Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy GT school not enough for DS - what now?

After so much stress and worry over getting my DS 8 (2nd grade) into the dedicated GT magnet public school, the honeymoon period is over and DS has started to check out some. This was my biggest fear He loved it at first because it was a lot different than the experience he had in private the last 2 years. Things seemed to be going well through the end of December but lately, he has been having trouble staying engaged telling me he already knows everything and sometimes it's boring. This is with the whole classroom and school being full of gifted kids and specialized gifted teachers with gifted curriculum. He has been reading when he is supposed to be paying attention to something else, distracting other kids with his talking, rolling around on the floor when it's not appropriate, impulse control issues, and last week, lightly "punched" another kid (in his stomach area) but said it was just a joke. That one got me a call from the teacher (that is not normal for him to do)

She told me that she has used all the methods she knows to engage him but that she has never had a kid that required so much more than she knows how to accommodate. Yikes. As a reminder, I've got a kid with visual processing and sensory issues (in visual therapy now and did some OT last year) who is probably in the 99th+ range (visual issues affected IQ score - scattered all over the place - will retest later).

She is going to start talking with other teachers, principal, VP, to see what they can come up with for further differentiation for him, particularly in math and science (I would argue for everything...). I'm also not sure if we need to start looking at possibly having an IEP. Can you get an IEP for sensory? That process sounds so intimidating.

So for you experienced parents - what should we be asking for from a GT school where your kid is beyond the other gifted kids? I know a lot will depend on the district and school but I think we are probably going to end up in meetings at some point and I want to have some suggestions, ideas, etc and sound somewhat intelligent.

bronalex, it sounds like the school is proactively working to provide differentiation - and that's huge!

I don't have time to think about what I'd ask re the gifted side of things at the moment, but wanted to address the question about an IEP for sensory challenges. I am guessing that in your ds' case what you need is a 504 plan, not an IEP. A 504 plan outlines accommodations that make school accessible for students with disabilities; an IEP is put in place for students who need individualized instruction. In our ds' case - if your school district offers them - a *gifted* IEP would be appropriate, but if you wanted an IEP for sensory issues you'd have to be able to show that he needed some type of remediation for those issues to be successful in the classroom. Most likely what he needs are accommodations - things like sitting on a bouncy ball or bumpy cushion, wearing ear plugs to drown out background noise, sensory "breaks" where he is able to go to a quiet room for a while during class, etc - those are all examples of typical sensory-related accommodations. The one reason he might qualify for an IEP for sensory issues is if he qualified for sensory OT - and if he did, and if you don't mind him missing class for a pull-out, I'd give it a try. Our dd had private sensory OT and it was *wonderful* for her.

Hope that helps a bit -

polarbear

ps - your ds has had VT hasn't he? Has that helped at all? I'm wondering how much of what looks like sensory is actually vision related? That's another thing you'll need to think about (probably) - vision. Does your dd need accommodations allowing him to sit close to the board etc.

Have you thought about a grade skip? That helped my DS so there wasn't as much differentiation required.

Bronalex, my son, who has sensory issues, is younger than yours, so I don't have any advice - just a referral. I'm currently reading "Raising a Sensory Smart Child" L. Biel, and this book has a whole chapter devoted to advocating for your child at school and creating an IEP for SPD. The book includes IEP basics, pros and cons of Push In, Pull Out, After School and Private OT, strategies and personal perspectives from mothers in the trenches.

Another book I just finished by Lindsay Biel, "Sensory Processing Challenges: Effective Clinical Work with Kids & Teens" provides more detailed strategies on how sensory issues can present as behavioral issues and how to help your child in situations at school - including recess, fire drills, lunch, writing, etc.
I HIGHLY recommended both books.

On a side note, not sure if this is valid for your situation, but my son's OT said that sometimes when my son rolls on the ground, he is seeking sensory input to regulate himself.

polarbear - yes he has been in VT and we are a little over half way through the program. We saw the fastest improvements in the first couple of months. His tracking has improved tremendously and I think his eyes don't get as tired anymore. His classroom is flexible so he can move if he needs to but it doesn't seem to be causing an issue in school (at least I don't think!). He has another eval this week with the dr and I will ask if he thinks he should have some accommodations in school.

We did private OT for 6 months so I don't know if that means anything for the school. Some of the coordination/vestibular issues have improved although he is never going to be an athlete. He is doing swimming lessons now through therapeutic rec (for sensory - he hates water on his head/face and is terrified of drowning) and has a tough time even learning how to kick his legs correctly. He also has weak core and fine motor strength (like his hands). I've backed off home OT while we are doing VT because it was too much to do in one day (swimming lessons are sort of like OT, I think). I'm already having a tough time getting him to do home VT.

Where he runs into trouble in school I think is the fidgety stuff, impulse control, being "too high", being in his own world, etc. I struggle with understanding whether this is sensory processing or excitabilities from a highly gifted kid or a gifted kid who is bored. Even after all the evals and testing I'm still not sure what to make of my son and what he really needs. Well, I know he really needs homeschooling but that isn't an option at the moment. I think we need to exhaust the possibilities at the school first.

st pauli - That is def. an idea. Not sure how they handle that in a GT school but will put it on my list of things to explore.

emerald - thanks so much for the info! I've had that first book on my list to check out so I think I will finally get to it now.

The Iowa Acceleration Scales are a wonderful objective tool to see if a grade skip is a good fit. I would ask the school if they have a copy of it, or maybe a local library has a copy.

I'm un/homeschooling my ds8 with a similar profile - born with/ visual processing issues, sensory issues, very scattered at times, etc. He's been in two gifted schools, but neither one could really accommodate him. My son is in vt again now. He was in ot for 5 years, including many years at a sensory gym. Been debating about bringing him back to ot privately, but at the moment I've been able to deal with the sensory issues.

The Biel's books are quite good. Fidget tools might help with the impulsivity. You could pick up a dryer ball (which would normally go in a dryer for clothes) and use it as an emergency one.

I don't know what your options are with schooling, but I would try to assess whether these behaviors are related to psychosomatic conditions and a poor educational fit or sensory issues or something else. Do you know if he's being challenged appropriately or not, for instance? I'm not entirely convinced that the behaviors are sensory related. How recent are the behaviors? Has he always exhibited the disengagement with school? If not, then there might be something else going on.

cdfox - I think you may be right in that not everything is related to sensory. I have a hard time discerning gifted & bored from sensory processing. He is not being challenged enough so I do know that is one problem but maybe not the whole story.

I would do a few things:

1. Assess for a grade skip. Is he an old 8 or young 8? I only ask because my DDs didnt turn 8 until Fall of 3rd and they skipped K….but were age placed for our current state (complicated story). The IOWA acceleration scale may be helpful.

2. You state the teacher has not routine made so many accommodations, is that for academic or SPD/VT or both?

3. I would address the SPD stuff (fidgets, touching, etc). I have a DD that has SPD and she gets 'fitgety' when her sensory needs are not being meet- regardless of if she knows the material or not. See if he has certain times of day, subjects, or activities that seem to be more difficult than others and then determine if it because he knows the material or for whatever reason (time, activity, presentation) it triggers VT/SPD.

4. Work with the school on math/science acceleration- see if that helps alleviate some of the concerns.

An IEP is not so complicated and often can provide extra support. Does your state have GIEPS? Often, sensory as a stand alone will not work as an IEP because it is not official in the DSMV manual of diagnosable disabilities but it may be able to be tagged on to visual processing and/or other areas.

You stated he had OT….could some of the behaviors also be avoidance? I know my DD did all sorts of things to avoid writing when she was younger…


Just some ideas. Good Luck! Sounds like you have a good school that is really trying to work things our for your DS to be successful!

When our local gifted school (only one in South Africa) wasn't working for our oldest we switched to home/un schooling (we turned down an offered grade skip from K to 1st). He also has sensory issues, auditory processing issues, high anxiety and major perfectionism.

It worked so well that 5 months later we pulled the younger child as well from pre school and I am SO glad now that we did - although he has none of the sensory issues, he does display some autistic signs (never tested) and is an introvert and a higher LOG than his older brother... Would have been a nightmare trying to fight for necessary accommodations!

KCMI - He just turned 8 in Jan. so I guess he is in the middle? I think the teacher meant for academics. She said that almost nothing they have done in math has challenged him yet.

I will ask the teacher about this since I don't observe him in school. I'm so unsure about how to address fidgeting, etc. in school. For example, I know he would like to sit on a bouncy ball at the computer but I can totally see him bouncing all over the room or crazy bouncing in place unable to help himself and causing trouble.

Avoidance behavior was not brought up in OT - she mainly focused on the physical issues like strength and coordination, not so much the other behaviors. He doesn't avoid anything other than something he perceives is going to be "too hard" (like some of the VT activities).

I don't know if they have gifted IEPs - I will look into that for sure.

Madoosa - I would love to homeschool but my husband and I both work full time and I don't see financially how we could do it. We moved to go to this school so we will work with them and hopefully find a path for DS that works. If not, I don't know what we will do.

We have this on-going problem as well. At its worst, I go to a place of comedy and humor; it works for me. It is like some on-going cosmic joke -- three generations for us in the United States over a time period from about the late 1920s (time of immigration) to present. I can't believe that it never changes. My patrenal grandmother used to say that there is nothing new under our sun. Hang in there and look forward to university / college level. Unfortunately, then we go through it all over again with the next generation. There is no problem fix yet. Our child is always bored, under-utilized and under-challeneged. Even the gifted support do not see it. Just hang in there and try to not think about how were paying for this and how far-ahead other countries are. The schools don't seem worried. Are they watching the news? Stay in a place of humor. Good Luck!

*paternal

Has vision improved this year with vt? I ask this (and maybe it's obvious or you already know);because the neuropsych who tested our ds said once eyes were improved and he needed less "brain power" to see, he would soar ahead in learning.

Yes, his vision has definitely improved but I'm not seeing much change in behavior yet, even at home. If he's not engaged in something he's really into (reading, computer time) he is kind of all over the place.

You would think a kid would bounce all over the place but if you make the expectations clear and just start with short sessions I think you could make it work....there is another thing you could try too...it is flat on the bottom and spherical on the top like a ball cut about a third of the way down....it is filled with gel and not air so it is squishy and not bouncy but it gives sensory feedback.

Search for OT supply sites and you will see all sorts of seating discs and such...the nice thing about a disc is you can use it all over the place a ball would be hard to transport to the library and cafeteria, etc.

Bronxalea - I think you're asking the right questions and doing a good job trying to assess what's what, which is easier said than done.

If the school isn't challenging or offering enough for your ds in terms of math, then that's likely a concern and a source for behavioral issues. Of course, that's only one subject too. You'd have to take a methodical look on behavioral and the points where school isn't challenging your son.

The other aspect is that IF you address/eliminate the sensory issues as much as possible and then the behaviors continue to occur, then you'll know it's not necessarily a sensory issue and more something behavioral.

Another suggestion - how much can you supplement at home or how much can your child bring supplemental material to school and do? Perhaps it's possible for your son to quietly have something to do when he's feeling restless? Is he allowed to get up and take a walk/go to the bathroom? Or is this not an option? I ask because my son was at two gifted schools where it was possible to get up and move around when he felt restless and fidgety and this really helped. Of course, it didn't address the lack of not being challenged but at least I could make a better assessment/decision based on knowing my son could get up and walk around when necessarily. I know there's only so much you can do - but I think the trick is knowing what's in his control, what's in the school's control, and what's in your control so you can get a grip on what's going on and find the holes with your son.

VT - it can take some time before you see improvements. When ds8 was in vt between 4-6 yrs old, I remember it took about 6-8 months before we saw the first wave of big developments and changes. In Dec, ds started to wear glasses again and we haven't noticed any dramatic differences yet either, but I know these things often take time.

Sweetie - I'll look into that - thanks!

cdfox - It does sound like we need a process of elimination, but I think we need to address the academics first then sensory if needed. The teacher is supposed to get back to me after conferring with others about what they might be able to do. We haven't had a meeting yet - just spoken on the phone.

As far as I know, they are allowed to move around the room or sit in the quiet corner if needed. But he's also doing things like reading during morning announcements and when redirected, usually complies but gets frustrated I think because people are always "bossing him around." This is his thing lately - wanting to exert some independence by not following the rules. This morning, he got dressed in clothes that were too small (pants and shirt too short LOL - yes, I should have gotten them out of the drawer...) but I told him to change and he threw a fit about how we can't control what he wears. He changed and then said, "look at me! why are you making me wear this?" when I didn't even pick it out LOL

Edited to add that we do supply materials at home, educational apps, and computer time. He love learning things on YouTube and also loves making PowerPoint slides! I've bought all the elementary Life of Fred math books and he flew through them. I may need to buy the next level. He's been tinkering with algebra for a while. Not sure about taking things to school - I'm sure we will discuss that with the teacher.

Just wanted to provide an update...I got a call from the vice principal and we are scheduled to meet with her and other "team" members (such as his teacher, guidance counselor, and other specialists) to basically troubleshoot my son and come up with strategies to help support him. In his case, they are concerned with academic challenge and his social development.

I'm interested to hear what the issues are in more detail and what they might suggest. This is our first major meeting like this so I am nervous. I tend to feel very emotional (just feeling overwhelmed and teary although I haven't yet actually cried when talking to teachers) when feeling like I have to defend my son or I am at a loss on what to do. I need to try be very matter of fact.

I took some notes from this thread and will try to incorporate some of these suggestions/ideas into the conversation if possible.

Good luck! Please let us know how it goes.

Please keep us posted! Hope it goes well!

Try not to worry ahead of time - it may be a positive sign that the school has called a team meeting to address the issues of academic challenge as well as social development. Go in with an open mind, listen, and remember that you don't have to respond to everything (or anything) at that one meeting - keeping this in mind helped me a lot when advocating for my ds.

Being matter-of-fact is a good target, but sometimes tough to do. Can you take someone else with you who is less likely to react emotionally? It's always helped me to take my dh to IEP meetings because he is calm and rational through everything (sometimes he's also probably half asleep because he's so mellow).. but having that trusted calm person with me helps me regulate my own emotions a bit. I also plan and practice an "out" statement for me if I feel the emotions creep up to where it's going to be hard to speak without my voice cracking or me showing too much frustration - just something simple and matter-of-fact to put a halt to whatever is being discussed at the time and either move on to the next item on the agenda or postpone the meeting until a later date if necessary. Not sure if I've explained this well - and honestly, just having the statement/plan in mind has been all I've needed to help me stay non-emotional (outwardly) - I've never had to actually use my statement

Good luck with your meeting - let us know how it goes!

Best wishes,

polarbear

eta to change "ds" to "dh". I didn't take ds to IEP meetings when he was in elementary school... and he would not have been either mellow, non-emotional, or asleep. I am thinking my ds would have been completely freaked out and petrified by some of the things that were said in those meetings! Sorry about the typo

+1 to everything pb said.

As a quick checklist and refresher, here's a link to another post which summarizes meeting prep... http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ocating_and_a_big_meetin.html#Post182175

Thanks - that is a good list!

polarbear - I didn't see it before you changed it but yes, I would imagine my DS would not like going to that meeting LOL I am taking my DH but as usual, I expect to do most of the talking as I am the one who has spent the most time reading/researching/going to appointments. Plus, that is just my nature to be in control It's the bane of my existence sometimes!

I know a lot of people have recommended this book on various boards, but From Emotions to Advocacy really helped me with keeping my emotions in check during these meetings. I feel much more comfortable with my role as advocate having read that book. I found that I was able to get through it relatively quickly.

I do have that book on Kindle but haven't finished it yet. I tend to have about 10 things I want to read at the same time and never finish any of them.

I just wanted to report back on the meeting last week. Overall it went pretty well. It was pretty informal with the teacher, assistant principal and a school psychologist (who has never met DS). It felt a little rushed but otherwise, not many complaints.

Both my husband and I were impressed with how well the teacher was able to describe the issues with my son. The AP even knows him some as she said she talks to him all the time at lunch about the books he is reading. She went on about how she just loves DS and he talks like a little adult. She said he often reads by himself at lunch and doesn't socialize with the other kids. I frankly don't see that much as a problem but you know, most people think it is He just really loves to read. He is quite extroverted and gets along with other kids but he does have some issues with social skills and reading social cues, which was one of their primary concerns - also impulsive, impatient, has his own agenda, doesn't self-regulate very well, etc.

So for the rest of the year they are going to try a social skills meeting at lunch time with the guidance counselor. The teacher also has some checklists to help him regulate his work to make sure he is completing things. I requested one of those disks to sit on for the sensory stuff. I guess the math has been addressed at the class level. We didn't really get into talking much about the academic part - the teacher did say that he self differentiates quite often in class (making powerpoints, reading adult level books, etc.) and encourages him when appropriate.

So we'll see how it goes but overall I've been impressed with the school and the district and how much they seem to care about gifted ed. This is our first year in the public system and I have been bracing myself to duke it out if necessary but so far, I haven't had to. But, he's only in second grade so lots of adventures ahead, I'm sure.

Any good recommendations for learning social skills? We try to explain things to him as they come up but he would probably enjoy reading something.

Our LEP recommended Michelle Garcia Winner's books for social skills. We bought one for DS to read (You are a Social Detective), but DS did not seem to get much out of it, even when we had discussions about the content. It is in the form of a comic drawn similar to Simpsons. She does have several other books which have good (but not many) reviews on Amazon, though.

Bronalex - You did well in the meeting. I tend to hate those too and do all the talking while DH sits until the end and might say something.

Social/emotional skills. I can say that within the last couple of weeks, I've been trying to directly address them and ds8 has been turning a corner. Remember, I've got the ds8 who had severe SPD, visual processing deficits, and other 'fun' stuff.

I do believe some of the lag or delays with social/emotional are time, maturity, and brain maturation issues. Saying that, it doesn't hurt to prompt these kids. Also focus on the positive and give positive reinforcement. Try to dismiss or make it light if ds doesn't do something (usually annoying or forgetful like not flush the toilet). Once ds does something that's more 'big' boy, point it out and say something like - oh, I noticed you did X, that's 'big' boy stuff. How does that make you feel? Oh, I notice that you didn't have a meltdown like you normally do over Y, that's 'big' boy stuff. I know it must have been frustrating, annoying, or whatever - but you held it together.

I've been addressing the anxiety, inattention, sensory, etc. - by asking tons of questions to ds. I ask if X makes me glad, mad, sad - or it makes ds glad, mad, or sad. Do you like being glad, mad, sad or feeling bad about yourself? IF you don't like feeling bad about yourself, then what can you do? How can you be happy? What can you do? Sit there and wallow or do something?

Try using a scale. Is this a 1 incident and doesn't need a 5/10 response? Talk about how a 4 incident may make someone feel angry, frustrated, etc. but there are options to avert a 10 response! Try to point out when ds is overreacting. Ask if it's increasing his anxiety or decreasing it/helping the situation or making it worse. You can use thumbs here to gesture up/down.

With social interactions. I've been pointing out that if ds acts like a 'little' boy then a friend who is 10 yrs old and more of 'big' boy may not want to play or be friends with him. With other kids who are acting immature and ds8 has a wobble, I ask him what he didn't like, how it made him feel, and how the other child may be acting like a 'little' kid.

So in other words, I try to help ds understand that he's in control of his behavior and how he reacts to situations. I've been using the Anxiety & Phobia Workbook by Edmund Bourne.