Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Help - Distressing BASC-2

So, I have been researching a lot trying to figure out why a teacher would ‘exaggerate,’ or whatever it is she is doing with putting so many odd and disturbing ratings, on my son’s BASC2. She put so many severe behaviors as “always” occurring that do not seem to comport at all with reality in general (incidentally these are not necessarily adhd behaviors – they are more indicative of psychosis, autism and such). I haven’t actually sat down and asked the teacher specifically about each one yet. Although I do have my list of questions prepared (I am planning to approach like I would a deposition unemotionally nail down the “facts”). Anyway, I really would like to understand “why” behind her behavior. I have a hard time believing she is purposefully being malicious.

I think I have stumbled upon what may be going on: a negative halo effect. The halo effect is a cognitive bias in which one's judgments of a person’s character can be influenced by one's overall impression of him or her. For instance, if we like a person we think what attributes that person is having are favorable even if there is actually little knowledge about the individual. The halo effect has been found to be alive and well in the classroom and (surprise, surprise) in teachers’ evaluations of children. For example, in one study, regular and special education elementary school teachers watched videos of a normal child whom they were told was either emotionally disturbed, possessing a learning disorder, mentally retarded, or "normal". The teachers then completed referral forms based on the child's behavior. The results showed that teachers held negative expectancies toward emotionally disturbed children, maintaining these expectancies even when presented with normal behavior. In addition, the mentally retarded label showed a greater degree of negative bias than the emotionally disturbed or learning disabled. My DS has the label of “emotionally disturbed” due to his anxiety disorder. He is also not a very compliant child (although he in no way has ODD – I would be having severe problems with him if he did and I do not) – he asks hard questions, he has wanted to read higher level books and has/does disobey to get that, he has “defied” teachers several times by “working ahead” etc. I know also there is “ negative talk” in the teacher’s lounge adding to the negative halo effect – after all, why else would a teacher who had only 5 interactions total each less than 45 minutes, state, “DS knows if says he’s bored everyone jumps.” So, I think she sees inattention and there is a negative halo effect emanating from that. Additionally, I think she sees his desire/need to learn more as more oppositional and there is a negative halo effect emanating from that.

Anyway, just wanted to share that. I think for those us with 2e kids, a negative halo effect can be an issue.

Revising this to give an update!

So, we discussed this BASC at the meeting. I got some answers and, in my opinion, the teacher's responses and clarification basically invalidate her BASC-2 rating. The meeting was recorded so I can play the recording and/or submit the recording to the ADHD evaluators.

For the one that she answered "always" "Fails to complete tests" She said she read that as "tasks" so that was a mistake. (uh okay). For the "always" "disrupts other children's work," and "always" "disrupts other children's activities" those type questions she explained (and totally corroborated my stance that this is just *not* DS. In fact she said that pretty clearly and directly) that he doesn't purposely bother other children and burst into their work and activities and disrupt them, he doesn't try to get reactions out of people, seek to disrupt others, etc... It's just that his inattentiveness, his 'get lost in the steps' behaviors and his fidgeting is *cause for disruption* in the class. I simply clarified and did not get upset with her or argue but I really do not think that is what the question was trying to elicit at all. The question did not ask if DS's behaviors are a cause for disruption the questions asked 'does student disrupt other's work' and 'does student purposely bother other students.' I think more than one even says "purposefully." The observations also show what is going on in the classroom and they show a kid who is basically kind-of spaced out at times and missing multistep transitions and directions. Not a student being purposefully disruptive, "always" acting "out of control," calling out crazy stuff just for a laugh, bothering people and disobeying just for the heck of it, ect. And there are SEVERAL observations. They also show that he is not "always" inattentive or "never" listens/pays attention. It that about "a quarter of the time" particularly during the transitions he has trouble keeping up and staying on the task of transitioning and number of days/observations it was a little as 15%. So not "always" and not "never" - once on task, he usually stays on task.

And catch this, for the social ones where she put "always picked last" and "always excluded" Apparently this isn't actually happening she is just assuming it would happen. She actually uses sticks to make teams/partners or just assigns them. I mean, is that a valid thing to do on the BASC? Make an assumption like that? How can she put "always" "picked last for teams" when she assigns teams? She doesn't see him at out-door recess or lunch so she doesn't see him playing with the friends he tells me about and the ones that come over our house. I think all of that is colored by her negative impression of him. DS feels himself to have friends so I guess that is the important thing. But how valid is this BASC?

I also felt I heard negative halo effect. For example, in one observation that the school psych did she said she was observing DS playing a math game with his advanced math group. She said she heard him say "danger zone' a few times during the game and was wondering what he was talking about. She said two other students joined the game (you join the game once finished your work) and she heard them go off and ask the teacher (who was still helping other kids doing work what the "danger zone" was. Teacher said that she didn't know. Psych told us (made an assumption) "he had the word "danger zone" in his head, it was totally irrelevant and only in *his* head and he just couldn't get it out." She added something like "and that's okay but stuff like that looks weird to his peers and it is atypical for a second grader." Well, DS is indeed a quirky kid. But I promise you he is NOT that weird. I can assure this had something to do with the game and some one else was involved. I asked her if she had asked him about it and of course she didn't because why would we ask the actual kid what is going on his head? Let's all just make an assumption that he is "atypical" because it is so much fun. Well, I asked DS about the "Danger Zone" that night. He said it was something about which only the boys were knowledgeable. He explained that, during the first round of the game, he and some other boys decided "to try to make the entire board the 'danger zone' with the angry blue guys." He said for second round, he was suggesting it again as angry blue guys filled the screen but he came to realize that the others did not seem to want to do it the second time. He insisted it was something that some other boys playing the game had been involved in as well and that the students who were questioning the meaning of it "were probably girls" (and perhaps they were not involved the first time around?) Although he is definitely quirky, he's usually not quite that completely 'out there' that he would imagining all that or it was just some random thing stuck in his head that he couldn't stop saying. Why didn't she just ask him rather than make an assumption that it was a completely some sort of "atypical-type behavior."

It really is outrageous, isn't it? That sometimes society and/or schools expect conformity and anything outside the norm is considered potentially problematic or an issue.

Your ds is lucky to have you for a mother, someone who will and does celebrate who he is as a person and his wonderful quirkiness and his very able mind.

My go to line with this sort of stuff is:

"Not every quirk has to be seen as a problem. Sometimes a quirk is just a quirk - you don't need to pathologize it."

Once DD was labeled as "NLD-ish" some of the... Well lets just say 'less smart' or 'less sophisticated' members of the school team started to point out social issues that just didn't exist. For example DD was removing herself from kids who were being mean to others, ostracizing others, picking on others, etc (not necessarily directed at DD - just behavior she didn't want to be around). I felt she was making a wise, mature decision. She is a very social child. Her removing herself from these other kids should be sending a message and not a message about her. Instead of pathologizing her appropriate behavior maybe you need to address the bullying/pre-bullying behavior she is reacting to. Unfortunately some of that "bad" behavior was just thought of as "typical" behavior for the age, albeit unwanted and inappropriate. When I pointed it out this way the school folks had to agree that yes the bullying behaviors SHOULD be addressed and that they were inappropriate. And yes DD was making an appropriate decision to distance herself from it. But we didn't get there until after it was labeled as a "social/emotional" issue for her and I pushed back.

It bugs the heck out of me that any out of the box behavior HAS to be seen as wrong or bad. Yes sometimes these quirks need to be addressed because they indicate an underlying issue. But our out of the box kids need adults to see beyond the labels that they are given. Presumptions, assumptions and looking for problems where they don't exist make their already difficult roads even harder. They really don't need that.

Yes, to all of this.

My ds has had a hard time understanding why his peers would act in an aggressive or mean way. This aggression was seen as typical boy behavior and ds was seen as the uncomfortable and often inconvenient outlier.

His skipping a grade has mitigated some of his feeling isolated as has his increasing acceptance of others' behavior.

Thank you, Pemberley and KADmom. Yes, it's quite distressing actually. And it concerns me to have the input of these type of people/perspectives on such an important evaluation. I am not angry - I really don't think they have mal-intent but it does not change the fact that their prejudices/biases do have a mal-effect - serious consequences. I am submitting the observations made (at least most of them give an objective and clear picture) and I am going to discuss the teacher's basc being invalidated or treated with caution/skeptisism.

Basically, I think it comes down to this. My kid has some labels already and he can't physically write. He has dysgraphia probably DCD. His visual (and apparently auditory) sequencing is in the toilet so he is slow to transition and follow multistep directions. Despite that, he *is* gifted (he does have a pretty high VCI (140's) and very high reasoning - he is in the top 98%ile). And when taught properly he is performing/achieving he can be very ahead in his subjects. He'll even teach himself. So he's already complicated and an outlier in two distinct ways. He already triggers bias with his labels. However, the most problematic may be his creativity. The "creative shocks" make my kid weird. He has movies and stories come to him (particularly when he is bored but if he is engaged he "can hold them off for a bit") and he dictates them to me later. Unfortunately, when the creativity hits him it often seeps out physically - he moves, he paces, he talks to himself, he shakes his head. He will also tune out. If you ask him what he is imagining he can tell you the entire scene. He said he keeps these stories in his head until he can dictate them or type them out (which makes me wonder if they actually interfere with his working memory, etc) (unless he deems them not good enough.) People think it's weird - especially now that he's older. He has always had this. When he was younger than three, he had three imaginary friends he would talk to and play with. He make up elaborate stories of their adventures. This was eventually replaced at about 4 years old with creative shocks. He would act out the creativity with his action figures so again it didn't look as weird then - it was imaginative play. In preschool, he would want to sit and "write" stories all day long.

So, teachers think he's abnormal. Personally, I think he's just creative and quirky. His creative shocks don't really cause any problems (well, they are becoming a distraction to himself and he reports that they do distract him when he is suppose to be doing something else) . On the other hand, they are sort-of handy as when he is waiting for us to finish in restaurant or when we are waiting in line as he entertains himself with them. Just last night we were waiting for seat in restaurant - he didn't need anything to help him wait - he simply worked on one of his stories. They don't hurt anyone. If he is engaged they don't happen as much. And he can tell you exactly what he's doing and why - so it's not like he is seizing or like a tourettes thing. I assume he will eventually internalize this process completely. Even though he seems so weird but I struggle with pathologizing this behavior.

I think of the story of Gillian Lynne: http://blog.alexmaccaw.com/heres-to-the-misfits

I think of the talk that Elizabeth Gilbert gives on the creative process and how weird some of our most gifted writers creative process can look: http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html

I think of how Ruth Stone described her creative process (discussed in Gilbert's piece b/c she interviewed her). Stone said when she growing up she would feel and hear a poem coming at her and when she felt it coming she knew she had to "run like hell" to the house to get a paper and pencil. She said if she weren't fast enough at times and she about to miss it, she could sometimes "grab the poem by its tail and she would pull it backwards and then poem would come onto the page perfectly backwards from the last word to the first.

BUT DS looks weird when he is getting creative shocks. No other kid that we know does this. So, maybe this is a pathology? It's certainly not quite normal.

And so, yes, "Not every quirk has to be seen as a problem. Sometimes a quirk is just a quirk - you don't need to pathologize it." And in fact, maybe it is indeed a special gift. But I keep hearing it's not - it's pathology and needs treatment. I don't know what to do and what to think.

I truly hope DS has a fulfilling creative career someday... I so want to see on some talk show someday talking about how weird he looked as a kid and how his parents didn't care - they always believed in him. At least then I will finally know I did the right thing.

As a writer I can tell you there is definitely a physical aspect to the creative process and also its various blocks. This is amazing that he is so aware of his own process at such a young age. Crossing fingers that this will get nourished as he goes through the minefield of education and people who don't understand. Again, he's very fortunate to have such on-the-ball parents for advocates. I hope he's blessed with nurturing teachers as well.

And that Elizabeth Gilbert TED talk is a personal favorite.

Irena your last post made me think of 2 things. Maybe at least one will help.

When DD was little she had the most amazing preschool teacher. She was in a lab program at the local high school. No predetermined tasks, no "samples" to copy. Everything was purely child driven. Her last year in the program she would go in every day and "write", direct and star in a play. Every day. She would dictate the story, cast it with her classmates and they performed it before dismissal. She used all of her strengths and was the happiest she had ever been in her life. When she started real school this avenue of expression was closed off. She couldn't write thoughts down and there was no room for free expression. Now that she is in a really good out of district placement she is back to having the freedom to explore what she wants through 1:1 enrichment. She also is radically accelerated for her reading comprehension strengths (5 grade levels ahead). I can't tell you how much calmer, more confident and happy she is. She is now involved with a musical theater company and in rehearsal for her 5th real musical production. She will still occasionally come up with a play idea but only occasionally. It is also much less frequent that she bursts into song or starts to dance either to a tune in her head or one she she hears. That tells me that these were in some way coping mechanisms and she no longer needs them since she has a good school placement.

The other thought I had for you was about my DH. He is an artist and art professor. Over the years I know when he has struck upon what is going to be a new, very successful series of work because he enters "the zone". He disappears into his studio and barely emerges for days at a time. He prefers a windowless room because he has no concept of day or night when this happens. I periodically go in with food (always simple hand held items like sandwiches or bagels because I don't think he would even be able to handle a knife and fork when he gets like this.) He eats them totally mindlessly never taking his eyes off the piece he is working on. This goes for days at a time. No sleep. No breaks. No rational conversation. Does it seem strange to an outsider? You betcha. Is it something to be concerned about? Nope.

I think your DS will have to learn to contain his impulses and learn to compartmentalize his creativity but that will come with maturity. Yes it will seem weird to others but I think you already understand and accept that. I would say that unless/until a qualified professional tells you this is a symptom of a serious mental health issue you need to stick with your gut. And no, I personally do not consider a mainstream 2nd grade teacher to be a qualified expert on this.

Thanks Pemberley, KADmom and Master of None. Your posts really helped me feel supported and while no one really knows the answer, at least here I feel like people really 'get' the mild "weirdness" (or shall we say ("atypicality") that often accompanies creativity and giftedness. Thank you.

Your ds sounds awesome. xo