Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion What's your opinion based on your experience?

Well, our school meeting is Tuesday and we've got lots of good samples from DS to bring to the meeting. DW and I have talked, and we're optimistic that this will be a productive meeting. Our primary goal is to talk about getting DS testing (the school is not required to do this until officially entering K but they may choose to make an exception). The second goal is to discuss what we're going to do for next year.

At any rate, in a pure anecdotal, unscientific manner, I'm interesting in your thoughts. I suspect that DS might be in the HG range--but this is just my suspicion. He's currently 5y 4m.

DS didn't read at an exceptionally early age. He was probably sight reading at 4.5y or so but it's really hard to tell (could have been earlier; he's always loved books). He has always had a nearly photographic memory, and he learned counting at a young age. I want to say that he was counting up to 100 by 3, but my memory is hazy. He got negative numbers almost immediately. About the time that he turned 5, he taught himself Roman Numerials up to 17 because they where used in a chapter book that had 17 chapter :-) . He proudly announced to us that "some people count with numbers this way!" At that time, we started showing him a little more about numbers and within about a week he knew all his Roman Numerials and decided that he'd write all of the RN up to some ridiculously high number like 100 or 500.

Not long after that, one night at the dinner table I showed him how to do simple addition. I did about 6 or 8 math problems first starting with one column, then two column, and then three column (no carry-over/regrouping). I talked him through it and then wrote out a few problems for him to do. He got it immediately and from there things just exploded. Fast forward a couple of months and now he knows his times table, does math with carry over, subtraction with carry over, exponents, and roots and some basic algebra. When I showed him how Fibonacci numbers worked, the next day he got out his simple calculator as used it to get Fib. numbers in the thousands. Because MS Word has a lot of neat equation symbols I get asked about things like much greater than (>>), much less than (<<), approximately equal to, and so on... I used to worry that I'm teaching him things out of order, but really I'm letting his curiosity direct things. And by teaching, we're literally talking about 15 minutes at the dinner table or during bath time. Now that we have bath crayons, that's really his favorite time to ask me what the "googolth root of 8 is". :-)

His reading is fairly advanced too, but it evolved over a longer period of time. He can read Little Golden books without problem. At night we take turns reading Harry Potter (2nd book) and he reads very well, including using proper inflection. He'll get stuck on new large words but he does attempt to sound them out. Generally I'm surprised once a night on some large word that he does read (even if he's sight reading it).

He loves using the computer to look up things on Wikipedia. It makes "booklets" about things like all the planets including moons, etc. Generally I can show him how to do something once, and then he'll do it all on his own. For his last show-n-tell at school he created one of his booklets on the planets and brought in one for every student (we had to warn the teacher that this was coming!)

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. This has actually be therapeutic for me! Collecting my thoughts on exactly how we got here. But for those of you who have been there, what are your thoughts on DS?

Thanks.

JB

DS would enter K this fall if we decide not to change that.

Our goals are to get him in the queue to be tested so that we have a better idea of where he is. Where we live, technically the school does not have to start that process until day one of K. We'd rather not wait that long.

Our second goal is to find out what our options are, including the possibility of skipping. Because of his age and his nursery school class, at most he'll see one of his old friends. There is no GT program at K-school, but starting at 1st there is. So there are a couple of good reasons to consider skipping him now.

Otherwise what will likely happen is after K he'll skip 1st (my guess) and then leave behind all of the new friends he made in K. If he goes to K, then I want to make sure that he is learning academically. He won't learn any new math (maybe a little about money, but that doesn't come until the end of the year) so we'd like to know what options are available. When I ask DS what he wants to learn at school, he tells me "how to do hard math." His idea of hard math is long division... Reading wise he'd likely be differentiated into the highest reading group, so that might work if he's given the right books.

We're lucky in the regards the socially he's at least on track if not a little ahead. There was a point when he was 3 that he was in a little bit of a shell (his nursery school teacher once said "... doesn't say too much, but when he does, it's very thoughtful"). He socializes very well with our neighbor's child who just turned 8 and about to complete 1st grade.

Since this is the first meeting our goals are simple: get the test schedule and open a dialog about our options. This may include starting a GIEP but we're not sure if they do for K-school since K is not mandatory in our state. So I'm also trying to get a good pulse on our school and the issues we'll face.

JB

Dear JBdad

Many schools can be somwhat dificult, even with proof. Most want to do well, but have a hard time understanding or beliving. K-school is mostly social. I can give some examples of our DS5 K program. 1/2 day, number and letter recognition to start. By end of year most read a little and some addition. The hard part for us was to understand that no matter how much the school tried to accomadate, our DS5 would always not fit in (academicly). We had to augment at home. The school placed our DS5 with a 2nd grade teacher for 15min each day for math, and although this was very nice, it really did little as far as teaching him. he did enjoy it though and liked going to the 2nd grade class. In reading they could do very little, so we read at home. In writting he coresponded with his k teacher, and started a journal. Also did some spelling work from 1st grade.
Testing will help for itentification, but many schools really just don't understand what it means. Or they belive that school is for social development and that is just as important to them as academic. The good thing is that you are aware and that you can advocate for your son. There are also some great ways you can augment at home. We do math at home from Singapour and have considererd John Hopkins on line program. next year we are going to a private school, but will still work with our DS at home.
I hope the school works with you. It takes time, they have to see it themselves first. We went to our public school before the start of the year with test scotes in hand and copies of his work, met with the principal,even the district GATE supervisor. But it wasn't untill the k-teacher noticed things that any acomadation was made. As a mattar of fact the K-teacher was not informed at all about the information we presented to the school and the district prior to our DS5 comming to school. In thier defense many very well meaning parents of bright children ask for acomadations in K or 1st before the year starts. These kids are bright and quick learners but not the same as HG+. The schools and the district are used to many parents advocating early and some Hot Housed kids also. They have to see it themselves first before they can try to accomadate, if they can accomadate.

Edwin

Even if you don't get testing done, perhaps you can advocate for a skip. Sounds like he should go into 1st (at least)--I'm one of the advocates for skipping K.

I've heard the schools in Philly are usually not very flexible. There are some good charter schools around, and sometimes they have long waiting lists. You might want to research those as well, because it's easier to get in at the beginning rather than older grades--usually. Charter schools may have a more enriched curriculum and be more willing to work with you (or maybe not).

I went to JR Masterman (public gifted magnet school) in Center City, but they don't start till about 5th grade. I had to take a train & bus every day starting in 4t grade (Masterman used to start that early), but it was worth it--a great school, and I understand it's still the best.

That's one thing I considered: bringing a written request letter for evaluation to the meeting in case we need it (there is a sample on the PA state site). Thanks for the suggestion. From what I read that process does take a while.

JB

Yeah, we're in the western suburbs. I have shopped around for schools as it's something that we've considered (although financially it would be tight). Of course DS is so looking forward to riding the bus to school I think he'd be crushed if he went somewhere that we had to drive him to! :-)

JB

Edwin, yes, this is exactly what we're worried about. During his pre-screen they made a big deal of the fact that he was already a reader (back when I thought all of this was just "normal"). I'm afraid that he'll be bored to tears and even if we supplement it won't be an ideal match.

We do believe that there is something to learn socially because these are good life skills to have. But right now he's a very well adjusted little boy and we probably have typical behavioral issues for a 5 y.o. (with maybe the exception that he's already outwitted me once during a lecture!). But that being said, my inclination is to expect at least some grade acceleration at some point. If not now, then down the road.

Not having a lot of reference points--case in point being that I thought most or all children know how to read before K and that counting past 100 was typcial--I was curious with the group's opinion of DS based on what I listed. It's going to be a while before the test results come through and it's not really going to change significantly our approach. Not yet anyways.

I'm really hopeful that we'll have a positive meeting but I have read and researched enough to know that we might have to be very vocal advocates for DS.

JB

Yeah, I know and read that too and for a while it raised my anxiety level a bit. Following this group helps as I see that we're all in similar boats.

I did find out from another teacher who was also a parent of a gifted child that at our K school one other student in the past had some sort of supplemental teaching or pull out program. So at least that's a positive sign. (My current thought is simply why bother? Just let DS go to 1st.)

Good luck to you too Dottie.

JB

Good to know!

JB

I spoke to a mom recently whose DS is the only one in the history of our HUGE district ever to be accelerated. SHe said you must, must get assessment based on your school's end of the year test. She had her 5th grader take end of the year 6th grade assessment which he aced, so he was skipped to 7th for math w/ advanced students (7/8 combo).

And I think our school district falls into the "good" schools which think their curriculum is so demanding, it's good enough for all.

I think one reason to keep a kid in kindergarten versus first is your child's ability to sit still in a classroom. Although our DS4 knows the entire kindergarten curriculum, we're still going to wait until he's 5 and send him to kindergarten. Part of his learning involves running around when he learns something new, and he would think we were sending him to jail if we told him he had to sit still for several hours.

Also, there's a lot of fun stuff in kindergarten too, and for the academic portions, we're hoping he can be accommodated while still enjoying the fun stuff. (Of course he's not eligible for kindy based on age until 2009, and we're also teaching him stuff he wants to learn at home, so our plans might change by then, but those are our current thoughts.)

One thing I'd like others here to comment on ... writing. I've been told by a couple of friends w/ gifted kids that that is the one thing that either a) kept the kid from being skipped or b) the kid had trouble with after skipping.

For a) the school used the grade-level ability in writing as a reason not to skip K, for example.

And for b) the child was skipped into a grade where writing convention was assumed and writing stamina as well which would have been mastered in the skipped grade.

I recommended to my friend whose DS sounds HG+ and might try for skipping K if things go sour for him in K in the Fall (he missed the 12/1 cutoff by 5days) to work on his writing this summer.

I was shocked by how much writing was done in 1st grade at our school. DS's K teacher did NOTHING to prepare them for it. I would worriedly look at the other K writing samples in the hall but never saw anything similar from DS's K class.

My question I guess is has the issue of writing come up for you in accelerating your DC?

St. Pauli girl ... I understand what you're saying. Also at our school (K-1), K is when the fun performances are done by the kids, they have parties for holidays and the parents can attend etc. In 1st grade, for many of the teachers, parents aren't allowed in the classroom. They cut the cord. I found attending parties and such allowed conversation w/ the other parents, you got to see the work posted all around the room that kids were doing, you got insight into classroom management etc. A friend whose DS's teacher didn't allow parents in, was actually in the classroom only 2x in the entire year for PT conference. In fact, the school is in lockdown until November, meaning parents are not allowed at school and it is STRONGLY, HIGHLY discouraged to drive your kid to school - they want all kids to ride the bus. So K time is really the only time to get to know other parents that have kids your child's age.

That might actually be an issue for our DS. Writing is something that he does need to practice. When he writes his letters he writes it "his" way and it's difficult to get him to write it the proper way. (I think once a teacher tells him how to do it and not his parent, he'll be more receptive.)

JB

I just wanted to agree with St. Pauli. I wouldn't skip K without visiting both the Kindergarten and 1st grade class in question and taking into account both the child's personality and the teachers. I have a son who just finished 1st grade yestday (hooray!).

Kindergarten actually went fairly well for DS. Things moved quickly day to day, lots of hands on open ended stuff, flexible teacher. 1st has been quite horrible - inflexible, very dry, much sitting still required, and not even close to what we would have liked for this year. It would have served us well to skip 1st (although, for my DS, he is quite happy socially with his peer group, so skipping is a tough call). He'd need more than 1 skip to actually be learning.

JBDad - my DS picked up some bad habits in preK b/c the teacher's didn't correct handwriting and he taught himself. The one thing that worked was that the school gave us a sheet of the alphabet and which way the letters start etc the spring before K started. I showed that to DS and told him that his teacher gave this to us, to make sure he could do his letters the way a Ker is supposed to do them. That solved the problem. Perhaps you can get something similar from your school.

I wish you luck in the meeting - I have been a K teacher for the past 10+ years and I knew pretty soon on that K was going to be a joke for my son - he surpassed all K assessments that the county required and was also past most of the 1st grade ones as well - DS5 - he is 5 years 7 months and is due to start K in the Fall. He is a very tall boy and looks like he is 7 years old - he socializes best with children that are between 7-8 years old. We tried several months ago to meet with several people in our school board office because we knew that K was just not going to do anything for him...He has an IEP and even both of his Speech and OT teachers have all agreed that something needs to be done for him - the county office would not listen at all despite the fact we spoke and met with a variety of people. We wanted to get testing done - but the same issue - they don't test until K NO exceptions and even then they said they don't like to test in K and usually don't test until at least the end of 1st or 2nd....we then talked about either early entrance (going into K this year) or the possibility of a skip to a tk-1 classroom - we were informed that it was supposidly state law that children are not allowed to skip K and there were no exceptions.....so I then asked the question of what in the world were they going to do with a child who is reading and doing math on at least a 2nd grade level and he isn't even supposed to be in K for another few months...they told me that the teacher would do the best they could to try to meet my son's needs. Blah, blah, blah - yeah right - so we have opted out of public school for the time being. Lots of luck to you

To add to Dazed and Confused. In Kindergarten, every morning I could walk in the classroom and talk to the teacher. We weren't even allowed in the classroom in 1st grade. I was lucky I had the ability to volunteer weekly, but I certainly didn't get nearly the one on one time with the teacher I had in kindergarten.

Great idea! He is very motivated right now to please his teachers so that might work.

JB

Dottie, I know your meeting will go well next week.

JB dad,

Good luck with the meeting. I hope they jump on the ball right away and take care of this stuff for you.
If they don't, don't worry. Sometimes you just have to go through the process. It's good that you know what you might have to expect up front.

Dear JB

Based on your observations, and the speed at which your son picks things up, very much HG+, after that terms are very hard to use. Each child is different with different streangths. I have seen articals of children with a lower test score then our DS, but they read sooner, and are more advanced academicly. It was hard for us at first,to see the differance. One glaring example came up at a play date party at home. Because of the move in September to a school that is far away, we are helping him have local friends. When the boys from his class came over, our DS5 wanted to play Life, so I set it up went over the rules, and then had to help the three other boys play. This I understood, somewhat difficult game, money to count, reading, etc.... The part that really suprised me was when they played Battle Ships, DS5 I showed once last year how to play, he quickly understood and we played the game. One of the boys in his class, could not understand the grid, I had to show him about 8 times. What I assumed was easy to learn was hard for his friends. Of course I helped out and kept it fun, but it is hard to know what the norm is. MY DW has helped this year in K, and that has helped us to see where he is at. In his K class, most now read some, some read above level. In math some can add, and one can do some subtraction. No carry over math, no multiplication, division, fractions, telling time or money. In California the standards may be different then where you are from. Based agin on what you pointed out about your DS5, there is no doubt in my mind (Like I know that much about this) that he is maybe even PG. Terms become somwhat useless at some point even in the PG range there is so much diversity.

Edwin

Thanks, this helps.

Definite can relate as well. DS grasped charts and graphs the first time that he saw them in a book about the solar system and I thought "hm. that's interesting. I think that's pretty fairly advanced for a 5 yo"

Sent a PM as well.

JB

Hi JBDad. We had our DS7 skip K. It was a good decision for him based on these facts:
1) We had already had testing done and MrWiggly had clearly mastered K curriculum, IQ testing put him in the gifted range and out of level testing showed he had already mastered some first grade material.
2) MrWiggly had attended daycare/preschool with a "pre-K" program whose schedule and curriculum was basically exactly like what our school did in K. He had been in daycare from the age of 12 weeks, so certainly had already grasped the concepts of groups, schedules, stand in line, etc.
3) MrWiggly was already having behavioral problems in preschool out of boredom
4) His visual-motor skills were tested at the 99th%, he was self taught in writing but has great handwriting skills in terms of the motor part of the task.
5) We felt that MrWiggly would do much better starting off with a group of kids a year older, as opposed to having to leave a group he had befriended.
6) There were no identified problems with social skills or peer interaction
7) MrWiggly fit in well size wise with the first graders and is only 7 months younger than the youngest "regular" classmate (he's a March bday, with cutoff of 9/1 for the class).
8) Although MrWiggly wanted to play in the K room he also wanted to "learn hard math" and we knew he wouldn't get that in K.
9) The private test report we gave the school stated that he would need "significant differentiation of curriculum" if placed in a K program. I think this clinched it for the principal. He still doesn't seem to want to ask his staff to differentiate anything!

That said, your decision will need to be based on the personal knowledge you have of your son, your knowledge of the teachers he may have in any given placement, the support of the administration at your school and their willingness to meet his needs in any placement you decide on. There's a lot to be considered when looking at acceleration. The Iowa Acceleration Manual is very helpful to use in this matter. It provides a nice list of things to consider when accelerating a child.

Given your description of your son I can't really see how he would be happy and learning in a K program without "significant differentiation." Even in first grade, my son was in the highest reading group and was the best reader. He was never really challenged in reading or math - we ended up pulling him from first grade math, homeschooling the end of the year, then skipping another grade for placement in math the following year. We do not regret having him skip K at all.

If K is not mandatory in PA have you considered just homeschooling and not even enrolling him in K at all? Why not just keep him home and then advocate for differentiation in first. Perhaps that advocacy would be easier? Quite frankly I have to agree with comments that your son may fall in the PG range. In that case, it is unlikely that a typical public school will be able to meet his needs.

Do you have the resources to test privately? Our school would not touch our son until he was actually attending. I tried multiple times to get them to test. They finally agreed to look at our private testing, have the psychologist do some brief testing of her own and then meet BEFORE school started - only after we informed them that we were taking him to the Belin-Blank Center at U of Iowa for testing.

Good luck. It's a lot to consider and a hard decision. Just remember that you can only make the best decision for this moment with the information you have at the time. And whatever you decide now won't be written in stone or the last decision you have to make in terms of education for your son! Trust me on this one!

JBDad:

I want to recommend some books I just read this year that I wish I had read when DS was younger:

Losing Our Minds, by Deborah Ruf -- provides information on levels of giftedness and early childhood indicators, anecdotes regarding school and life of gifted kids, and advice on proper school placement. Learn what worked and what didn't for other G, MG, HG, PG kids and their families.

and Re-forming Gifted Education by Karen Rogers, which goes over the options available -- types of acceleration and enrichment, modes of learning, etc., to help you figure out what type of school, grade level, curriculum and approach will work for your child.

Honestly, from what you tell me right now, I think you'd be best off homeschooling. Of course, PA has a gifted education mandate, so you might do better than we have done from 4 y.o. to 9 y.o. in NY. In our experience so far, we haven't gotten any sort of differentiation, even after the school did IQ and achievement testing (for OT services). We may possibly get a grade skip in math next year, but it's all still up in the air.

It sounds like your DS loves learning and you are following his lead for learning. Great job!

JBDad,

From what you said, your son fits nicely on this board, where huge majority of the kids fits in the 99.8%+ range, with lots of the kids being DYS.

I have a math kid (who did learn long division in K in Montessori ). DS5 will be homeschooled next year though. I suggest reading book "Developing Math Talent, A Guide for Educating Gifted And Advanced Learners in Math"

Good luck at your meeting and you too, Dottie.

And gratified...then there is my MG kid who is so unhappy with school ... go figure... sometimes I think there is no figuring these kids out. Everything has to be done on an individual basis but unfortunately, school prefers to lump kids into categories.

I do think that when people make the comments that PG kids don't do well in PS, I think they are thinking of all the schools that don't allow acceleration, skips, differentiation etc. I think those schools are more common than the ones that many here have that allow differentiation, acceleration, compaction, and skips.

A friend of mine's kids go to a school where the curriculum is so diverse for ALL the kids, my son would be much happier there.

Thanks for the book recommendations and other comments. Home schooling is probably not an option for us unfortunately.

(DW and I are transplants from Rochester NY and went through that school system. Of course I'm sure it's a lot different now!)

JB

I actually just got that book about a week ago. I'm reading it at a leisurely pace. IIRC, this one is a bit more academic in nature so it's a slower read for me!

JB

I totally agree Dottie. At our school with 3 1st grade classes I know parents at all ends of the spectrum that are thrilled or had a really rough year depending on the teacher and the child. I haven't found anyone unhappy for the reasons we are. But unhappy nonetheless.

Is the Kindy program full day or half day? If the program is half day, you may be better off getting access to the 1st grade pullout, doing K and afterschooling.

Whatever you do, once 'real' school starts, Insist, insist, insist on a pit of 'Dad-Homework' every school day from the very begining. You pick the topics, and I reccomend 2/3 time on his strengths - stuff that will make him drool and 1/3 on stuff that you see as his weaker points.

BTW - I love Handwriting without tears for handwriting practice. If he makes his letters small and adult sized, you can skip to the 5th grade printing book, otherwise, start with the early books. They don't cost much, and I really like the straightforwardness.

Anyway - don't let DS assume that he only need do what the teacher requests - expect him to work for you too! Even if it's 10 minutes a night Monday - Friday, get him used to the idea that this is what the big boys do. Then you will always be able to provide him with teaching at his 'readiness level' no matter what the school does.

Half day programs are nice because then the child isn't too pooped to learn when they get home. Hope I don't sound too cynical. If it's a full day program, you may as well get the early skip to 1st.

Whatever you decide -
Good luck,
Grinity

Sorry for having made that generalization about PG kids and public schools. My kid is not PG and is generally unhappy at school, but that's just our school and my kid. My reading on GT and schools led me to that generalized statement. The overwhelming viewpoint I see on the forums and in text is that it takes a very special school to meet the needs of a PG child. Especially in the early years. Not that it can't be done, just that it is hard to find. I usually try to stay away from generalizations but goofed this time! Glad it opened up a discussion, though.

Debbie, No worries. I have read that same generalization many times about PG kids and public school. It took me a long time before I started to question it, myself. But I am growing somewhat suspicious of the data those statements are based on.

Ruff is one of the people who makes that claim. What is interesting, though, in her book is that the level 3,4,and 5 kids who she reports all got into the study because the families sought her out for testing etc. If the only kids you study are the ones who went to the trouble of finding and paying for a psychologist who specializes in gifted kids, then you don't necessarily have an full sample of HG+ kids to start with. There is reason to suspect that the kids who were having trouble are more likely to seek help. The ones whose schools were meeting the child's needs would be much less likely to pay out of their pockets to get outside help.

I think you can make the same argument about this board. The people who are needing the most support are probably going to use the board more on average than those whose kids are thriving in their school placement. I have no idea what the "real" numbers are for the number of PG kids doing well in PS, because no one to my knowledge has done the right study to look at that.

I would say that parents of a PG child in a PS school should always be monitoring to make sure things are OK. But I would say that about a PG kid in any schooling situation. Actually, I would say it about any kid in any schooling situation. As parents, that is part of our job, really.

He is really advanced mathematically.

Not that I am an expert in teaching, but I do know math - find a good HS math curriculum and begin at the beginning and go as fast as he wants to. I was doing algebra on my own in 3rd Grade but did not see it until 8th grade in the school system. You can slow him down by taking side-trips into numerical methods at each step - first using pencil, then calculator, then computer programs. Once he gets into calculus, then you can start side-trips into classical physics and then QM. Statistics will lead to side trips into Chemistry. The big thing is making sure he builds a notebook of things to remember from each step AND does ALL the problems in the book - including the very hard ones - he should be intrduced to the idea of doing things in his head at night or while walking.

His reading will pick up as he begins to mature in math because he will have to read in order to understand more serious concepts. The older math textbooks from the early 1900s are sometimes more accessible to kids who read because that is how math was taught back then - and there is a lot less of the ridiculous "Mary has four Oranges and Two Apples. How much fruit does she have?" filler.

At some point he will move beyond your abilities and at that point he should find a mentor. A lot of school systems tap mentors from local universities or industry. There are also HS mentors. Another approach is to just take him to a local U and talk to the head of the Math Department about him taking college classes. But make sure he can do all the problems in the Calculus book before you do.

I would not waste any more time on the school system. You would not take an F22 to a Ford Dealership.

No offense, but I think you should make sure that he will NOT do ALL problems if he understands the concept. There is no reason to do every single problem in the book. Yes, make sure that he does the most difficult ones and he understands the concept, but feel free to skip simple exercises if the child already mastered the subject. An average student needs many more repetitions than a gifted one. You don't want to end up with a child who resents math and is bored because he had to do every single problem.

This is definitely the path we will follow with DS5. Singapore Challenging Word Problems are nice, but only the challenging ones. The same goes for Zaccaro.

Sorry for being imprecise. Yes, I really meant all the hard problems. Thanks. One approach to make thing fun is to start with the hardest problems and work backwards until it becomes trivial then move on.

Right now I'm trying to figure out what the best fit is for DS. Even since the original posting he's seems to jump ahead on a few subjects and I'm at the point where I have to look things up to give him (his) age appropriate math materials... I'm considering augmenting his schoolwork with Singapore math. Someone (Dottie or Grinity I think) suggested a mandated 15 min/day "home" homework which I thought was an excellent idea.

JB

JBDad, we did the Singapore during school for DS5 about 15min a day M to F. We did not aleways do it, and many a time he did 30+. We added an incentive that if he finisshed a work book I would purchase him a large lego. It mostly worked well. 9Not sure about using incemtives) During the summer we are working at a slower pace. I somtimes wish I would have stuck with more structure, but I wanted to keep it fun. DS also seemed to prefer it if I was sitting with him. Somtimes he becomes very motavated and wants to do a lot of work, other times even 5 mnutes is to much.

We get those spurts of energy too. Some days DS5 wants to go on and on and on... and then for a week or so he won't be too interested.

I was going to have him take the 1B test because originally I was thinking that it could go either way on starting 1B or 2A. Unfortunately he's not very not interested in actually doing the test for us, so we need to think about our strategy a little more. He doesn't have a problem doing a worksheet or taking a test for other teachers or whatnot.

It might help if we get it a little more structured than our informal "here is what I remember about insert-subject-here" lessons we've been having. I took a look at the sample pages that they had online, and I think that's he'd be perfectly comfortable starting with 2A. If I don't do that, I definitely need to get some sort of textbook because he wants to do geometry and I'm afraid I'm at the limits of what I remember!

JB

JBDad:

We went through Singapore 1B-3A in about 4 months last year, and DS7 (then 6) was sick of arithmetic and needing more conceptual math so that he didn't grow to hate math. For the end of the school year, we switched gears and used _Painless Geometry_ by Lynette Long. I've sung it's praises here before. It was a great move for DS!

It's not much into the proofs, but other than that it's "real" geometry (as opposed to the "this is a triangle" stuff that kids usually get before high school). I've found it to be simple, but not simplistic, and it's conceptual rather than "drill and kill." She adds what she calls "geometry experiments" that are hands-on and good for a young GT child. If there is a workbook, we're not using it, but there are brain-bender questions in the book that I've used to check his understanding. It's been a great success for us!

I'm not sure I'd use it as a sole textbook if you want your child to test out of high school geometry or something like that, but for an HG+ 7yo who is tired of arithmetic but not quite ready for algebra, it has been a great fit.

FWIW...

Oh thanks for the suggestion! First day of camp, DS is "teaching" camp-mates polygons.

I'll definitely look up Painless Geometry. That's this month's infatuation. If nothing else, it will re-educate me so I that I don't teach him something incorrectly.

JB

I only hope it's not too easy for your DS! :p

Kriston, got the book today (perfect timing as I'll be off all holiday weekend). Just curious on how you approach the subject at your home. There are definitely plenty of teaching points and a lot of terms/topics that jogged my memory!. Our current style is very, very informal and usually just a few minutes at the dinner table or during bath. I'm curious on how you approach with your DS. (Or is this part of formal HSing for you?)

Very good recommendation. What I will probably do is read through the book this weekend and that will give me ideas on what to "feed the boy" when he asks more about geometry. But I'm curious on your approach.

JB

We did use the book for formal HSing. But our idea of "formal" may be different from yours, LOL! We're pretty casual! we usually spent 30+ minutes on it per day, depending upon how much in the mood we were. Some days when he was really clicking, we went closer to an hour. But that was only if he wanted to go that long.

When we worked on the book, DS7 and I just read through the material, did the experiments, and talked about the patterns he saw in, say, the measurements of the angles when a line bisected parallel lines. We did everything orally or together on paper. There were no worksheets or "homework." He read the "Brain Teaser" problems and answered them aloud, using scratch paper as needed to get the answers.

Actually, I think it would be a fabulous book to use at the dinner table precisely because it's not a very formal book, you know? Very conversational.

I'm not sure I gave you the answer you were looking for. If I can be of more help than I have been, please post again.

I hope it works for you.

We did some this morning at breakfast. Chapter 1 contains a few terms that I omitted originally. I think when we get to the next chapter and do more with angles he'll find it more engaging. He was interested in the new terms: ray, plane, etc.

Last weekend he took two of my 12" rulers and was playing with them making all sorts of angles. Then he got a brilliant idea. I turned around and saw that he had taped them together and wrote on one (it was an old wooden ruler) "0 degrees". I haven't had the heart to undo the tape yet.

JB

Okay, now I'm going over to Amazon to get that book. I've posted this resource before but here goes again, if anyone's interested:

http://www.didax.com/shop/productde...c/StartRow/1/ShowAll/No/ItemNo/2-142.cfm

I would purchase the book as well as a set of the cubes. I also purchased the activity cards and started with those. They are easier and very fun. They prepared DD8 to work in the 6-12 book. This is a very fun manipulative for engineer type math mind kids. The great thing about the cubes is that you can reinforce many math concepts besides just spacial/3-D problem solving. I am also planning to incorporate it with the fractions books I got at the pru-frock sale. You can definately make multiplication more fun so it's not so drill like.

Neato

Additionally, if you go to their clearance items they also have some really neat stuff.

They have sets of art and integrated topic packs. I ordered one and think they are great for HS art projects. They are originally $30 marked down to $9, I think. I purchased the movement pack on a whim on my way checking out. Now that I've had a chance to really look at it I think I'll go back for a few more.
The sets consist of 8x10 cardstock each with a picture of a painting. Some are recongnizable artists, some not. On the back is some info on the artist, about the picture and discussion topics. They also offer ideas on how the student may study the picture and use it to create a piece of their own artwork.

thanks 'neato - i was just coming back here to mention the art packs i found! (i'm a sucker for bargains.)

I found this too -
Catalogs.com Savings Certificate:
15% OFF all orders of $25 or more!
Enter the Promotional code - E5W1X8 - in the shopping cart at checkout on the Didax.com website.
(offer expires: 08/31/2008)

Aren't they cool? Which ones did you get?

I got light, landscapes, and portraits. I wish I could get them all!

I also really liked unifix sudoku for the littler ones. Though, DD8 took it from her sister and did all the cards first. She thought it was pretty fun.