|
0 members (),
127
guests, and
50
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948 |
But, at my school AP classes give one a +1 grade for the GPA and a community college class doesn't. If you are playing the admission to university game, an A in the AP class helps the GPA and the community college class doesn't. I understand what you're saying and yes, if you're playing a game of class rank and GPA, then I suppose you'd be majorly concerned about weighted grades, however, if you're more concerned about actually preparing your child for college, I'd argue that the college classes are much more beneficial. Rarely with GT students is their intellectual ability or prior course work their biggest downfall in college, much more often is time management, organization, unfamiliar surroundings, a new environment, etc. Items that taking college classes at a local college are more likely to help with. Class rank and GPA are over rated and everyone here knows it, as do many colleges. Do some colleges still use them heavily for entrance? Some yes, others seek a well rounded student who has challenged themselves in many arenas. Once you've got entrance, your prior GPA and class rank mean beans but your personal experience and how it affects your college years means a great deal and has a lasting impression. So I guess it's up to each parent to decide whether they want to play the GPA / class rank game with emphasis on college applications, or focus on actual experience that more closely reflects the conditions their child will be facing in college. I agree with you re: class rank and college applications. But for me, AP classes with bright same-age peers were for more interesting and engaging than classes I took at community colleges, which were of the type that made me want to stab myself with a pencil. I think that the AP classes will be appropriately challenging and stimulating for my daughter in a way that I do not believe community college classes would be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 423
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 423 |
I agree with you re: class rank and college applications. But for me, AP classes with bright same-age peers were for more interesting and engaging than classes I took at community colleges, which were of the type that made me want to stab myself with a pencil. I think that the AP classes will be appropriately challenging and stimulating for my daughter in a way that I do not believe community college classes would be. We had the opposite experience with our eldest DS. By taking college classes in community college, he was finally surrounded by more mature (relative I realize) people he was more comfortable with being around. The variety of classes offered at the community college obviously far exceeded the AP class listings as well so he could focus on his particular interests rather than having them being so limited by AP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,250 Likes: 4
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,250 Likes: 4 |
...I see the standards being applied differently by race which flies in the face of everything I was brought up to believe - that all should be treated on their merits alone. Frankly, I think that it is insulting and degrading for these students to expect less from them. Agreed. Have you seen the book Please Stop "Helping" Us? My daughter will be going to what seems to be a pressure cooker of a high school, and the kids take tons of AP classes... My impression is that they are for sure not dumbed down, nor are they drudgery, and that the teachers in general are very engaging. The marketing and the lived experience may, in many cases, differ. Class rank and GPA are over rated and everyone here knows it, as do many colleges. Do some colleges still use them heavily for entrance? Some yes, others seek a well rounded student who has challenged themselves in many arenas. Once you've got entrance, your prior GPA and class rank mean beans but your personal experience and how it affects your college years means a great deal and has a lasting impression. Agreed! By taking college classes in community college, he was finally surrounded by more mature (relative I realize) people he was more comfortable with being around. Agreed!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,489
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,489 |
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with AP classes, I'm thankful for them, I'm simply saying that I grow tired of people's over emphasis on GPA and class rank and everyone I know looks back and thinks themselves silly for such emphasis. If you want to focus on AP classes, wonderful, however, do so for the right reasons. I know class rank & GPA are overrated. And yes I would prefer to completely ignore it but it's a reality if one wants to get into a competitive university. Locally I notice more kids take college classes during the summer, because they can be difficult to fit in during the school year. I am certainly open to my son taking classes at college instead of at the high school. But I am also not entirely sure community classes are necessary better than AP classes at teaching college readiness. I think it entirely depends on the curriculum, teaching style, grading style, and what peers are in either class. And this depends on the quality of the teaching in the H.S. or the college. Many of my DS14 in 9th grade classes already depend more heavily on test grades than some community college classes for example.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181 |
I agree, Bluemagic. It's easy to SAY that you won't "play the game" but quite another when it means major tuition waivers on the line, or (more) elite college admission.
Also agree with Deacongirl-- my DD has been able to figure out in a hurry which of her AP classmates are HG/HG+, (and they her) simply by who seems to be ENJOYING the class and not finding it overwhelming, etc. It took her exactly 15 minutes to make the same determination in an honors COLLEGE course when she visited the program she'll be attending in the fall, too. There is a range of ability in any group educational setting-- and most HG+ kids are going to find themselves near the top of it either way. Yes, the EF skills may not measure up to that cognitive mark, but I'm not sure how increased DEMAND on EF at a younger age really accomplishes much. I suspect it may depend on the individual teen-- some of them can "rise to the expectations" and some of them might be demoralized by failing to do so adequately.
Those are her peers-- not the ones point-grubbing, whining, and moaning about the workload.
While I personally probably prefer the IB model, it's not a reality for a lot of us who live in areas which are non-urban.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181 |
Agreed. Which is why I don't necessarily agree with credit-by-exam for AP.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948 |
[quote=deacongirl] My daughter will be going to what seems to be a pressure cooker of a high school, and the kids take tons of AP classes... My impression is that they are for sure not dumbed down, nor are they drudgery, and that the teachers in general are very engaging. The marketing and the lived experience may, in many cases, differ. [quote=indigo] Well, I am basing my expectations not on marketing, but knowing teachers, my daughter's peers, former and current students at the high school, and their parents.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 228
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 228 |
I think it just depends on the student. Contrary to many posters, we've had a great experience with AP classes at our local HS. It offers 23 official AP courses (audited by AP), although those can lead to more than 23 AP tests (for example, studio art can be customized for the 2D, 3D or drawing AP). Both my dds found that many were just as difficult as the classes they encountered in college; when older dd had to retake introductory biology, because that was her major, she felt that it was easy compared to her AP Bio class. We liked AP classes because of the peers. In our area, the gifted/smart kids gravitate towards AP classes as a rule, and the more average students take the community college classes, although I'm sure there are exceptions. DS will take his first AP course next year in 9th grade (AP World History) and I envision about 10 overall. Too much would be if he couldn't continue to do running, music, chess, math, etc... in addition to schoolwork, or when he feels stressed out. But what we found was that these classes were not necessarily a ton more work; they were just the right level. And as far as the weighting/college "game"- well, yeah, we do play that. We've got four kids who need college tuition. As far as we can tell, colleges are still paying a LOT of attention to test scores and GPA. One dd got full tuition and the other got nearly half (and finished in 3 years), in part due to AP/GPA/test scores. Now they are out of school and debt free, so again, I'd like to ignore that stuff, but in our case, it definitely helped!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948 |
I think it just depends on the student. Contrary to many posters, we've had a great experience with AP classes at our local HS. It offers 23 official AP courses (audited by AP), although those can lead to more than 23 AP tests (for example, studio art can be customized for the 2D, 3D or drawing AP). Both my dds found that many were just as difficult as the classes they encountered in college; when older dd had to retake introductory biology, because that was her major, she felt that it was easy compared to her AP Bio class. We liked AP classes because of the peers. In our area, the gifted/smart kids gravitate towards AP classes as a rule, and the more average students take the community college classes, although I'm sure there are exceptions. DS will take his first AP course next year in 9th grade (AP World History) and I envision about 10 overall. Too much would be if he couldn't continue to do running, music, chess, math, etc... in addition to schoolwork, or when he feels stressed out. But what we found was that these classes were not necessarily a ton more work; they were just the right level. And as far as the weighting/college "game"- well, yeah, we do play that. We've got four kids who need college tuition. As far as we can tell, colleges are still paying a LOT of attention to test scores and GPA. One dd got full tuition and the other got nearly half (and finished in 3 years), in part due to AP/GPA/test scores. Now they are out of school and debt free, so again, I'd like to ignore that stuff, but in our case, it definitely helped! This sounds like my daughter's school. She is also hoping to get AP credit so that she can have the intro. classes out of the way and dive right into what she is really interested in in college. Right now she has plans for a double major plus a minor haha! Or plans to graduate in 3 yrs. Either way, I believe the AP courses she will take will benefit her in many ways.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,250 Likes: 4
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,250 Likes: 4 |
23 official AP courses (audited by AP) It is interesting that "audit" is a word which can mean many things to many people, depending upon one's background and experiences. For example, to an accountant or CPA, an "audit" may mean a complete review: The IRS "audits" selected tax returns. To a student "audit" may mean taking a class without making a payment or receiving credit: it is full exposure to course materials. In the case of AP courses, "audit" essentially means pre-approval at a very high level, an overview based upon an institution's course syllabus. This does not delve into the curricular content to assess quality, depth, rigor, or relevance. http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/ AP courses and AP exams are separate (but related) educational opportunities: Students may take an AP course and choose to register and sit for the associated AP exam; Students may take an AP course and choose NOT to register and sit for the associated AP exam; Students may study on their own and choose to register and sit for the associated AP exam. College Board owns the rights to the designation "AP"; Only courses audited by the College Board may be called AP; It is my understanding that any other courses or materials utilized by students to study for an AP exam (for example, studies undertaken by home schooled students) may NOT be transcripted as an "AP course" but may be called "prep for AP exam".
|
|
|
|
|
