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Although there are different reasons behind dysgraphia (fine motor vs visual etc), the thing that I understand to be common is that it is essentially a challenge with developing automaticity of tasks. From my perspective, the thing to do at this point is to take a deep breath and.... let it go. Focus on typing and accommodating and give your ds time and opportunities to focus on his academic strengths (science or puzzles or math or whatever they may be!). I totally agree with this but I think I just need reassurance regarding this sometimes. So thank you! I got to this point last year and decided to force the school to get to this point as well (as you remember), i.e., let it go mostly and focus on typing and accommodating and give DS time/opportunities to focus on his academic strengths. But, like you alluded to in your post, I, at times, get a little concered that my letting go is "giving up" and also I find myself wondering - with dyslexia there is/are proven methods of successful remediation (albeit hard hard to find and expensive, etc) - why isn't there something for dysgraphia? maybe there is and I missing it. I think the catalyst for my post/question was this year I am stopping the private OT (he'll continue to OT at school - but they will teach him cursive and typing). I want DS to do swimmming, chess club and mathansium (i.e., I want DS to start extracurriculars that he enjoys and are his passion and make him feel good about himself instead of spending yet another year in therapy focusing on his deficit that never seems to really go anywhere or get much better).
Last edited by Irena; 09/18/13 10:13 AM. Reason: changed eluded to alluded
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mom2one, a lot of what you wrote sounds like my ds who has a diagnosis of Developmental Coordination Disorder and fine motor dysgraphia. he has a terribly hard time with 9's and P's. I am suspecting dysgraphia (not just for the 9's and P's, but also for handwriting mechanics as spaces between words, capitalizing the first letter at the beginning of a sentence etc). His handwriting is legible (to me), but seems below average when compared to some of the kids in his class. I do make him practice every day for 15 minutes. The description of his handwriting fits dysgraphia, although I'm also not sure how old he is (?). You noted you're having him practice for 15 minutes every day - if there wasn't a challenge, I would expect you'd see improvements from that practice (unless he's still not quite developmentally ready for handwriting, in a totally neurotypical age-appropriate way :)). I've taught him to proofread, before submitting the work to me/his teachers. He is an excellent reader, however, he sometimes does not catch the backward Ps (he always catches the backward 9s though). Is this par for the course ? I don't know that there are any standard commonalities in this among dysgraphics, but I have noticed with my ds (he's 13), that proofreading handwriting doesn't work all that well - he doesn't have any challenges with reading, but he misses some things when he proofreads what he's handwritten. Proofreading works much better for him when he's typing  For my ds, the reversals lessened over time - a *lot* of time lol, he still does them every now and then. The other thing he tells me is that he is often surprised when he looks back at things he has handwritten (notes, for example), because he "knows he told his brain to do it a certain way" and then when he sees it on the paper "it's like I wrote something entirely different than what I was telling my brain to write". The other thing that worries me a lot is that he routinely gets his right and left mixed up. He knows it when he has time, but in a gym-like setting, he says he cannot think ! Same for my ds! It still takes him obvious thought to get his directions correct, very out -of-sync with what I had expected compared to his other obvious thinking abilities when he was young We moved a couple of months back, and I am wondering whether it makes sense for an OT eval or a neuro-psych eval. Irena, sorry for adding questions to your thread -- this has been worrying me a lot, and I never seem to find the time these days to log in and post. You're seeing symptoms and it's worrying you, so yes, it makes sense to get an eval. The worst thing that can happen is you might find out everything is a-ok, and really, that would be nice, wouldn't it? And if there is a challenge, it's better to find out now rather than hesitating only to find out for sure in a few years. Time is so valuable in terms of remediating and learning how to accommodate and live with a challenge for a young child. Don't hesitate to act on what your mom's instinct is telling you. Best wishes, polarbear
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Although there are different reasons behind dysgraphia (fine motor vs visual etc), the thing that I understand to be common is that it is essentially a challenge with developing automaticity of tasks. From my perspective, the thing to do at this point is to take a deep breath and.... let it go. Focus on typing and accommodating and give your ds time and opportunities to focus on his academic strengths (science or puzzles or math or whatever they may be!). I totally agree with this but I think I just need reassurance regarding this sometimes. Irena, if it helps, please know I need reassurance at times too, and I often question what to do. It's easy for me to write a post about our experiences and to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but I am just one mom who's trying my best without much of a roadmap other than researching online, talking to everyone I can (professional or not), and figuring out what makes sense for my one child and my one family. My dd9 is struggling with reading - she's not classically dyslexic but has a challenge with associative memory and has a dyslexia diagnosis. She's in a new school this year, with a new teacher, and when we were having our beginning-of-the-year conference and I was handing the teacher dd's reading evals, telling her about dd's history and challenges and all that, the teacher asked what we had done to remediate spelling. We haven't done anything - we chose not to because it was a struggle, because it drove dd nuts, and because we felt we needed to focus on actual reading, not worrying about whether or not spelling was automatic at this point in time. I can't tell you how many shades of guilt through embarassment through second-questioning what we'd done up to this point in time I went through just in that one split-second before I asnwered, and how worried I was about the teacher thinking I'd been negligent plus the teacher thinking I was a slacker-mom or whatever. But fortunately, the teacher agreed that was the thing to do based on everything else I only mention all of that to let you know, I may sound like I have a clue or have it all together sometimes here, but I'm really still just in the same place the rest of us all are - looking for answers, thinking everything through re how it applies for my own child, and hoping I make good choices. I doubt there are really any "right" choices, and I'm still learning from everyone who posts here Re the remediation available for dyslexia vs dysgraphia - I think the difference is in the root of the challenge combined with the need for remediation. I also think that dysgraphia has gone largely unrecognized until recent years because it's easy to mistake it for sloppy handwriting, whereas a child who can't read stands out and falls behind quickly in early elementary. polarbear
Last edited by polarbear; 09/18/13 10:13 AM.
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I have EDS on my mind today since DS has his appointment with the geneticist this afternoon.
I am wondering about EDS and dysgraphia.
My son has been in OT for eighteen months. Proprioception is still really bad. I have read that EDSers often have proprioception defecits. As I recall, the theory is that EDSers get inconsistent feedback from their joints. I am wondering if in the same way an EDSer doesn't automatically know their body position if an EDSer might not gain automacy in handwriting because the connection between how it feels to write an "a" and the idea to write an "a" is muddled.
I have also read that increased supportive muscle strength can help stabilize joints and improve proprioception. Of course normal weight training would not be appropriate for a child with EDS but maybe something with high reps., limited range of motion and low weight might help.
Now I could be wrong on this, but in my opinion, the gains a prepubescent child would have in supportive muscle from such a routine would be minimal. It might just be something that comes with time.
My mom says I was "embarrassingly uncoordinated" as a child. I remember being frustrated with my handwriting in elementary. It always looked sloppy like the trouble maker boys in my class. These issues went away with puberty. I still write more slowly than other people and I am not particularly graceful but it isn't as obvious as when I was a kid.
Anyway, I am just rambling. I don't have any recs. on dysgraphia remediation. I have just been looking at this stuff since the standard proprioception remediation isn't working for my son. This is interesting and I definitely think you are to something here. My DS has the dyspraxia - uncoordination and proprioception deficits. My DS also has EDS. My husband does not *seem* to have EDS (as far as I can tell but I am not a doc) but he certainly seems to be dysgraphic (I am almost certain that he is, at the least, mildly dysgraphic) and had many of the same issues in elementary - including the spelling and the proprioception deficits. He said much of such issues resolved when he hit puberty AND, coinciding with his physical improvements, middle school was when using computers to write and complete work became more the norm so that helped immensely as well. He says before puberty he couldn't tie his shoes, and didn't know his left from right consistently. I think he is exaggerating a bit but I believe that it was quite late before he could tie his shoes or know left from right (whereas my brothers and I had both of those basic skills master by the age of 5 and with very little trouble). Now, DH is a very "normal," coordinated guy who plays roller hockey and volleyball and works as a very successful hardware engineer. He's no star olympic athlete but he plays well and at least appears "quite normal" He still avoids writing by hand at any cost, however. (Oh and I believe his EF skills are still weak - LOL) This summer we did an "out of the box" therapy for my DS. It involved a "listening therapy" (specifically tomatis and I will say I have no idea still if tomatis is "snake oil" or not LOL. We did it anyway.) combined with "balametrics" and some other type of therapy (name which escapes me at the moment) designed specifically to help with proprioception and coordination. I have to admit DS is much more coordinated now - he can do jumping jacks, he knows his left from his right now (automatically!!!!), he suddenly is "getting" the hang of true swimming (coordinating strokes, for example), etc. Yesterday, he picked up a string and shocked himself by tying it. I am glad we did the therapy b/c even though knowing how to do jumping jacks or tying a piece of string, on the surface, doesn't seem like that big of deal - the general increase in coordination (and ability to do seemingly simple tasks that had always somehow eluded him) has given him confidence and he doesn't feel like a "fool" or an 'oaf' as much anymore. Also, DS's reading suddenly and significanlty improved with the therapy... The therapist says that the work on the proprioception directly contributed and helped his reading - I have no idea but, heck, I'll take it! The therapy was expensive, intense and hasn't accomplished all it seemed to promise (e.g. his EF skills were suppose to improve and while they *may* have improved 'slightly' - it certainly hasn't been anywhere close to a significant enough improvement to make any kind of difference. Anyway, just some rambling thoughts
Last edited by Irena; 09/18/13 10:33 AM.
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No diagnosis, but good odds for me and perhaps slightly lower odds for DS. It would be interesting to know some better categorical root diagnoses. Like lack of automaticity versus hand eye control versus mirror neuron dysfunction versus ?
The best thing I did for myself and writing is dropping lower case letters some time in HS. The upper case letter forms are much easier to remember and distinguish versus the mass of same basic instruction lower case. Seriously: a, b, d, p, q, g,(sometimes also h, r, j, e, c get squashed in); line and a curve, got it. Where do you start the circle, do you do the line before the circle, is it always a circle or is it sometimes more of a c? can I retrace the lines or do I have to pick-up the pencil each time?... etc.
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The best thing I did for myself and writing is dropping lower case letters some time in HS. The upper case letter forms are much easier to remember and distinguish versus the mass of same basic instruction lower case. Seriously: a, b, d, p, q, g,(sometimes also h, r, j, e, c get squashed in); line and a curve, got it. Where do you start the circle, do you do the line before the circle, is it always a circle or is it sometimes more of a c? can I retrace the lines or do I have to pick-up the pencil each time?... etc. This is a really interesting tip - fwiw, I went to an engineering school and most folks there dropped caps once we'd taken our first-semester drafting course, because in drafting you only use caps There are also a few forms of "new" handwriting that combine cursive and printing - they leave out all the fancy loop-de-loops etc, and it looks basically like printing but with connecting lines. I'll try to see if I can find a link to info on it - I first heard about it on NPR, but also have read about it with respect to a simplified way for dysgraphics to learn handwriting. pbear
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The best thing I did for myself and writing is dropping lower case letters some time in HS. The upper case letter forms are much easier to remember and distinguish versus the mass of same basic instruction lower case. Seriously: a, b, d, p, q, g,(sometimes also h, r, j, e, c get squashed in); line and a curve, got it. Where do you start the circle, do you do the line before the circle, is it always a circle or is it sometimes more of a c? can I retrace the lines or do I have to pick-up the pencil each time?... etc. This is a really interesting tip - fwiw, I went to an engineering school and most folks there dropped caps once we'd taken our first-semester drafting course, because in drafting you only use caps There are also a few forms of "new" handwriting that combine cursive and printing - they leave out all the fancy loop-de-loops etc, and it looks basically like printing but with connecting lines. I'll try to see if I can find a link to info on it - I first heard about it on NPR, but also have read about it with respect to a simplified way for dysgraphics to learn handwriting. pbear Yes, please see if you can find the info on it! I tried googling it but haven't found anything yet!
Last edited by Irena; 09/18/13 10:42 AM.
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He says before puberty he couldn't tie his shoes, and didn't know his left from right consistently. I think he is exaggerating a bit He might not be exaggerating! My ds was very close to puberty before he learned how to tie his shoes and is now well into puberty and is just now starting to have an easier grip on knowing left vs right This summer we did an "out of the box" therapy for my DS. It involved a "listening therapy" (specifically tomatis and I will say I have no idea still if tomatis is "snake oil" or not LOL. We did it anyway.) combined with "balametrics" and some other type of therapy (name which escapes me at the moment) designed specifically to help with proprioception and coordination. I have to admit DS is much more coordinated now This is *really* interesting to me - thanks so much for mentioning it. My older dd went through a listening therapy (tomatis-like) when she was 5 as well as a Bal-a-Vis-X program and it helped her tremendously, but she has a very different set of challenges than ds - so I hadn't thought about any of this in relation to the challenges ds has. [quote[he suddenly is "getting" the hang of true swimming (coordinating strokes, for example), etc.[/quote[ This is another reason I love this board and love having others share their experiences. For all the awareness that I have about DCD and my ds' challenges, I never until reading this put together his dislike of swimming lessons as being related to coordination challenges, don't ask me why! Now that you mention it, it totally fits with what he's told me about his struggles with swimming lessons. even though knowing how to do jumping jacks or tying a piece of string, on the surface, doesn't seem like that big of deal - the general increase in coordination (and ability to do seemingly simple tasks that had always somehow eluded him) has given him confidence and he doesn't feel like a "fool" or an 'oaf' as much anymore. I so totally understand that - being able to do a jumping jack *is* a big deal.. when you're a kid who hasn't been able to. My ds still can't do one - he'd love love love to be able to. Not that he cares about jumping jacks at all, but because he wouldn't feel so different from other kids. [/quote] pbear
Last edited by polarbear; 09/18/13 10:43 AM.
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The best thing I did for myself and writing is dropping lower case letters some time in HS. The upper case letter forms are much easier to remember and distinguish versus the mass of same basic instruction lower case. Seriously: a, b, d, p, q, g,(sometimes also h, r, j, e, c get squashed in); line and a curve, got it. Where do you start the circle, do you do the line before the circle, is it always a circle or is it sometimes more of a c? can I retrace the lines or do I have to pick-up the pencil each time?... etc. This is a really interesting tip yes it is... My DS has this issue and he writes in a combination of upper and lower case becasue of it. I was giving him a hard time about it but I think I'll stop now.
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This is another reason I love this board and love having others share their experiences. For all the awareness that I have about DCD and my ds' challenges, I never until reading this put together his dislike of swimming lessons as being related to coordination challenges, don't ask me why! Now that you mention it, it totally fits with what he's told me about his struggles with swimming lessons. Oh yes! Veyr related. For my ds, coordinating on each side of his body isn't nearly as much of an issue as coordinating arms and legs... He could not kick his legs while doing the arm strokes (and vice versa) because he could not coordinate two different movements on the top half and lower half of his body. Poor guy was so determined to swim and so frustrated. The therapy helped, as well as one-on-one swimming lessons (and tremendous determination in his part with me supoporting it - i.e. making swimming proactice almost as high as a priority as sleep - seriously.) Now, will he swim the olympics? No. Will he be on swim team? I doubt it. But he'll be able to actually swim, compentently. The other thing I am doing is doing the lessons year round. His instructor says it looks like he'll be able to go on to group lessons in a month or so. I am not sure if the tomatis helped. I really do not know. And now they want him to do at least one intensive of IM. My DH thinks the "listening therapy" part is crap. I'll probably have him do it b/c if it can't hurt and there is a chance it could help, I can't help but do it. I do think whatever the exercises they have him doing while he is doing the tomatis/IM is helping, though!
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