Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional if not dyslexia, what could it be?

PB, yes we are doing a private eval very soon. And yes he loves audio books.

Black cat, he is awful with nonsense words. Terrible. He makes almost no effort to sound them out. Just guesses.

DeHe, he will give any book a try as long as there are pictures. Any level book.

I will try to respond more tomorrow when I can access something other than my phone. Keep the responses coming! Thanks so much!

We got the results. The tester does NOT think that DS7 has any 2E issues. Although there WAS a big discrepancy between IQ and achievement scores, she attributes it to the following:

He is very reluctant to read or write things that are not 'interesting' to him. He WILL do it, but doesn't want to. She believes that his reading and writing education in his current classroom is extremely poor. So, he is acing everything they do in class and is not being stretched at all. Therefore, he is not learning anything in reading or writing at school. And since he strongly prefers non fiction to fiction, he spends very little time reading fiction at home. So, he is not developing his reading and writing skills at home either. He actually did pretty well with his decoding skills (I was shocked!). I also saw his writing samples from the achievement test and they looked good to me. So no dyslexia, no dysgraphia.

She thinks that the gap between IQ and achievement will be closed by giving him an appropriate education in reading and writing.

Any thoughts from anyone here?

Well a gap between IQ and achievement can certainly be a sign of 2E and you may find yourself coming back to revisit this, but certainly I have a child with DYS IQ who was NOT at DYS achievement levels previously due to lack of exposure/opportunity and if she's not at DYS level now in at least literacy then she's close. She has ADHD and a major handwriting challenge that is primarily physical, but she's made astounding progress on that too. Certainly in her case I feel like she's got some quirks and needs scaffolding in some areas, but it's nothing like dealing with her sister's issues (who is VERY 2E). For her she really was held back primarily by lack of exposure/quality teaching at the appropriate pace and level.

He sounds so much like my son with a stealth dyslexia diagnosis (except he is way high on achievement despite not being exposed). Did the tester have experience with 2E?

Yes, the tester has extensive 2e experience.

somewhere, did you receive a copy of the WISC subtest scores, and are they all within a consistent range, or do you see variations > 3 points among subtests or greater than 15 points between VCI/PRI/PSI/WM?

Can you also let us know how wide the discrepancy was between ability and achievement?

And - last question - I promise lol - when you look at the achievement tests is there a lot of scatter in the scores or are they consistently at the same level? If there is scatter, are the tests called "fluency" lower than the other test scores?

polarbear

somewhere, did you receive a copy of the WISC subtest scores, and are they all within a consistent range, or do you see variations > 3 points among subtests or greater than 15 points between VCI/PRI/PSI/WM?

I have a copy of the WISC subtest scores. IIRC, between VCI and PRI was a difference of 13 points (BUT - for PRI, DS hit the ceiling a few times on the subtests, so the difference was probably greater between PRI and VCI). There were also some great difference in the WM section. I remember the tester's reasoning, but can't recall the actual difference. (I will look at the paperwork and get back here.)

Can you also let us know how wide the discrepancy was between ability and achievement?

Between ability and achievement - ballpark figures were about a 15 point spread between verbal ability (higher) and achievement. But there was also about a 15 point spread between PRI and math achievement (higher).

And - last question - I promise lol - when you look at the achievement tests is there a lot of scatter in the scores or are they consistently at the same level? If there is scatter, are the tests called "fluency" lower than the other test scores?

I appreciate your questions, actually. Because if I am missing something, or if the tester is missing something - I WANT TO KNOW! Not too much scatter - the reading and writing was consistently lower than expected and the math was consistently higher than expected based on WISC (but as previously mentioned, DS hit ceilings on WISC and didn't do extended norms, so I don't know how high he would have gone on the WISC PRI). I am going to take a look and get back here.

Anything else I should be looking for?

This topic is hitting home for my third grade son and I need help in getting him the right tests to figure out what's going on.

He's bright (though his fifth grade brother is extremely gifted) and strong at math. This year his handwriting and spelling has regressed. The descriptions of dysgraphia and/or stealth dyslexia seem to fit what I have observed.

He was in speech therapy through first grade -- but 'graduated' at minimal aided levels when the school district had cut backs. His current teacher just had him observed by the school speech therapist but because he is bright, won't be considered for further speech testing.

In today's parent teacher conference the teacher and I started putting together a lot of the issues that have come up this year, including regression in handwriting to almost illegible, with basic spelling mistakes and very short answers. Even his math has hasty mistakes and illegible numbers. Rewriting assignments doesn't make it better. The other concern is missing assignments or not handing in his work, which I first thought was an issue of taking responsibility.

Then we started combining these issues with his toe walking (he still walks on his toes but not as pronounced), bites on his collar and doesn't realize he is, speech issues, and his wanting Mommy to read more at bedtime rather than him reading. While he does well at reading, he has always been reluctant to read and prefers books with lots of pictures. He is also not recording/taking the classroom tests for the books he is reading. When little he did have problems with backwards letters/numbers. Because he is bright I think he has been able to cover up any issues.

Something is going on and I would love any advice on how to handle this with the school district or getting our own testing done. Thank you in advance for any insight.

I think your gut is telling you something's wrong and you should pursue getting him an evaluation. Based on your and the teacher's observations, you can put in writing to the school that you suspect a learning issue with your son and you'd like him tested asap. The school is legally required to pursue testing regardless of how he is performing in class.

My son with dyslexia had similar issues to what you describe when he was that age (although he was diagnosed at 7, in 2nd grade). He sucked on his shirt, he couldn't say his "r"'s until the spring of 3rd grade year, his handwriting was chickenscratch (but it always had been), and he made letter reversals and he was good at math, but made errors mostly because of his poor handwriting. He never wanted to read, but loved being read to.

What is your son's reading level? If he's behind, I would pursue tutoring or intervention immediately, and not wait for the testing to be complete. It could be several months before the school has a plan in place and this is valuable learning time for your son.

FWIW, my son is doing great in school now-- advanced in all his subjects. But his handwriting and spelling are still terrible.

I agree with syoblrig, your gut is telling you something is up, and taken in combination with the things you've observed and mentioned in your post, I'd pursue an evaluation. You can request the eval through the school, or you can seek out a private eval - my personal advice is to get the private eval if you can.


The school is legally required to *consider* testing - they aren't legally required to test. As a parent you make a written request for an evaluation, and that requires the school to convene a team meeting to consider the request based on the parent's concern and input from teachers etc. It's possible that the team will agree and you'll receive the evaluation, but it might also be a very tough situation to successfully advocate through depending on the general attitude at your school on the part of the school staff or philosophy toward SPED evals, and you'll most likely need to provide work samples or data from observations and testing (state testing, classroom testing, or other types of testing) that illustrate your concerns. Our EG ds was in a school district which was stressed for funds and staffing to cover all the needs for testing and services when he was in elementary, and we would not have been able to advocate successfully for an evaluation through our school for our EG ds without having had a diagnosis already through a private neuropsych eval combined with a lot of research on our part re how to approach advocating (we most likely would not have been successful without the advice of a local advocate). It was really clear from the start of our advocacy that the SPED staff and school psychs were not used to seeing a child referred for evals who had such high ability scores, and we found the school staff was constantly trying to put the "reason" for lack of output in written expression back onto things such as lack of motivation or possible ADHD or "really he's doing fine".

The second (and ultimately most important reason) I recommend a private eval is that you'll (typically) get much more information from a private eval - you'll be able to talk freely to the tester and he/she will be able to share information and concerns with you freely without having to put them through a school-district filter. If it's a neuropsych eval your ds will go through not just the diagnostic ability and achievement testing but if an issue is suspected from those tests the neuropsych will administer additional tests to determine what's actually causing the issues. You'll also typically get a plan forward - recommendations on accommodations or remediation, suggestions or referrals for private therapists, and input on which local school programs are the best fit and what to watch out for when advocating at school. Those are all things you typically don't get from a school eval - the school is focused on what your child needs now to be educated in the typical classroom.

Best wishes,

polarbear