Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy The "Pretty Little (Gifted) Liar"

Yes, that. Well, "sociopath" is more DS, and fortunately that gets better as he gets older, but the rest is completely DD. I can tell when she's hiding something to keep out of trouble, as she's terrible at that. But she tells these stories, and clearly believes them, and has to be thoroughly questioned in order to smoke it out. She told us all about how she got to ride the horse with one of the rodeo girls in the kiddie parade a while back, and since I wasn't at the parade, I believed it for quite a while. Something made me start asking more questions, and eventually I found out she was making it up. We have regular talks about the difference between truth and fiction, but she's so full of imagination, I'm not sure it gets through.

When our DD began experimenting with lying, around 3, we caught her at it several times, and then when she told us something later, we indicated how we couldn't be sure she was telling us the truth, because she'd lied before, and now we didn't know what to believe. That loss of trust stung her pretty badly. I also told an abbreviated version of The Boy Who Cried Wolf to her at least half a dozen times.

Now at 8, she still reacts in outrage if we doubt her word, so the lesson stuck pretty well.

However, our family does have a habit of pranking each other with ludicrous stories. The more ludicrous the story, and the longer you can string someone along in belief, the better. We do this to teach DD critical thinking skills, but DW and I had done this for years before we had DD.

DW still tells the story of how long DD strung her along with a tale of iron-fisted justice and hidden-camera surveillance conducted by DD's K teacher.

Yeah, this is exactly what we did with DD9. She still lies. Very, very well.

Us too! We told the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" story and everything. I think it has made them stop and think at times, but they still lie.

Yes, this.

Only mine is now 14, and STILL lies. Very, very well.

We've had the "loss of trust" talk-- many times, and starting when she was 18-24 months old and first tried out lying.

The bottom line is that there is frequently a better reward for skillful lying than for honesty-- and the older one gets, the more potent the reward versus the cost of being caught lying (after all, there IS a limit on the amount of punishment we can realistically dole out for the infraction, but her imagination and ingenuity are about the only limits on the reward side).

We've decided that we taught her good ethics and morals, and honestly, she DOES NOT lie about things that we (or others) mostly care about at this point. Would we prefer it if she were completely truthful? Of course.

But she's slippery like the very worst kind of caricature of a politician or lawyer. It's INSTINCTIVE for her.

Instead, we've tried to point out how wrong it is to manipulate others-- because ultimately, THAT is the bigger issue. Lying? Pshaw-- that's NOTHING compared to telling the truth in order to get someone else to feel guilty enough to do something you want to force them to do...

THAT is sociopathic. The problem with the boy who cried "Wolf!" isn't the lying-- it's the intention to manipulate others with that lie.

We still punish lying, but the fact is, anytime she gets away with it (which is most of the time, I suspect-- since unless I am the one ferreting it out, nobody else seems to nail her butt to the wall) the behavior is reinforced.

DD is good enough at it that she has gotten me to doubt myself at times when I went into the conversation 99.9% sure she was lying. Same thing happens with DH.

Do we risk backing our gifted kids into the corner of lying by over-pressuring them for the purpose behind their actions? Even smart kids can act without reason; if they are constantly challenged to create a reason, show their work, say the nice thing that runs counter to their own thoughts, pretend to play nicely with children they don't like and have nothing in common with, dumb down to fit in...

I worry about this and catch myself trying to encourage DS to say something positive when clearly something negative is on his mind. So far, factual lying has not been a big issue with him, but the more he's gained control of his strong emotions, the more they are available for him to try and manipulate.

There is also the game aspect of it. If you corner them on lies, detect their tells, unravel their untruths, and sometimes or often "win", are you successful in curtailing or are you putting them right at the place of challenge where maximum learning takes place, and thus are training them to improve their ability and look for opportunities to engage in the thrill of that competition?

I strongly suspect that this is at the heart of it for DD. This is something she is just plain GREAT at naturally, and (sadly) something that she has felt strongly motivated to work on improving.

Like UM, I went through a period with DD where she could make me doubt my own sanity in one of those conversations. I've moved past it now, and I just shut it down with "I know you're lying, you know you're lying, we're done talking about it."

+1 This is so insightful. Don't ask me how I know

Yeah-- I point blank refuse to tell my DD how I know when she's lying. Because she was using the feedback to get better at it.