Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Math questions: support/ enrichment

I am trying to figure out how best to support my ds7 in math. He is currently a 1st grader who is above grade level. His strength is verbal abilities. He is obviously not "bad" at math, but is quite insecure with his ability and knowledge level. Also, since he hates repetition, his fluency is definitely not where his ability is, but slowly improving.

He has recently discovered that he understands multiplication and can accurately solve problems. Yet, he surely has not memorized them. He now wants to move on to division. Shouldn't multiplication speed improve first?

He was given work from the gt teacher on ixl (which he hates). It's addition/ subtraction multi digit through 6th grade. (Does this mean kids are still doing +/- in 6th grade?) What I noticed when he worked on it is that he could easily do this math (somehow) in his head, but had trouble "showing his work". So, I've left it alone for now.

Last year, I bought MUrderous Maths. Unfortuneately, I thought it was more interesting than ds.

I just purchased LOF- just book 1. (Not sure if ds would like it.) It seems too easy. I'm wondering if I should try it (maybe with ds3.5 who is mathy)? If it would be better to start with a different LOF book? Does order matter for the story or the math?

Overall, I'm trying to support him. I want him to feel more confident in this area(s) while attempting to feed the need for new concepts. Thoughts? Thanks.

(Btw, this is never pushed on him. It is he who asks. Ex: His goal for 1st grade written on day1 of school was to learn division. I do think him seeing questions on MAP testing that he has no idea how to answer, cause great anxiety and determination to learn the concept to decrease the anxiety.)

When I was considering it I was advised to start with LoF Apples even if it was too easy - you can go fast, or read it to both kids together.

Puffin, thanks.

Melessa, I'm also trying to sort it all out as I go along so while I have no BTDT experiences to share, I have been thinking about this a lot.

If exposure to new concepts is your purpose, then I personally wouldn't worry about following an orthodox scope and sequence as long as your DS is enjoying the learning process.

If home ends up being his main place of math instruction because of homeschooling or afterschooling, then it becomes a whole different story but I'm not sure if you're heading down that road right now.

My plan for DD if we go homeschooling route is to get her through SM while supplementing it with both Montessori math materials and other "fun" resources like Beast Academy and iPad apps. I tend to lean towards unschooling side of things in general but when it comes to math, I like to know where we're going and how we're getting there.

I would have thought he would have started learning division in kindergarten? 6 piece of candy, 2 kids, how much does each one get? Are you (/he) thinking of long division?

Has he been shown multiplication tables like this 4 X 3 = 12 leads to 12 / 3 = 4 at school?

Expat Mama- I guess I do mean long division. (He does understand the above division- primitively- with pictures or word problems, not straight up facts.)

He has not been shown anything about multiplication or division. His exposure is via Compass Learning (time for learning for homeschoolers). Map scores somehow talk to Compass and give him activities that "he is ready to learn".

He has found a way to listen to the explanation once and fast forward to the quiz (if he gets it). It's an interesting concept, but bothers me that he's learning sololy from this program. I just try to provide support if the explanation seems wierd or he starts to get frustrated. It sort of works, but I would like another source in addition. I also know this program is on the edge of being not liked anymore.

Melessa,

I think the challenge with a "verby" kid is that verbal tasks come so easily to them, that math seems RELATIVELY difficult (and a DC's initial or eventual approach may be to want to avoid math altogether).

DD8, who is my extremely verbal DC, hit a "crisis" point with math in 2nd grade. Her school starts math differentiation in 2nd grade. DD was placed in the top group. DD's best friend seems to be HIGHLY gifted in math and would often finish math tasks more quickly. There were also some boys who were simply quicker at math facts than her at the beginning of the year. There was definitely an emphasis placed on speed in 2nd grade, as the teacher was striving for math fact automaticity. DD, who had for the past two years been used to having everything at school come so easily, now suddenly decided she was "stupid." (She has consistently scored 98-99% on math standardized tests, so it is a "relative" weak area - emphasis on relatively!). She routinely announced in 2nd grade that she "hated" math (DD tends to be a bit intense and dramatic, too)! I was horrified! 2nd grade is a bit young to start hating a subject!

We did offer her extra support and encouragement that year in math, and she seems to have gotten over it. She is still in the top math group, is doing great in it, and is making excellent progress. I think she has also gotten used to the differentiated math class. She still doesn't seem to love routine calculation and she is prone to silly mistakes because she tends to work quickly to "get through it." She recently started doing EPGY at home to "challenge herself," and had been progressing nicely. But I don't hear "I hate math" constantly now, either!

I do think kids that are very strong in one area tend to find that as their "comfort zone." DD needed a little push out of her comfort zone.

DD actually enjoyed several LOF books before loosing interest in them. Different DC may need different resources and approaches. My 2 DC differ from one another, so I try to offer different things up and we go with what they tend to like.

For instance, DS5, who seems to be more naturally "mathy," is doing Dreambox math at home. He's still in K, and we are pretty low-key about it. His strengths/weaknesses/preferences seem to be the absolute reverse of my DD. He has been able to read since he was 3, like his sister, but would prefer to do math. He also plays chess, and I do believe this builds spatial ability.

Dreambox seems geared towards the younger set. EPGY is drier, and probably works better for older children.

Melessa,dd4.5 loves math and is very mathy. She is not a fluent reader and does not enjoy reading. So kind of opposite but I have tried several math books with her including ixl, singapore math, and brainquest. he was finding 2nd grade math too easy and boring on all the three and I did not think she was ready for 3rd grade. So instead I got her this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Math-Gifted-Student-Challenging-Activities/dp/1411434331
Both of us love it. There is very little repetition and you actually have to think through the problems. I started her on first grade but planning to get the second grade soon. Barnes and Nobles has them, if you want to check them out at a store.
On another point in your post, DD can do multiplication and division even though she hasn't memorized any facts. She just uses various self-invented shortcuts. So I don't think you have to master the facts before moving on to advanced concepts with these kids. Once you give them a problem, they will use the tools they have or be motivated to learn the tools they need. I don't think learning the facts as an end goal would appeal to our kids. HTH

DS is the same age (first grade, just turned 7) and learned all of the multiplication facts last summer doing Big Brainz (or Timez Attack) online. There is a free version and a Deluxe version that's $20 for 3 months or something. He LOVED it because it was like a video game. I don't think he cared much about the math, he just loved the game. I know other kids who have tried it and were frustrated (because it is a fluency game and they need to put in correct answers within a few seconds), so it just depends on the kid. It starts out with a few facts and when a kid masters them it moves them on to a few more facts and reviews the facts later to make sure they are retained. They also have this for addition/subtraction facts.

DD is currently in third grade and the math curriculm teaches multplication and divison simultaneously. So you learn 5X4=20 and 20/4=5 at the same time. Not sure if that's a great idea or not. I just taught DS that division is the reverse of multiplication after he learned all of the mult. facts.

Thanks for all the thoughts!

blackcat- my ds did use timez attack a bit. However, it usually ends in frustration because of speed, finding the number, and typing it in. Since he feels he's bad at math, he assumed he wasn't ready/too hard until it profiled in his Compass Learning profile.

lovemydd- I really like all those flashkid books. I should look through what I have.

Loy58- How you describe your dd sounds very similar to my ds. I identified with much of what you wrote.

He doesn't want to "fail" by not knowing the answer.( Actually, his high math group is all girls and him.) he also rushes through his work and doesn't want to check for easy mistakes. Hopefully, we can help him feel more confident while still have fun learning:)