Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Hello! (intro post)

LOL! Hooray for sullen boys! I just have to laugh, because when we're at school functions or birthday parties, the other parents must think he's miserable.

DS brought home his schoolwork this week, and on one page there was a (defensive?) sticky note, "He chose this. He had a choice". DS said he chose it because ALL the other kids were doing it and he didn't want to be the only different one. The objective was to cut out about six missing alphabet letters and glue them in the right place in the alphabet. *sigh*

At home this week, we read the first chapters of The Number Devil and he was fascinated at the concept that numbers are infinitely large AND infinitely small. He has spent the past few days with questions to challenge that. Very tiring answering those questions because I don't find math 'fun'. But The Number Devil is a GREAT book and I'm learning a lot. Hee!

I also realized this week that I really believe DS needs to skip first grade. I have been so conservative with the grade skip subject, and I understand now that many of my reservations have been due to peer pressure. I have decided not to discuss it with my peers, and to make no apologies to school administration. It is the way it is. I have grown a backbone!

The biggest factor for me was my mother. She has taught first grade for 19 years, and she said there is no way they can do anything for him in first. When he was going into kindergarten, she had the opinion that he shouldn't skip due to emotional issues. Now that she feels the time is right, I am more certain that a skip is vital this year.

I have also told my husband that public school is probably only going to work for a few more years. In a few months (okay, several months), we should have our savings back to a place where we can have our own house built in this same neighborhood. I will work out a way to be home, at least part of the time, for DS. And if we have to eventually homeschool all the way, I will find some way to make it happen.

It's so great to have a place where people understand! I actually had people accuse me of lying about my son's abilities. That hurt! I initially went into internet hibernation, then I got really angry, and now I don't give a darn who believes me or not. But I still don't talk about DS to my peers, which stinks.

Hugs,

Christi

Christi,
My guess is that we're your peers, dear - LOL! If you could talk to your aquaintences about DS, then they would be your peers, too.

I'm not saying that they aren't your intellectual peers, I'm saying that they aren't your peers in willingness to be open-minded, and actually care about someone else's child independent of their own insecurities about their own child. I have met many Moms of Special Needs Kids and Neurotypical Kids who are completely supportive of my struggle to find a way to get DS10's needs met. I am very blessed.

Congradulations about growing that backbone! LOL, who says that bone growth peaks in the teen years!

Also kudos to your Mom - It's so wonderful to have family members who understand and stand up for you. Many of us have family members who "just don't see what the big deal is." ((shrug))

Enjoy - Enjoy - Enjoy! You have so many blessings in your life!
Trinity

I'm brand spanking new to the boards. It seems like all of you are so knowledgeable and can probably help me. We have an 8 year old daughter. Like many of you both my husband and I felt and still do that she is very smart. I hesitate in using the word gifted because I don't know for sure. She is an only child so I can't compare her intelligence to that of another. Maybe you can help. I don't even know where to start. Maybe at the beginning. When she was born she was immediately whisked away to NICU. I did not get to see her (only briefly) for an entire 24 hours after giving birth. When I finally did she immediately turned towards me and smiled when she heard my voice. She did so for quite some time that it stirred quite a reaction from the staff. Our bond was instantaneous; I felt it and I know she did too. As a baby she was VERY good. From the first night we brought her home she slept the entire night. I actually made a call to the pediatrician to ask if I should wake her for feedings, I was told to do so until one day I wisened up and thought if she's hungry she'll let me know. Fast forward a few months: one day at about 7 or 8 months old I was walking around the house like a crazy woman trying to find my keys. And just like moms do I asked her rhetorically as to the whereabouts of my keys. She immediately crawled to the armoire and placed her hand on it. Just for the fun of it I opened the door and voila my car keys were in that most awkward place. Around that age, too she initiated a game with me. She was in her crib at the time with a few of her stuffed toys. She would toss a toy out of the crib and I'd run to pick it up, she'd do it again and so would I. Well I thought I'd let her toss her toys without a reaction from me to see what she'd do. Well one toy landed on the floor then another and another until they were all gone. At discovering she had nothing left to toss without hesitation she immediately pulled off her sock, tossed it, and then the other. I swear she spent no time figuring out what to do. It just came to her. Fast forward again: as a toddler she would put things together. Many upon many times I'd be reading instructions as she would figure it out on her own. She's still very mechanical. I depend on her a lot. She also had and still has a great memory. Before the age of two she was reciting Robert Browning. I didn't know she had memorized several verses of one of his poems until one day I showed her a rose and off she went reciting 'Women and roses'. She did the same thing with Bible books. I was saying them and got stuck when here she chimed in. Present day: she's a great kid. Very well liked and does well in school. She's in second grade and thus far has made A Honor Roll. She does have problems writing though. She can come up with vivid stories (she has a great imagination) but cannot seem to write her thoughts down on paper. This is hard for her and therefore gets so frustrated. She's great at math although lately I've noticed careless mistakes when the work is done at school. I can't figure that one out yet. Her teachers always comment on her excellent conduct and never fail to mention my DD downfall which is perfectionism. Due to this she takes a long time to complete her work. Her teacher suggested I take her to see a Developmental Pediatrician for this, has anyone else been suggested to do the same? I homeschooled last year and our challenge was similar; she would take an eternity to complete her work. She would daydream and start thinking about her passion....animals. She made all A's and would grasp EVERYTHING instantly. As far as her education was concerned she was learning a lot; so was I. I placed her in public school (we can't afford a private school)this year thinking she would grow up in other areas, social skills mainly. She is so sensitive when others are to even look at her unfavorably. It may be so minute to me but to her it's a major ordeal; I respect that though,I don't belittle her feelings. She has matured a lot this school year in this respect so I think placing her in school was good for this reason ONLY. Academically she has regressed BIG time. What I mean by this is that she doesn't have much interest for learning this year. She says it's all baby stuff (she covered the same info in homeschooling last year). Actually I had no idea public school was so behind. Anyway if it wasn't for the social interaction I know she wouldn't want to go. It's boring she says. This is a child whose love last year was studying about the American Revolution and who spent months completely downhearted at the injustice of slave trade. She wept with deep emotion when we studied about this. And guess what we are not African American. Injustice affects her tremendously. She loves watching the news but I don't have her watch it too frequently because she takes a lot of it to heart especially when it's related to the mistreatment of children or animals. I want her to be compassionate, sympathetic and empathetic, too but it affects her to the point of having nightmares. Sorry I got sidetracked. As I was saying last year she had passion for what we were learning and yet this year has had no reaction to education. I desperately want to know if she's gifted because if she is then maybe she can be challenged at school; take the classes the gifted children are provided. I think if her teacher suspected this about our DD she would have mentioned it to us and yet she hasn't. I'm also afraid that if our DD is tested and we find out she isn't gifted then how will this news affect her? I don't want her to think of herself as less than those who are. And yet if she is, what will this label mean to her? What do I do? Please help. I'm so confused and honestly don't know where to turn. Aside from my husband this is not a topic I've discussed with anyone until now....thanks for listening.

What a beautiful story you tell! I really believe that knowledge is power and that the first step is to have your daughter tested. Some school districts will do it upon parental request (althought they can take a long time to get it done); some districts routinely screen 2nd graders and then test only those who scored high in screening. My personal recommendation is to look into privately testing her. I know you said you can't afford private school, but it will provide quick, thorough results and testing at your daughter's best schedule. Depending on what diagnosticians charge in your area, it is worthwhile. If you cannot do that, be the pesky mom at the public school gifted admin office.

It is widely thought that parents are the best ones to refer their kids for giftedness. Don't worry about it, just get her assessed so that she can access services offered by the district.

My profoundly gifted 8 yr old son made careless mistakes on math (at one point I thought it was just being bored with the material). He also did not like to write (his handwriting was horrible and he would resist it, preferring to dictate to me). His homework would take him much longer than it was supposed to (I would estimate a 20-minute assignment would take him up to 2 hrs). A few months ago we went through a very difficult time assessing whether he was ADD. We started him on medication and almost instantly we noted several things: his handwriting noticeably improved immediately and he is willing to write long passages; his homework was finished quickly and independently; he was always an advanced reader, but would only read 20 pages at a time--suddenly he was able to read 130 pages. I know this sounds like I'm singing praises for medicating one's child, but it was very difficult for us. It might be something to keep in the back of your mind. The number one benefit for my son is that his entire interaction with his parents was either being corrected, rebuked (for bugging or hurting his brothers), or just yelled at...it was becoming entirely negative. It is not at all that way anymore.

Good luck with your daughter. Keep us posted

Dear Love My Baby,
Thanks for sharing your story with us. I want to hear everything about her that you can think of.

You bring up an interesting point -
"What is giftedness, anyway?"

I have never found any agreement on a definition, so I started asking a new qustion - "What are my son's needs, and How can I best get my son's needs met?"

In my situation, learning about gifteness really helped me understand what my son's needs might be, and what some ways of meeting them might be.

Here's what I think Giftedness is: A developmental path, which is different enought from Neurotypical Children, such that all the regular services a school sucessfully provides for other children of a similar age, and all the "common wisdom" about Child Development lead to frustration for all concerned.

((How about that! LOL!))

I see Gifteness as a Special Educational Need. But I also see that a compliant child who is getting all As but hates the academic component of school is suffering and not having her needs met, and if fact harm is being done to her - which you have to understand, most teacher will not percieve. Loving "being engaged with the challenge of learning" is not a counsious part of the goals for public education.

I don't think that a test can tell you that your child ISN'T gifted. It can, at best, confirm your suspicions. Similarly, if you child taught herself to read as a preschooler, a book like Dr.Ruf's Losing Our Minds, can help you better understand your child and confirm your suspicions. But my son, aged 10, scores as gifted overall, profoundly gifted in his verbal skills, and didn't learn to read until 1st grade.

I don't think you should even entertain sharing the results with your child of any IQ test, one way or the other. You could simply say: "I've noticed that school isn't a good fit for you, because you aren't learning to love being engaged with the challenge of learning. We want to get some help in figuring out what needs to change so that we can put you in a school that will met your needs."

Of course we in the US are raised in a "better than/worse than" world. But if you focus on "finding a way to make school and your daughter fit" then you can sidestep that whole issue. At our house, we always go back to the flowers blooming at their own rate. What would happen to the bees if all the flowers bloomed during two weeks in August? In the natural world, differences always make the whole stronger.

I don't know what a Developmental Peditrician is, but perhaps this is your teacher's subtle way of asking you for an IQ test?

Since you have homeschooled in the past, you are at a great advantage. You know lots of things about your daughter that you wouldn't know if you didn't have that backround. She also is likely to rely on you in a particular way that homeschool builds. Good for you!

What if IQ tests are too expensive? Some alternative ways of getting the information are "above level tests" given through the various talent searches. Another possibility is the NWEA's MAP test, which you would have to travel to a school that gives it. I have also heard that there are ways for homeschoolers to give the standardised tests at home. If you can track this down, then just give your daughter one, two or three years above her agegroups test. If she does really well a year of two above her age, then she's definitly gifted. If not, well you still don't know.


My last tip: Start encouraging her to learn correct typing. I started bribing my son, off and on, at age 7, and by age 9 he was 50 wpm with his eyes away from the keyboard. This written product problem is very very common amoung young people with alot to say. Let's face it: If you had had to handwrite your above post, do you think it would have been as long, detailed and spontanious? Or would you have written: "Please help me, I'm not sure what to do, I want to learn more about gifted."

And would I be answering you at this length? Probably not - sad to say.

Another wonderful idea is to call your state university and ask if there is someone for parents to talk to about giftedness, and you state gifted association may have a hotline.

BTW - What books have your read? Which ones are in your library system. Post here and we'll give reccomendations as to where to start. "A Nation Decieved" is free to request over the internet and has lots of good information.

Love and More Love,
TRinity

Thanks to all! You've given me a lot of information to ponder. As far as books, Trinity I have none. I only started my research on the gifted. If you can recommend one to aid me in deciphering whether she is or isn't I would be very appreciative.

Cym, I'm so happy your son is doing great now. I've questioned from time to time if perhaps my DD lives with the challenge of ADD. Her pediatrician doesn't think so but had me fill out a preliminary questionnaire for my own peace of mind. It did not seem to apply to my DD. Her conduct is extraordinary; she recently was awarded a medal at a school assembly for excellent character, she's very calm (always has been), and stays focused on things SHE enjoys.

My daughter's interests are varied. She adores music but doesn't care for the piano. I teach her that anyway only to challenge her mind. She's determined (has been since two or so) to learn the flute but I can't find anyone who teaches the flute to a child her age. She absolutely loves to sing and has a pretty voice (even as a very young child). The three of us take French classes and she does a lot better than my husband (I have some French background) although this isn't surprising since most children are capable of learning a new language at a much more rapid speed than an adult anyway. But her main interest are animals. She enjoys going to the Humane Society. Our problem is prying her away. She goes bonkers if we're driving and she spots a stray dog. She will go from this very calm and respectful little girl to a state of insanity at the fact we won't stop to rescue it. She becomes very concerned about it getting injured. She'll talk about it for days. I guess what I'm saying is that whatever her interest may be, becomes a passion and whatever she dislikes she abhors. There's rarely a middle. I don't know if any of this is at all related to being gifted or if perhaps she's just an interesting but ordinary kid.

Many of you speak of spotting giftedness early on because your child learned to read. My daughter did not start reading until she began kindergarten. She started doing Math at about one but had no interest in learning to read. To my dismay this is an area she still doesn't enjoy. She's a good reader and knows well that reading is part of our daily routine so she concedes but rarely on her own is prompted to pick up a book. This hurts because I've enjoyed reading and writing all of my life. I've come to terms with the fact though that she is her own little person and that her likes and dislikes do not have to reflect those of my own.

There are a few children I know who are labeled gifted and yet they don't seem to be much different than my daughter. As I sit here and write I'm discovering that all her friends she prefers to spend time with are gifted. They're all older, too. And yet neither one of them learned to read early on either (I thought of your son, Trinity). Recently a friend of hers said they were learning state capitals in her gifted class. My daughter knows the state capitals not because she's smart but because I chose to teach her. Can anyone explain to me what exactly a gifted class covers that a regular curriculum does not? I question too if perhaps most children are gifted in one area or another and the school system holds them all back to accommodate the few who aren't up to their speed YET? And if so, is this fair? Rather than testing for those who are gifted should we not be testing for those who are not?

As you can see I'm so confused. Our school district tests for giftedness twice a year and a parent can choose to nominate their child to be tested. After reading your posts we will take into consideration having her tested. I like your idea about obscuring the outcome from her.

I've given you some insight to my little girl. Gifted or not I'll continue to fill her little life with knowledge and experiences to stimulate her young fresh brain. As loving parents, don't we all have the same responsibility?

My thanks to all of you!!!!

Lovemybaby writes:
"She's determined (has been since two or so) to learn the flute but I can't find anyone who teaches the flute to a child her age"

Look into Suzuki method, very popular in the US. They start kids as young as 2/3 years old, have special curved flutes that grow with a child. Same goes for a violin. I gave my daughter violin (1/16)for her second birthday because she was trying to play with mine. She started proper lessons at the age of 3 and half but already knew how to handle and make sound on a violin. Those instruments are not very expensive but open up a world of new experiences ;-)
Ania

Lovemybaby writes:
"Many of you speak of spotting giftedness early on because your child learned to read. My daughter did not start reading until she began kindergarten. She started doing Math at about one but had no interest in learning to read. To my dismay this is an area she still doesn't enjoy. She's a good reader and knows well that reading is part of our daily routine so she concedes but rarely on her own is prompted to pick up a book. This hurts because I've enjoyed reading and writing all of my life. I've come to terms with the fact though that she is her own little person and that her likes and dislikes do not have to reflect those of my own"

My daughter was very similar in that aspect. We are a family of readers and writers. My older son is a voracious reader plus he reads EXTREMELY fast. My daughter, even though a very good and competent reader (was always at least three grades ahead on her reading skills)never seemed to enjoy it until.... we changed schools and her new school started to reward her for her reading. Last fall my daughter has read Watership Down for her book report on animal fiction (she is a fourth grader). She reads on her own all the time now.
So lovemybaby, have faith, things do change....
Ania

Hi lovemybaby!

The others have given you some great advice, and I'd like to chime in with my experiences on the Developmental Pediatrician. My son had to go every six months to a DP since he was born premature and therefore at risk for developmental delays.

I found that the DP's that DS saw were not_at_all experienced with gifted tendencies or asynchronous development. It seemed like they were experts on the needs of kids at the complete opposite end of the spectrum, and just weren't prepared to help with our needs. As a matter of fact, once they learned that DS was gifted, they seemed to think that all of his developmental issues had just melted away.

Even though DS still needed help with sensory integration, we stopped going. The final straw was the last appointment where I was warned that DS might have a non-verbal learning disability and Asperger's. This decision was made because his Verbal scores were extremely high on the WPPSI, while his Non-Verbal scores were unusually and significantly lower (yet in the moderately gifted range). This difference, the doctor reasoned, must be due to some problem. Since DS doesn't have symptoms that point to NVLD or Asperger's, I came to my own conclusion that the doctor was full of bull.

I found that a good Occupational Therapist was much more effective in helping us fine-tune DS's learning environment and in dealing with his SI issues.

So if you decide to go the Developmental Ped route, make sure to find one who is not only familiar with gifted issues, but also works with gifted children on a regular basis. Otherwise, they might be looking for explanations of problems when there really isn't a problem at all.

Good luck!

Christi

Hi Lovemybaby! Welcome!

You said:
As you can see I'm so confused. Our school district tests for giftedness twice a year and a parent can choose to nominate their child to be tested. After reading your posts we will take into consideration having her tested. I like your idea about obscuring the outcome from her.


This is good news. I hope the school testing gives you some good information. ((Remember - you are looking for a reading of her "floor" not her "ceiling." ok?))

I really like Deb Ruf's Losing our Minds, Gifted Children Left Behind, and would reccomend it as an "intro to gifted" book. If it's not too embarrassing, LOL, just head down to your Public Library and start pulling books off the shelves with Gifted in their title. If it is too embarrassing, go to a neighboring town! ((wink)) Tell us what you've been reading and what you think.

Your daughter certianly has the intensities that come with being Gifted. Is she or isn't she? Only a private test with a tester who is familiar with Gifted will really be able to tell. On the other hand, one definition of Gifted is ready to learn the things a child of an older age is typically ready to learn, so when you were homeschooling, what do you think her response to Calvert material from a year above her or two years above her would have been?

Remember that there isn't any prize in life from being the smartest or finishing elementary school first - the prize is for the children who learn to enjoy the struggle of learning.

Best Wishes,
Trinity