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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
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I teach at a highly ranked(top 25) national university. Our admissions office is looking for strong academics AND extra activities that demonstrate deep involvement in one or more areas of real interest. Trying to be "well-rounded" with superficial involvement in a gazillion clubs and activities is less impressive.
Also, keep in mind that most colleges want a mix of talents each year. If we don't admit any violinists, what happens to the orchestra? We have talent scholarships for musicians, debaters, entrepreneurs, dancers, actors, visual artists etc. Depending on the college, students may not need to be planning to major in music, for example, to benefit in admissions by being a musician.
Our school offers a minor in dance (no major) but has a hand full of talent scholarships for dance. Every year we have accomplished dancers (ballet and other forms) performing in the dance company. They enjoy continuing dance in college before heading to Medical School, graduate school, and various careers.
Many other students don't receive talent scholarships, but may have helped their admission with the talents and interests they demonstrated. So how does a genuine polymath who is-- well, a real kid-- demonstrate that they are polymaths with wide (but genuine) interests, and not just a dilettante looking to rack up a bonus score? This has been something we've actually WORRIED a bit about with a student like my DD. Yes, she plays piano (she's not entering, much less WINNING national competitions), is an academically solid student (but not a "perfect" one), volunteers (but she hasn't actually launched her own NPO or run for city council at ten), etc. She does all of those things not because of what she thinks her resume needs (though that IS the reason we've given her for continuing piano lessons this final year of HS rather than switching instruments)-- she does them because she wants to do them. We chose to emphasize the things that she has devoted the MOST hours to, and the things that she has wound up being most passionate about. But it is hard to say what the right thing is there. Your statement is precisely what sort of concerns me about DD on paper. How do admissions committees tease apart which is which there?
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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So how does a genuine polymath who is-- well, a real kid-- demonstrate that they are polymaths with wide (but genuine) interests, and not just a dilettante looking to rack up a bonus score?
...
How do admissions committees tease apart which is which there? I'd think it works just like resume's. There aren't special formula when it gets to the readers. I'd guess they are following gut instinct and figuring out why some stands out. Ideally it tells a story about who the person is... a bit of art on both sides. If you think of your daughter's story, opening with a scene of a 14 old college application you're already fairly deep into an interesting story. If I were looking at her application, I'd assume she learns quickly with a good chance she plays an instrument well. The next chapter is where is her passion, what is her character like, and where is she going. A consistent long term activity with a single non-profit, a summer internship in a science field (with great refs), and her current level of proficiency in marksmanship (title IX opps and interesting.) That's a pretty good story, why overwrite it?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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the prestige and ever-increasing wealth of Harvard et al. suggest that these institutions know what they are doing. There's a causality problem here, because going to Harvard or Yale often leads one to riches and/or fame... but those qualities are often necessary to attend in the first place. If you assume that people are self-interested and will try to game any system created, you will not despair and burrow under a scrap heap. Yes, the supremacy of sociopathic greed in our society comforts me like a cup of warm milk. Amy Chua has written a new book with her husband. It's about success and touches indirectly on college admissions, topics in this thread. The NY Times has an interesting perspective on it: “Jed and I are wild fans of breaking away, kicking away the ladder,” Chua told me that first rainy day in their house. Their own excursions outside the academy might be seen in this light. But as “breaking away” goes, theirs is a fairly safe bet. They were law professors before. They will be law professors after.
Chua has been attuned to the plight of the outsider in each of her books, aware of how smug and insular success can seem. But there’s a kind of ingenuousness that can settle in after years spent in a safe space, one that stands at a considerable remove from the marketplace where most people make do. “The Triple Package” conveys a message familiar from self-help books: Adopt these values and you too can take control of your life. But you have only to step outside of Yale’s campus to see that the world doesn’t operate according to the same principles of effort and reward. For most Americans, especially now, striving and insecurity are likely to be rewarded with more striving and insecurity; you can do everything right and still have little to show for it. Kicking away that ladder will sound like a fantasy when you’re clinging to it for dear life.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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I'll have to read that article. I can't imagine what ladder Chua is talking about kicking away. To me, she seems like she is clinging white-knuckled to the ladder. Sternberg then goes on to discuss his fund-raising efforts, which involved meeting “some of the most successful alumni of Tufts, as measured not only by their financial resources (and, hence, giving capacity) but also by the contributions they have made to society.” While Sternberg's caveats are doubtless made in good faith, the parameters he sets up implicitly reward “leadership” as conceived, quite straightforwardly, as managerial: artists and doctoral students in the humanities, no matter how “successful” in their fields, do not tend to congregate at fund-raising appeals. I keep thinking about this. I know I've ranted about this here before. I abhor this narrow definition of success. It's everywhere. BTW, I don't say this because I am not wealthy (true) but consider myself successful (false--various reasons there, but I would say I am an underachiever who is slowly making good...part of this is due to taking time off for young children). HOWEVER, I DO have many very intelligent--gifted--friends who are not wealthy but who ARE, IMO, very successful, if by successful you mean "doing something fulfilling, important, and stimulating." You are not going to find them at a university fundraising event, though. They exist outside of that world, which often strikes me as a self-congratulatory echo chamber. I quit an odious but well-paid corporate job, years ago. I couldn't believe what they were paying me to do basically nothing important. I MAY eventually make something close to what I made at that job (in my early 20s) again, doing what I actually like to do, in a job that doesn't suck out my lifeblood.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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I had one of those jobs for a couple years. Highly paid, yet of no consequence. And it was making my brain ossify. I'm doing meaningful work now, but the pay is not so hot.
The things that our society puts a premium on amaze me.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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I had one of those jobs for a couple years. Highly paid, yet of no consequence. And it was making my brain ossify. I'm doing meaningful work now, but the pay is not so hot. I quit an odious but well-paid corporate job, years ago. I couldn't believe what they were paying me to do basically nothing important. I MAY eventually make something close to what I made at that job (in my early 20s) again, doing what I actually like to do, in a job that doesn't suck out my lifeblood. Did I end up on the NY Times comment board by accident? I guess I am the odd person out. I have always aspired to be a capitalist & entrepreneur, even in college when I wasn't making any money. My heroes were Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. I find that creating new products and services that customers want to be highly fulfilling, and can be very financially rewarding. Two people I know ended up on the Forbes 400 (I was hired into their startup), and I suppose that many of my friends are in the "1%". But by and large, these people have the same lifestyle as they did before they made their money, although obviously they don't worry about day to day expenditures. You would never know what someone is worth based upon how they dressed or what they drove. New England is different that way from other parts of the country.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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I didn't create new products and services. I was in marketing, basically. Enough said.
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Joined: Aug 2013
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If interviews are involved in admissions (or awarding of scholarships) it can help. Also, as ZenScanner suggests, I do think a polymath will look different on paper than the student with a long list of organization memberships that only demonstrate superficial involvement.
I will say that as a faculty member in an arts/humanities area, my favorite students have been the very intelligent ones with strong and often unique interests beyond my own field. Often this will be a student with a science major, but also a real love for art/literature, or sometimes it is a student engaged in 2 or 3 very distinct areas of the humanities. Can't say these are typical students, but I'm always happy when they turn up!
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Thanks for the insight.  That really is comforting to hear. I'd hoped that was the case based on the responses that DD has had, but we were nervous because she has so many different EC's.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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university fundraising event... which often strikes me as a self-congratulatory echo chamber. Some may say the generosity exhibited by many donors deserves our sincere appreciation, and that individuals who have endowed charities/universities/non-profits ought to feel a deep sense of satisfaction for "giving back" or "paying it forward". For many students, opportunities may be provided which would otherwise not exist. It is interesting to see the broad array of scholarships which have been created to offer assistance to students with varied interests and abilities. The personalized nature of many scholarships brings a sense of affirmation to those awarded with such a scholarship. Admissions may be careful to select students who might be awarded scholarships established by donors.
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