Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Question about 504 plans

blackcat (Happy Halloween, btw ;))

this made me groan out loud... it hit close to home:


Polly, my friend's 2e DS gets a "scribe" with his IEP due to his slow processing speed. Not sure if you could access a scribe for dysgraphia using a 504, but thought I'd mention this.

We just submitted an old OT evaluation last week, along with a letter from our pediatrician requesting the school do further evaluation, and we had a multi-disciplinary meeting set up on Monday. Today we heard DD6.5 qualifies for a 504 even before her ADHD evaluation is complete with the MD.

FWIW, I have never been able to get the 504 to include a written statement that DD's workload will be reduced. I've been told multiple times that would be a curriculum modification that requires an IEP. That said, once DD got her 504 which just says that she gets extra time, her teachers often have been willing to modify DD's workload informally.

For example, this year DD's teacher has set time limits on different homework tasks for her. If she doesn't get something done, she may need to work over the weekend if it is something important or it might just be forgiven. The teacher asks me to keep her informed when DD is getting overwhelmed and has given me authority to cut DD off. BTW, did I mention that I think that this year's teacher is a goddess?

I am still waiting for DD to get a really good teacher. We are on #4 at this school and a couple have been better than others, but I haven't been overly impressed with any of them. Yesterday I let her play outside after school. By the time she came in, her medication had worn off and it was impossible to get her to do anything. Dh woke her up a half hour early in the morning so she could get her math done, but since the patch takes about 3 hours to kick in, she is no more focused in the morning than the evening. After much yelling, I finally told DD the answers and she wrote them down. The reason why I did this--her teacher will keep her in from recess as a punishment if she doesn't get stuff done. She turned in her busywork worksheets for "enriched spelling" a couple days late and the teacher threatened to bump her down to a lower spelling group if she didn't get those worksheets turned in the next morning (today). What the heck is that all about. The spelling group she is in should be based on whether she can pass the tests, not how quickly she copies words down on practice sheets. Plus, DD scored 100 percent on the pre-test yesterday so what did it even matter if she got those sheets done?! She is in third grade, it's not like this is high school.

Thank you for writing this thread, blackcat. I have the same questions now that my son has been diagnosed with ADHD.

Do you mind me asking what grade your DD is in? My son is in 1st grade and thus far school has not been a problem at all. I did just check his backpack and saw he didn't bring home his reading homework. It's an easy ziplock bag full of books to bring home--easy. He has now probably forgotten it about 8 times and it's October. SIGH. So while he might not be showing signs in class his impairments are starting to in a sense affect school.

Do I go for the 504 in 1st grade? What grade did you notice the typical characteristics of ADHD come out in your DD at school?

I'm getting a bit sad reading what all you've been through with last year's teacher, etc. We are are children's best and only advocates! I just don't understand why anyone would ever hinder helping a child perform to their utmost potential.

Sorry you are dealing with this too. She is in third but was grade accelerated in kindergarten so according to her age she should be in second right now.
When she was in kindergarten it became very clear that she wasn't going to learn anything there because she could already read well. The teacher gave her the end of the year math test and she already knew everything. The teacher didn't seem to have a clue about how to differentiate so we moved her up a grade in the end of November. I mentioned the focus issues several times but everyone kind of dismissed it (including the school psych--a different one than we have now--who evaluated her!). When she was moved to first I started going in for about an hour ever week to volunteer during reading/writing. DD was very spaced out compared to the other kids and it took her forever to write anything. Other kids would be filling up an entire page complete with nice drawing, and DD would have a sentence. This was shortly after she turned 6. She wasn't misbehaved, just very slow and out of it. So that's when we got the diagnosis and started her on meds (in the spring). She improved dramatically and caught up to the rest of the kids in terms of her ability to get stuff done, writing, etc.
I talked to the school psych last spring and she said that there is no need for a 504 since nothing is graded at that age, there aren't timed tests (other than the CogAT they use for gifted identification), etc. However, now that we are in third, the teacher seems to expect more and I'm feeling like DD is being punished for her disability.
My guess is you don't need a 504 in first grade unless you need classroom modifications in order for him to function (and the teacher is not willing to make them without a 504). For instance special seating, help organizing things, etc. I would talk to the teacher and see if you can come up with a plan before trying to pursue a 504.

Thank you, Blackcat. All helpful info and I'm hoping you get the necessary plan in order for your DD in school. I'm actually meeting with his teacher this week since we just got the results recently. I appreciate any and all advice, so thank you!

I can relate with the math note. My son has never been accelerated but is also leaps and bounds ahead in math. He still has yet to get to a concept he doesn't already know but he tends to hide this from anyone but me. He told me last year that school was so boring b/c he already knew everything they taught him. At first I thought he was being cheeky but then I realized he really did. However, as I mentioned on another thread, he can't seem to take tests to show his potential in intellectual ability for the life of him. Oh well!

One thing you should ask for is to get rid of timed tests. They are a nightmare for a kid with processing speed or working memory issues. DD does wonderful on computerized testing for reading/math achievement tests as long as she is given as much time as she needs. She tanked the CogAT (which they use for gifted screening)--she is so slow she left half of it blank. She took an untimed version of the CogAT when she was in K and grade accelerated and did much better (just goes to show what a stupid test it is, if a kids' score can drop 30 points in one year).

Tnx blackcat. Good info. I currently fall into the category of how can a test truly measure a person's intelligence? I know many tests do tell a good, accurate measure to be fair, but there seems to be a significant amount of people who just don't show their true colors on tests. Timed tests for DS--definitely a no go.

I don't know. What's weird is that people with ADHD supposedly have normal intelligence, yet things like working memory and processing speed are measured as part of IQ tests. If ADHD people tend to be impaired with those things, but they are part of intelligence, then by logic you have to say that ADHD people aren't as intelligent overall. So if my DD has processing speed issues does that or does that not mean her overall intelligence is impaired? If there are discrepanices why calculate a GAI in order to get a true idea of a person's ability? Why leave those scores in for some people but not others? Why not just leave them OFF for everyone?

My son's GAI is about 25 points higher than his FSIQ. He has dyslexia and ADHD. His GAI seems to be most useful in determining the level of the work he should be doing, how far he is from the mean in his ability to understand things, that sort of thing. The FSIQ seems to more accurately predict his actual achievement in school.

My other son's WISC IV profile is fairly similar to his brother's with one big exception--his WMI score is in the gifted range where his brother's is below 100. They both have trouble with processing speed. His excellent working memory makes schoolwork a breeze for him even though he struggles with speed issues.