Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Underachievement in elementary school?

My 2nd grade son has struggled mightily in school since day 1. We tried a montessori pre-k which was an epic disaster and started off a long list of testing. After ruling out all sensory, OT issues and ADD/ADHD it was recommended that a more highly structured school would be better for him. After a year of no success there, we did a full psyched eval which ruled out 2e and put in squarely in the EG range, with potential in the PG range as he ceilinged a number of tests. The struggle in school was attributed to the major gap btw his EG/PG ability and what he is showing in school. Was told that with the right structure (which he is in), over time etc. this would resolve but it would take a long time ("hopefully by high school"). While he doesn't qualify for any IEP services, school has been great on working with him on differentiation etc. and he has a weekly individual tutor, but he is still only at high second grade level of most things and at level for spelling (this has gone down from last year). He loves school and is trying, but is still struggling and continues to underachieve. Any thoughts on what to do next? Thanks for the help/advice!

Yeah-- what KINDS of problems? Specifically, I mean.


Because this:


strikes me as a MAJOR red flag.

Something clearly still isn't right about this placement or you wouldn't be seeing what you're seeing.

The facts that you have before you:

he's "really trying" hard
not achieving at potential
has NOT got a disability which is masking ability
is in a suitable placement

The question is then-- which of these pieces of information is incorrect? Because they can't all be true.

I will say that barring a 2e issue, I think that many, many parents here (and I'm one of them) have watched in astonishment as the myriad, intractable "problems" (somatic complaints through underachievement and even psychiatric issues) melt away in a matter of hours or days when a TRUE "appropriate" placement is found, or when simply removing a child from an inappropriate one.

So consider what you see in other domains outside of school. Same? Or different?

This seems to me to be possibly an unidentified 2e issue.

Sorry I do not have an answer but only a question. Does he have true intellectual peers in school?

Is he cluster grouped with others at his level of readiness and ability? Or is he isolated, forced to choose between appropriate academic challenge -or- the prospect of being among others with whom he is sharing his academic experiences, struggles, and triumphs? Is he in a group of kids whom he may ask questions of, take turns being leader and follower, and observe that one child may be stronger in one subject/skill while another child may be stronger in another? Are his efforts praised, his hard work encouraged, or does he observe that others may feel his more rare intelligence profile is a burden to the classroom? Do others show in unspoken ways such as body language that they are wishing him away or wanting him to be different, less-than? Is he being made to be a social isolate? Do you ask him, what is the best thing that happened at school today? What is the worst?

A PG kid in general ed second grade may be more comfortable in 3rd... 4th... 5th. Have you considered the Iowa Acceleration Scale? Here is an article on that topic, from the Davidson database: http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10053.aspx

No advice, but much sympathy - we are in a similar boat with DS7.


I share the concern on this. It seems a bit circular, surely? And that's a long, long wait for things to "hopefully" improve.

Yes, what this means is that by the time he's in high school, he will be out of the elementary administration's jurisdiction, so they don't have to worry about it.

Thanks all for the thoughts/advice. HK...Problems are lack of focus in class, not working well with others, not utilizing time properly etc.-all pretty standard issues for this forum. All stand in the way of him appropriately integrating the reading, writing and spelling skills he needs to excel and be further differentiated in school. I agree with your thoughts about something is not right. I think the placement is not perfect, but after literally looking at every school within a 1 hour drive (and in discussions with the testing psychologist), there is not a better option until middle school. Also, hs is not an option b/c all (psychologists, tutor etc.) agree that while he does well (but not great) in isolation it will/does not translate well when he has to work/interact with others. He's pretty consistent across all areas of his life when with same age peers. He's had 3 independent evals focused on 2e issues and all are in agreement that he's not 2e. Still could be, but not sure what they could have missed--thoughts?

Also, Indigo...Yes, we ask all those questions at home and with 2 gifted siblings, he can get into those "deeper" conversations with them. At school, he technically is with his "ability" peers, but not with his thought peers. As with most (if not all on this thread) finding similar thought peers is easier said than done. The biggest struggle is since he continues to perform at the level he does, he is shut out of many of the programs/classes that require the "talent" part of g&t and not just the "gifted part".

So I guess I am basically looking for ideas to get through the rest of elementary school until we can get to a "better placement" (though that still waits to be seen).

Thanks again to all!

Ha! No kidding.

Has the school attempted end-of-year assessment tests for the end of second grade and third grade yet? Is that where they "know" he is only performing at high second grade level?

Yes...DRA at an M, spelling and handwriting are "within normal limits" (and therefore writing too), math is high second/low 3rd.

Are there areas he aces? Does he have some specialized learning he does for himself at home? You mention reading, writing, spelling as barriers. What about other areas? Is he just being measured by his weaknesses?

Afterthought... have you looked into the plethora of articles on the Davidson database regarding underachievement? Often when reading through a large body of work like this, parental intuition will click with recognition upon seeing something in one or more of the descriptions. Time consuming as it may be, becoming educated on various topics can pay off in the long run because parents know their children best. Reading up on this now may save time down the road by knowing key terms, various theories, identifiers/triggers, and what to look for in general.

some links -
Davidson database: http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/
Davidson database, search for underachievement showed 175 results! Lots of resources.
UConn article: http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/Siegle/Publications/GCQDifferentiateUnderachieving.pdf

Soapbox: If anyone may say "underachiever" please reject that as fixed mindset, preferring "underachievement", which denotes a temporary phenomena and exhibits the strength of a growth mindset. (More information on growth mindset and fixed is found on the Davidson database; Search for Dweck) One aspect or application of a fixed mindset is that gifted kids, in order to be seen as "right" or "smart", may stop taking appropriate risks, possibly shunning a challenge and preferring easy work which may represent a level of underachievement. A fixed mindset may work against them and be exhibited as a lack of resilience.

Hmm. Is it possible that math in particular is not giving him enough challenge and he's just meandering along in frustration?

Yes, he may be a cheetah in need of an antelope to chase. If given only rabbits or zoo chow, he may not run. He may be in need of a challenge worthy of his potential?

Link to Stephanie Tolan's metaphor, "Is it a cheetah?" http://www.stephanietolan.com/is_it_a_cheetah.htm

Great set of questions.

I'd also add-- is he "high average" in ability in those domains? Or does something about them seem "off" somehow relative to his verbal expression?

Some of that can be asynchrony, but if it's extreme, or if it just feels... wrong... then it's possible that there could be something under it, like dysgraphia. While his troubles may not be extreme enough-- yet-- to stand out to a teacher used to age-appropriate ability, if it's a major discontinuity with what feels like SHOULD be his writing ability, then that raises some red flags.

Dysgraphia and dyscalculia are often very easily missed in high potential children until much later in their academic careers because they have so many awesome compensating skills that hide the underlying weaknesses.

If he is not focusing in class, but focueses better alone, I would strongly consider ADHD. Not all ADHD kids are hyper, some appear largely as space cadets if there is too much stimuli around them. Is he slower with his work than the rest of the class, on average? Is he losing stuff, forgetting stuff, off-task?

7-year-old DD has ADHD and can focus for very long periods of time at home, if it's something she's interested in (even when she's not medicated)--for example read 2 chapter books in one sitting or do a large jigsaw puzzle--so that threw me off for a long time. I had to actually go in to class and see for myself what was going on. There's just so much stuff going on at school she can't focus or stay at task and little to no work gets done. She is "normal" on meds, however.

^ kids with processing disorders can also exhibit a lot of the same types of signs at this age.

Indigo....I love the cheetah article, thanks! We are definitely still looking for his antelope, though I fear sometimes we are looking in all the wrong places. His passion and strengths definitely lie in the realm of history, just need to get the other areas caught up so he can explore further--there is only so far he can go with someone else reading to him.

Audiobooks?

If you have a wireless-enabled e-reader, you might see if your state has a digital library that you can access.

I love to listen to Barbara Tuchman books while I knit or exercise.

So glad you like the cheetah metaphor, I enjoy sharing that link.

Agreed, any issues need to be addressed. Meanwhile there are many books by experts encouraging ways in which parents can focus on strengths. Being aware of one's own strengths, enjoying them, forming a part of one's identity based on them, feeling a sense of affirmation for one's strengths, being motivated to pursue areas of strength and interest... are things which a child will leverage to pull himself or herself through.

To indulge a non-reader's love of history, you may wish to look into DK books (Dorling-Kindersley). They are richly illustrated, often with tools and artifacts of a time period. One can learn a lot from the fascinating pictures and this may keep him well occupied when adults are not available to read to him. He may wish to mark pages with tiny sticky notes to indicate things he has questions about or would like to discuss. This may help him hold his thoughts until an adult is free to help read the captions or text.

DK books are definitely a staple in our house and they are well worn. Unfortunately growing bored with them. Have exhausted the public library. Just wish there were more history based resources I could access for after schooling like all the great math ones I have found for my other kids.

Story of the world is on audio read by Jim Weiss...and there are companion activity books that go with them. I remember we mummified a chicken when studying Egypt.

From one bibliophile to another, while I can't recommend a history series for non-readers, sometimes it is fun cobbling together a collection of different books including those with pop-up features, richly illustrated, and/or having artifacts like letters in pockets.

In case he may not have seen these yet, and if you think these may be of interest:
1) The White House In Miniature, by Gail Buckland, 1994. Great pictures tell the story for now, great text for later.
2) Timechart of World History. Several versions and title variations available.
3) The Story of the Statue of Liberty with moveable illustrations (pop-up book).
4) Lewis and Clark on the Trail of Discovery: An Interactive History with Removable Artifacts (Museum in a Book)

Did you know that public libraries can arrange inter-library loans to bring in books from collections held at other libraries?

Another economical alternative may be Half-Price Books, Goodwill, and rummage sales (especially school fundraiser rummage sales) for interesting history books.

There are online resources as well, in case that may work for your family. Many are easily found through search engines, including...
1) http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/forkids/
2) http://www.kidsolr.com/history/
3) http://www.havefunwithhistory.com/HistorySubjects/

The "you wouldn't want to be" series are fun.