Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Ugh... what to do, if anything...

So. DD has two math classes this year. Both are dual-enrollment courses.

She is a senior in high school, she is 14, and she is (mostly) doing VERY well in her classes, even though she added Precalc 3 weeks late (she caught up in a bit over a week). DD, like many EG/PG kiddos, prefers drinking from the firehose. Why chase a tortoise if you're a cheetah, right?

So she tends to work in big BLOCKS of material-- she'll complete a unit of something in an afternoon. She may barely touch her other work, of course, which leaves it for another day, but it roughly all goes as planned (plus-or-minus about a week in any one class at any one time).

This is ALLOWED in her virtual school, by the way-- the only "hard" deadline is the end of the semester, or in some instances anything that is MORE than a month past the scheduled date of completion.

The problem:

a single teacher who is a bit... er... "overeager" let's just say, with the "temporary zero" on assessments/assignments. For example, my DD had four "overdue" AP Stats lessons this morning-- less than a week's worth of lessons, in other words, and she's worked AHEAD about that much in some other things. He ZEROED THEM OUT in her online gradebook, and now she has an F in the class because one of them was a unit exam.

Naturally, this is the math teacher. He also has some communication difficulties-- and doesn't really hold class anyway-- he directs students to YouTube and Khan for answers to questions.

My concern is threefold:

a) this is REALLY harmful to DD because of her perfectionism and the anxiety surrounding it. It is NOT NOT NOT motivating to her. It's punitive and results in out and out panic.

b) out-and-out panic shaves about 10% off of her usual and probably legitimate performance. In other words, if she's trying to scrabble through lessons in order to get rid of zeroes, she is earning 75-85% rather than the 95% that we KNOW that she is capable of. She's just feeling too RUSHED to do anything else at that point. I'd really like it if she didn't wind up with her first college transcript having grades that reflect PANIC induced by class procedures rather than her ability and mastery.

c) most seriously, she is in the part of the college chase that is best termed "Big Game Hunting." She has worked incredibly hard for a 14yo in order to be competitive in this race, and she's applying for a LOT of merit based scholarships and some pretty selective programs right now. Have I mentioned stress? Yes? Well, some of those programs want to see current progress reports. Guess it's just bad luck for her if it happens that Mr. Math, there, got a wild hair in the middle of the night and zeroed out a midterm, huh?




The question is WHAT to do about this. The teacher is known for this practice, but he's also the only one teaching either math class. Can she get ahead of things a week and STAY that way? Probably-- but maybe not without getting behind in AP English, which we'd prefer she not do. Also, I have concerns that if she does do that, she may sacrifice points that she will need at the end of the term in order to maintain A's. Neither class is "hard" exactly-- but the grading is mostly multiple choice and VERY much 'right/wrong' and she's lost probably 2-3% just on rounding errors and stuff that isn't technically really in the realm of "error" if a live person were grading the work. KWIM? Computational accuracy is DD's weakness in math, and the faster she must work, the worse it gets.

I doubt that the teacher will 'hear' my reasons for wanting him to NOT do this anymore. Should I even bother asking to stop?

If I don't, how do I buffer DD from the way that this is POKING at her perfectionism? I don't want her just taking a panic-driven approach, either, though-- and that is what she HAS been doing.

Her grades in both classes definitely show it, too-- she's about 1/3 complete with both, and has A- grades to show for it, so her accuracy MUST improve. It's not her understanding that is the problem. It's the computation on assessments that she is feeling highly pressured about.

Frankly, she's shutting down over it. THAT is my biggest worry.

2 things jump right out at me:-

If the only real deadline is the end of the Semester then he shouldn't be doing this.

The purpose of a virtual school is surely ALLOW a student to work at their own pace, in their own order as long as it all gets done, right?

Is this jackass actually having to mark these pieces of 'overdue' work or does a computer do it? If computer marked then he/shedoesn't have a leg to stand on and I would escalate this very quickly if he/she will not listen to reason.

Okay, the party line on the "temporary zero" thing is that it "let's students see what will happen" and keeps them motivated "to keep up with coursework."


Well, I can see how that could work for some students-- but I can also see how TOXIC the practice is for others-- particularly for cheetahs, let's just say.

As for working at your own pace and in whatever order seems fine-- well, not-so-much since Pearson took over, actually. My real beef with this zero policy is that it probably just isn't appropriate for the TOP 2-3% of students in the first place. They've never--ever-- done anything to suggest to ANYONE that they are unaware of the consequences of not doing the work, or that they might not get through it all on time. So yeah, I don't understand why it is necessary to do this in the first place. I also don't understand what purpose it serves for the teachers themselves, but there must be something, or they wouldn't bother.


Computer v. Human grading-- well, it's sort of BOTH. That is, mostly autograded, but often the teacher has to check through it and fix any stoooooopid stuff like the fact that the computer may not understand that

"two" or "2" are both acceptable answers to a question inquiring about an integer number of items, that questions 4 and 8 on that quiz have both been "invalidated" from on high and "any response" will lead to credit (my DD's answer to such questions is invariably "42," and she's chagrined that her teacher seems a bit humorless though I suspect it's the language barrier at work. He's a nice enough guy. ). In other words, I'm more than a touch concerned that it's impacting the tenor of how she is interacting with the material, which she otherwise LOVES.

He also grades ~50% of exams because those are extended response, at least in AP/honors.

But yeah-- it's a math class. Seriously, how much work can this possibly BE?

So, are the zero's just temporary? All replaced with appropriate grades when she does hand it in? Or is she penalized in some way (long-term) by this?

Sounds as though she may just have to stay caught up or ahead, then, if the temporary zeroes aren't something it's clear the teacher would be reprimanded for and if they're a problem for her. What's being done here doesn't sound unreasonable, honestly, though I can see it might not fit with her preferred style.

I think it may be a mistake to ask how you can buffer it for her. She's very close to being a fully independent college student; she needs to do it herself. And, concretely, there will be times in college when there are deadlines other than at semester end, and maybe more deadlines than she likes, won't there? If that stresses her out, time for her to learn some coping strategies, while she doesn't have the rest of the college experience stressing her out too.

If the zeroes are truly temporary, I would not worry too much. Colleges typically want to see first quarter and semester grades. I assume that she would be caught up by those points in time, and the grade listed would reflect that she had completed all of the assignments.

If they are not temporary, or if she will take a big hit on the grades if she hands in assignments late, did the teacher clearly state this policy? If not, perhaps she should talk to the teacher and offer something such as A) I will hand in all assignments on time from this point onward and B) I should have been "more responsible" and handed in the assignments on time, but since the policy wasn't stated, I feel that I should receive partial credit (perhaps 10-20% grade reduction) for the past assignments.

I can understand that a policy of no credit for late work is harsh. However, I can also understand that the teacher doesn't want to see a semester's worth of assignments the last week of the semester. Not only is it a lot of papers to grade, but a student that didn't understand the material could go an entire semester being clueless (and the teacher wouldn't realize).

Yeah-- but-- understand how an online format works. This work is NOT "late." THERE IS NO WARNING, and no due date that has been ignored.

There is no "policy" about late work-- nor do most teachers state one up front (including this one).

If there were such a policy, that's fine. But this is arbitrary and occurs randomly.

That's really the problem.

We also had a teacher two years ago that randomly assigned temporary zeros for TERM projects (even those not-yet-due)-- as a "reminder" to students that they needed to work on them. He did one of those literally just MINUTES before leaving for Christmas break-- gave my DD a zero for a project due in late January which was 30% of her course grade. Nice.

Unfortunately, that turns the course grade to an F/D/C and doesn't let conscientious students really see what their work is going to earn them in terms of the course grade.

Maybe I do just need to let it go, but honestly, from a post-secondary professional standpoint, my students would have been down to the dean's office in a heartbeat if I'd done something like this. I don't think that it's wrong to insist that this not be "at random," and that the policy be clear-- as it stands, this is the teacher's lazy (IMO) way of communicating to students without having to go to the trouble. The teachers don't see these kids or talk to them at all-- so unless parents TELL the school that there is something going on (or, in the earlier example, even when I did) it is basically like using a 2 X 4 to get their attention rather than saying "I have some concerns; can we talk?"

Is all the material for the whole course available now? If so, and if this is the only teacher that cares about when work is done, maybe a good strategy would be to spend the next however long it took - week? - doing this entire course, and then go back to the others?

Probably, colinsmum.

That's kind of the direction that I'm leaning at this point. The alternative is that when this happens, DD kind of runs around like a scared rabbit-- obviously not a way to have her performance measure her understanding (and boy, it doesn't).

I've asked that the counseling staff bring this up as a "poor communication strategy" without first contacting parents/students about concerns. If teachers are SO overworked that they cannot do that, then they need to take it up with administration-- NOT punish students for the workload.

If parents/students are unresponsive to those inquiries, or if a regular policy is announced, then fine. Otherwise this is kind of terrorizing the top performing kids for the way that they learn.