Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments How many is too many when it comes to AP?

To answer that you really need to understand the history of the AP exams. (See the AP exam web site.) Originally, AP tests were exams that the college board created to test if a student mastered college level material. And a list of what information the students would be tested on. Individual schools were left to implement this as they see fit. As the years have gone on the college board has included material in how to design an AP course. And these tests have included more and more information. There originally wasn't any rule as to how a high school implemented the class, although that has changed.

AP tests have a flaw that they don't really equal specific college classes, partly because not all colleges implement these subjects in the same way. They are in the middle of re-writing the curriculum to many of the popular test for various reasons. Supposedly they have had the help of U.S. colleges & universities in working on these changes. This is the first year for the new AP Biology Test, and next year the first year for the AP U.S. History test for example. The reasons for this are that many of them were a mile wide and an inch deep. Take US History for example that is supposed to cover the entire 400+ years of US History.

In addition not all universities accept all AP's as credit, some expect that you will have taken them just to get accepted. It is not a perfect system. I am anxious to see how the new changes affect the AP tests.

Edited to add: In order to get college credit one has to take the AP EXAM and get a 3,4, or 5 on it. This is ONE exam, not multiple exams all year. College classes usually have at least 2 if not 3 exams. One year of AP is supposed to be equivalent to one semester at college, but that varies depending on subject and university.

Many of the tests used to be a mile wide and an inch deep. (Supposedly many of these in the process of a rewrite.) This means instead of studying a subject at depth like one should at a college level, kids were simply memorizing huge amounts of data just in case it was on the test. This is the first year of the AP Biology test and the students no longer have to study the "organ" of the day.

While out school district only offers about 8 total AP courses, the local community college is directly across the street from the high school and the school district simply pays for students to take desired classes there when they've exhausted the curriculum of a given subject matter. I've found I very much like that arrangement as it requires students to better prepare themselves, providing their own transportation, finding parking, additional scheduling conflicts, time management, becoming accustomed to unfamiliar professors and students.....sound more like college?

Sounds like a good solution to me.

But, at my school AP classes give one a +1 grade for the GPA and a community college class doesn't. If you are playing the admission to university game, an A in the AP class helps the GPA and the community college class doesn't.

Agree with BlueMagic. That is the same situation that my DD found herself in this year. She was given the option of doing mostly college courses this year, and chose to take AP which are dual enrollment instead, simply because of the weighted GPA.

Evidently the local college thinks that there is nothing wrong with the AP coursework, though-- they were happy to give 2 quarters' worth of credit for the English and the math both.

For some AP courses/exams, there isn't a "college equivalent" course. AP Physics B is like that. The coverage is simply too much-- no ONE YEAR course at the college level covers all of what is in it. Yes, it's possible to cram an inch deep and a mile wide and get by on the exam, but truthfully, DD and her best friend both actually learned the material that well. She didn't bother taking the AP exam, but he easily rocked a 5.

So that's where I'm coming from when I say that actually, these classes CAN be a really great fit for an HG+ student, since they move at a pace and over SO much material that nobody else can keep up with it. But it's a pace that is probably as close to "ideal" as a kid like mine is going to get, short of college. So especially for young accelerants in particular, AP is a pretty sweet thing, I'd say-- less demand on still-developing EF (unlike a college course) and less damage long term if they make mistakes (more assignments, and let's face it, high school isn't college in terms of transcripts).

That vetting done by College Board may have hurt some very high quality AP coursework, but at the same time, I think it also means that ANY student who takes an AP class is at least assured of some minimal standard that passes muster. TEACHERS have to be 'certified' in the subject by College Board, as well. This is particularly important, IMO, in Math and Science.

I tend to agree. Because the College Board approves courses by looking at the syllabus, it is rather like judging a book by its cover. The actual course curriculum and content does not necessarily meet any criteria for quality, depth, rigor, or relevance. The College Board website pages for AP provide a list of recommended text books, facilitating self-study.

When a student self-studies or homeschools in preparation for an AP exam, families may be on their own for getting the student scheduled to sit for the AP exam. If a parent creates a transcript for the self-study course, and when a student refers to their self-study, they may not call it an "AP" course as that designation may only come from College Board; rather they may call it prep for AP exam.

Students may also take CLEP exams to earn college credit at some colleges/universities.

I see the AP classes being dumbed down to make them more accessible as the notion that only strong students need apply appears to be an anathema these days. I can only see it getting worse by the time that my DD takes them in six years or so. I am more inclined to put the energy in IB classes instead.

These will likely be far more useful when DD is applying to European universities - I have just about given up on US ones. I would be fine paying full tuition if I were genuinely supporting excellent students from home environments with limited means but that's isn't what I see.

Painting with a broad brushing know but I see the standards being applied differently by race which flies in the face of everything I was brought up to believe - that all should be treated on their merits alone. Frankly, I think that it is insulting and degrading for these students to expect less from them.

A student who is on the fence regarding taking an additional AP course and exam can look at the schedule of AP exam dates (I assume they are published well in advance), since students do worse on AP exams taken close together:

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18436
The Impact of Time Between Cognitive Tasks on Performance: Evidence from Advanced Placement Exams
Ian Fillmore, Devin G. Pope
NBER Working Paper No. 18436
Issued in October 2012

In many education and work environments, economic agents must perform several mental tasks in a short period of time. As with physical fatigue, it is likely that cognitive fatigue can occur and affect performance if a series of mental tasks are scheduled close together. In this paper, we identify the impact of time between cognitive tasks on performance in a particular context: the taking of Advanced Placement (AP) exams by high-school students. We exploit the fact that AP exam dates change from year to year, so that students who take two subject exams in one year may have a different number of days between the exams than students who take the same two exams in a different year. We find strong evidence that a shorter amount of time between exams is associated with lower scores, particularly on the second exam. Our estimates suggest that students who take exams with 10 days of separation are 8% more likely to pass both exams than students who take the same two exams with only 1 day of separation.

I understand what you're saying and yes, if you're playing a game of class rank and GPA, then I suppose you'd be majorly concerned about weighted grades, however, if you're more concerned about actually preparing your child for college, I'd argue that the college classes are much more beneficial. Rarely with GT students is their intellectual ability or prior course work their biggest downfall in college, much more often is time management, organization, unfamiliar surroundings, new expectations, etc. Items that taking college classes at a local college are more likely to help with.

Class rank and GPA are over rated and everyone here knows it, as do many colleges. Do some colleges still use them heavily for entrance? Some yes, others seek a well rounded student who has challenged themselves in many arenas. Once you've got entrance, your prior GPA and class rank mean beans but your personal experience and how it affects your college years means a great deal and has a lasting impression. So I guess it's up to each parent to decide whether they want to play the GPA / class rank game with emphasis on college applications, or focus on actual experience that more closely reflects the conditions their child will be facing in college.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with AP classes, I'm thankful for them, I'm simply saying that I grow tired of people's over emphasis on GPA and class rank and everyone I know looks back and thinks themselves silly for such emphasis. If you want to focus on AP classes, wonderful, however, do so for the right reasons.

My daughter will be going to what seems to be a pressure cooker of a high school, and the kids take tons of AP classes. She will be (hopefully, waiting on acceptance) in the International Spanish Academy which means she will take AP Spanish Language, AP Spanish Lit., AP English, AP US History, AP Govt and Econ., maybe AP European History? They start right away freshman year with AP Human Geography. I think she will enjoy those classes. It will be harder to determine what to do about the math and science. I don't want her to be overloaded, particularly in areas she isn't passionate about. My impression is that they are for sure not dumbed down, nor are they drudgery, and that the teachers in general are very engaging. But there is only so much time in the day and she will also be doing orchestra and theater, so I suspect she will decide on her own not to take AP math and science as she progresses.