative play with your daughter's emotions.

2. Information asymmetry-- you don't know the source or extent of the child's need for assistance. What if the child has a LD? Your DD is in no way qualified to address that and could cause more harm than good.

3. Knowing the socioeconomics of your neighborhood, I'm going to infer that the child's parents can do elementary level math, which begs the question of why they aren't stepping up to the plate. Are these the kind of people who share your values? If not, why begin a relationship with them? They should have approached the teacher to explore the option of peer tutoring first, and had the teacher facilitate.

4. If your daughter is being called in to do work, they should at least offer to pay her. That they aren't makes me agree with 22B that the parents are being exploitative.

5. Perhaps most importantly, your DD's time. She only had one free day, and now it's going to be spent working. I think the value of free time is underestimated.

Well for point 3 I would suspect the parents learnt a very different way to the way the child is being taught now and they are confused. As for the rest I don't know. Do the first thing and take it from there. I remember losing maths at one point and it turned out to be I was looking for meaning where there wasn't any.

Thank you everyone. This was very helpful.
I wrote an email to the teacher and asked for her input. I mentioned that DD's mind rushes and she may not be up for the task of trying to explain math well and it could be a negative outcome.

I also talked to DD and explained this was not a playdate. They would have an hour only because the girl had ballet and they were expected to work on math the whole time.

BTW, this talk happened after I picked her up from the school bus and we were walking the dog on the beach on a beautiful day, so she had to balance the idea of sitting and helping someone with math instead.

I suggested that she try and do some tutoring on Mon during school and see how that went and then she could decide about Tues.

Then, I just get this email from the parent asking if Sunday plans change could we fit in a session? We have a playdate tomorrow starting at 12:30, for the afternoon and then we have a dinner party and Sunday she has a horse back riding lesson plus we have to hit Costco and then we see the Chinese tutor. Not fitting this in. I am not close to being altruistic to fit it in. And we have to walk the dog along the beach for an hour or so. Sorry but I got irked by the email and regretting agreeing to one session.

Anyway, I think between the Monday at school attempt and the teacher interceding, I have a feeling it won't be happening.

Again, thanks. input was excellent.

Sounds like the right decision to me, Wren. Glad that you're enlisting the teacher's help.

I find it an amusing coincidence that DS8 now just happens to be reading about Phylum Porifera.

Haha!

Wren, glad you found a solution you're satisfied with. You and your DD were put in an awkward position.

A bit late to this but I would like to add:

My son's teacher is using him as a peer helper in his second-grade class (this is the way she is differentiating for him). She refuses to expose him to any new math concepts past what the rest of the class is working as "he won't have the explanation". She and he differ on what "peer helper" means.

She thinks he should stand by, ready to assist the other student and actively helping them to work through the problem.

He thinks he should explain it and allow them the privacy to work through it and make mistakes. When he moves away from the other student, the teacher thinks he is "losing interest and wandering away."

My son FEELS resentful that he is being asked to help other students while being held back in math himself. He doesn't have a problem helping others and is very social but there is a communication gap between he and his teacher that I bridge.

Just another 0.02. :-)

I think that kids will naturally help one another if they need it and without a lot of adult intervention. I remember playing school with a friend myself and teaching her long division. However I think that type of altruism should be internally motivated and not parent directed or laden with any expectations on the kids part.

For a teacher to task a child with helping other children in lieu of having their own educational needs met is unethical. Minx, your son has every right to feel resentful at this. To me it smacks of slavery (this kid doesn't get to learn, he just has to help the other kids -- and clean the blackboards). I imagine myself in this situation presenting the teacher with a bill for my child's tutoring services (though my imagination is way more snarky than I am in real life). I consider this sort of thing completely unacceptable.

My only fear is the school turning around and suggesting that I should be paying the going rate for full-time tuition at the local teacher's college.

(You can see that my imagination just goes to a more sinister snarky place. Heh.)

Reading that thoughtful and extensive list reminded me of a somewhat similar situation in which a child was invited, then grilled by the inviting parent. One never knows what one's child may be walking into, what they may need to be prepared for. Especially in these days of nanny-cams when one's responses may be recorded.

I agree with the others who said they are trying to get free tutoring. Not cool.
I probably would have done the same thing you did, consent and then rethought and felt wrong about it!

If the other mom wanted you to squeeze her kid in on a Sunday, whee-doggie! That's some chutzpah. It's typically a family day to spend time together.

Are you a Common Core state? Maybe that's why the parent doesn't feel confident in helping her child do the math in 108 specific steps with arrays, line jumps, and graphs.

I think it was right to alert the teacher since it is possible they didn't know how much the child is struggling.

If anything, I'd give her a list of helpful websites that help explain the concept if you have some faves to share. Does her school do Study Island or IXL? Her teacher can assign things via those sites to help get her up to speed.

Really, your child has a pretty full plate with everything else.

Outcome: DD helped her in school a bit yesterday, after she logged onto CTY and did a problem set for herself.

And it seemed to go well and she felt like she was obligated to this session today, so I picked them up and brought them here. The girl had dance at 5:30, so her father picked her up at 5, a little over an hour.

It went OK. I sat nearby reading and interceded at one point when DD was explaining lowest common denominator and gave examples.

I didn't listen closely but at one point, I heard a condescending: "you think 7x3 is 18?".

DD admitted it was harder than she expected to teach someone who has a hard time understanding. There won't be anymore. Luckily the teacher doesn't expect her to do this. I did explain that she had agreed to help and now felt obligated to this one session so I think the teacher helped out at school. DD logs on and does her CTY math during school, never expected to help other kids, just to clarify. It was the other parents that were trying to do this.

I talked with the mother last evening and she thinks they just dropped the ball when it came to math homework. This kid did not learn multiplication tables. At some point you need to memorize them, like learning to read. If you really don't know quickly 6x3 is 18, it is going to be difficult finding lowest common denominators, and so on and so forth. I told DD, after the call, and she actually made a table for the girl to fill in....

If you felt like being especially sweet, you could point out-- the old Schoolhouse Rock videos are all on YouTube at this point, and those do make it more FUN to practice them unto memorization.