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    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Originally Posted by ElizabethN
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Has anyone here had direct experience with a flipped model with their HG+ child(ren) in a standard brick-and-mortar setting?


    DD9 has a flipped math classroom (4th grade, doing 5th grade curriculum in a HG program). She spends fractionally longer watching videos at home than she used to spend on her math homework. She does not take notes on the videos (which she is supposed to do), but the teacher has been giving her a pass on that because her understanding is good. She has complained about the low level of many of the videos, but she still (mostly) watches them. One benefit that I see is that she doesn't have a chance to lose her math homework if she does it and turns it in during class.

    Great point!



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Even some students at residential universities are watching videos instead of live lectures, as materials created for online courses are used in regular classes, as described in this article:

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/10/31/harvard-classroom-virtual-learning/
    The Harvard Classroom, Digitized
    By AMNA H. HASHMI and CYNTHIA W. SHIH
    Harvard Crimson
    October 31, 2013

    Some students do not like the virtual classes, but the comment by "Mary Smith" at the site suggests that many live classes are
    being ruined by distracted students:

    Quote
    If it did not appear that the average undergraduate lecture audience has become mute over the past decade, and if anyone sitting in the back of the hall was not subject to all of the folks clicking away on their Macbook pro's open to Facebook during the entirety of every lecture, there might not be a need to push folks to prepare for class via the online realm. I've visited lectures where exasperated TF's exhort the mute learners "come on people" to answer at least one of the professor's queries to the room with something besides silence. If you do not like Ed Ex style, then perhaps it is time to insert a more Socratic environment across the board, and assign grades accordingly. Turn off your MacBook/Facebook, take notes with pen and paper, and try attending your lectures by "being here, now" so that you may engage with the Professors who are beginning to look like failures for your apparent disinterest in the classroom environment. It is clearly a waste if you fail to even subtly ingest the plethora of images slides and other multimedia strategies, which faculty are trying to plant by force and repetition into your utterly socially connected nervous systems. Failing that, there would be no reason whatsoever to roll back the Ed Ex roll out to you and the rest of your mute peers.

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    My brother is a physics professor and teaches a General Physics or Physics 101 course in a big lecture hall. He says that the back 1/3 of the room is tuned out, on their phones, talking to each other, with some kids even sitting in the back behind the chairs having a sort of Pow Wow while he's teaching. He had a different professor come in and sit in the back to see what would happen (everyone knew this was a professor), and it had no effect. They just didn't care.

    He said he gave half the class D's or F's because they didn't even do the work.

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    I honestly think a flipped classroom would work beautifully for my autodidact children to learn math concepts and other quantitative, applied work. I DO NOT think it should be used for nonquant subjects, and I see how it would be a disaster for students with different learning styles. Also, I feel bad for teachers. Many probably do not want to do this and many are likely not suited to it.

    I personally would probably like it if I could speed up the lecture speed. I don't like lectures, because people talk too slowly. I have trouble watching TED talks. I would rather read a transcription.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I DO NOT think it should be used for nonquant subjects, and I see how it would be a disaster for students with different learning styles.

    I run a partially flipped humanities classroom-- they read and do a limited amount of A/V viewing/listening work outside of class, and are held responsible for that material when we do discussion-based activities in class. This is not the only way I teach, even within this class I change it up a lot, but it's one tool, and it works really well for the particular population I teach.

    Nobody should be forced to flip a classroom who prefers teaching another way. Nobody should feel like if they "flip" some aspect of the course they have to do the whole thing that way. Nobody should be put in a position to change their teaching methods without (informal or formal) professional development to support that change.

    There is serious professional development involved in doing this well-- in designing a course well, not just in "flipping." IMO there are a lot of people who are assuming that the answer is the delivery strategy, when really the answer is having sufficiently trained teachers who CAN CHOOSE the right delivery strategy for their particular students and material, and who CAN ADAPT on the fly when something doesn't work for a particular student.

    The folks who are looking for the answers in tech are just getting it wrong, IMO. The answer is in the teaching. My two cents.


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    DeeDee, this is why I'm sort of puzzled by the buzz around this-- because MOST of my colleagues were doing a partially "flipped" thing as long ago as the early 90's, whatever we were calling it. I was taught that way in the 80's... so I'm unconvinced that this is new-- other than the technology, of course. But that makes me suspicious that there is probably monetization or profit-motive at the bottom of this, just like with MOOC's. I think that it is PROBABLY being done with the idea that if a single "expert" can deliver "high quality video content" then mere adjunct/TA corps can address in-class learning, and it will be cheaper. That's my cynicism talking.

    I agree with you. Bad teaching doesn't become "good" because a class is flipped, and good teachers have been using hybrid models quite deliberately for a very long time. I can't imagine how anything else can work, really. How do you teach students about the Crimean War if they haven't read or watched anything on the subject prior to class?



    I also strongly prefer transcripts to audio or video-- for the same reason. So does DD.

    I can process written input about 3X faster than audio. I know this because I've checked it with Coursera videos which DO have the option to run video at increased rates. I can watch video at about 1.5x (and I cannot take notes by hand that fast), but this is still only about a third of how rapidly I can read, and my retention is better via reading. On the other hand, my retention is still BETTER for what I write, and for me the easiest way to take notes is from a live instructor talking in real time.

    Big lecture hall settings are part of the problem-- and always have been, IMO. I really think that the key to better teaching is teaching TEACHERS better skills, and then shrinking class sizes so that they can do it.

    We used to refer to that huge lecture setting (for lower division Chem) as "the dog and pony show." You only really had 90%+ attention rates when there was imminent danger of death or permanent injury involved. Why do you THINK professors do all those wacky demonstrations?? My DH refers to this as the "Mr. Bill Effect." wink

    IMO, unless you are incredibly charismatic (like a rock star), I think that there is a limit to the class size that a human being can reasonably engage. For me, it's somewhere around 45-55 students at least at the post-secondary level. My DH has a more charismatic style-- he's able to work a group that is larger, perhaps 70-90 students at once.

    I've never seen anyone that could actively engage the majority of a 200+ seat lecture hall without fire, electricity and/or explosives. Yes, I've taught classes this large. The problem is that most of those types of classes are "requirements" that the majority of the students would prefer to NOT be taking. SO they'd rather be any number of other places in the first place, and they really don't care about (or perhaps even "like") the subject. It's not in their major, so you (as a teacher) are nothing to them, and they have little reason to be polite to you. Questions are just not enough for the back 1/3 of such a room. I've thought that footshock platforms in the back 1/2 of the classroom might do it, but that seems extreme. (I'm kidding-- but it WOULD add that element of risk.)

    Social media just provides a way to be disgustingly obvious about being unengaged. Previously, students doodled... or worked on something for another class... or wrote out grocery lists. Picked their nails. Chatted with one another. Slept. I once saw a classmate who made wire-wrapped jewelry in classes where she didn't feel like taking notes. Her explanation? "It keeps me awake. The professor ought to be glad." shocked This was a graduate course, by the way. Er-- why, no-- this student did NOT pass her preliminary qualifiers.


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    Quote
    I've never seen anyone that could actively engage the majority of a 200+ seat lecture hall without fire, electricity and/or explosives.

    Annnnnnd HK has just hit on why I want my kids to go to a small college.

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    ... and it's the reason why we want our DD in an "honors" college which is self-contained. smile

    It's where she belongs, since it's what gets her the Socratic style and the small classes.


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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    ... and it's the reason why we want our DD in an "honors" college which is self-contained. smile

    What is "honors" college?

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    Do honors college kids get all their classes in that format? I'm pretty ignorant about how it all works. Surely you'd want to take some classes outside of it?

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