Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Wow! 4 standard dev. spread

It will take some time to get the full written report but I do know that my DS had 4 full sd between highest and lowest sections. Processing speed of course being lowest.

His vision issues and writing issues plus anxiety made our well known tester say this was one of the most difficult WISCs he had ever administered.

He qualified for DYS on WISC, WIAT, and WJ. But only barely with all the challenges on his WISC. His FSIQ was just under gifted range. We were told 6wks for full written report.

There is no clear answer on what to do with him. "Extreme Asynchrony" were the precise words used. Now we start working on an out of the box plan for a very out of the box kid.

Wow. Congrats on getting such a useful and informative assessment. I'm sorry for the struggles that inherent in that kind of spread, but isn't it nice to know you're not crazy!

That's wonderful that you have this information in hand. Congrats on the DYS qualification; having their support will doubtless provide you with some support in this otherwise challenging time. Hugs to you and your son!

Thanks! I am just in shock.... Yet I know these results were very reflective of what he was able to do and they fill in data that makes sense of other things. I am beyond thankful to be able to apply for DYS once I get the reports next month. I need all the help I can get.

My DS finally opened up more about school last night. He says, "I just have to work so hard and then it's totally worthless because I don't ever even learn anything!"

With sub scores way up in the 150's on lots of the achievement, how do you meet his need to learn without letting his disabilities become barriers?

And how do you explain the significance of a 4 SD spread to those who don't have any understanding of testing (i.e. elementary teachers)?

I know this is testing talk but it's mostly about 2e for us...


These results also left me remembering how I scored just under gifted range on my FSIQ when I was 11. I really want to get copies of those tests as I remember the tester saying I tanked processing and I remember being totally stuck copying block patterns.

With just a FSIQ my kid would be "bright". Going forward I need to be aware of this...

Also obvious on this round of testing is that ANY written or timed component shuts him down fast. Written AND timed brings total shut down, major anxiety attack, and full on refusal.

It sounds like a similar profile to my DS7 and it has been a fun ride for us so far. He scored in the 9th percentile for processing speed, in the 60 something %tile for WMI and then 99+ for VCI & PRI. We met with the school and presented the 14 page report to them part way through last year and all his IEP did was focus on accommodations. When I asked about addressing the gifted side of things their response was that they do differentiation so that would take care of that (don't get me started on that one....).

The accommodations have helped a bit. DS really doesn't like writing and is very slow at it so being allowed to have someone scribe for him as somewhat reduced the battles. On the other hand he is still completely bored in some areas. We were really lucky with his science teacher who was pretty good at differentiation and probably the best teacher we've had so far. As a result he didn't completely hate science, got a good mark and wasn't a complete disaster behaviour wise. Math last year was the complete opposite. The teacher refused to give him different work unless he finished EVERYTHING the class was doing first (DS wasn't motivated to do it just to get MORE to do so of course didn't do any of the work). His behaviour for her was horrendous (she was the one that pushed us to get testing because she was convinced he was ADHD). She was also the one that taught French, reading, writing and social studies and those are a battle because of the writing.

We're only a week into the new school year and I'm doing my best to keep out of it and give the new teacher a chance to get to know him before talking to her. The school has a meet the teacher night later this week so I'll have a quick chat and try to keep it to "have you read the IEP, please contact me with any questions and problems sooner rather than later" kind of thing.

So in other words I don't have a good answer for "how do you explain the significance of a 4 SD spread to those who don't have any understanding of testing (i.e. elementary teachers)?" It hasn't worked very well for us so far since they only seem to want to address the bottom end of things. I'm Canadian so I don't have access to DYS (maybe he wouldn't qualify anyways...) but I must say I'm jealous of those resources. Good luck and hope you're able to move towards something that works.

I know that feel. DS9 had a 100 for VCI and a 145 for PRI! Can we say frustration issues?!

Good luck to you guys. I know a year of counseling (CBT) did wonders for DS. I'm planning on having him re-tested this spring/summer to see how things have improved.

HappilyMom - I'm glad you have some answers to the things you'd been wondering about - the things you've learned from the neuropsych should help tremendously as you move forward to advocate for accommodations etc.


This is jmo, but honestly, you don't. What you need to explain are the specifics of how each challenge your ds has impacts his ability to show his knowledge and complete his schoolwork. If there are areas he needs remediation or individualized instruction, you need to explain why he needs the outside-the-box help. My ds has around a 3 SD discrepancy on his WISC - but really that discrepancy is more of a fall-out of the challenge, not the root cause. I try to focus on what is really going on and to show examples of how the challenge impacts rather than expecting to get accommodations or understanding based on the discrepancy in IQ subtests. For example, this is how I advocate for one of my ds' challenges - dysgraphia. I explain that ds has a neurological impairment that causes him to not be able to use handwriting reliably to show his knowledge, the challenge is that he hasn't developed (and won't develop) automaticity of handwriting, when he uses handwriting he does not have working memory freed to work about other things such as punctuation, grammar, spelling, *content* etc. I have examples of his written work with handwriting, scribing, and keyboarding. I also have examples of timed handwriting and can compare that with data that is representative of what typical student handwriting speed is for each grade level. In addition to those things, it has helped me to have brief summaries that explain dysgraphia very very simply and to the point and that were put together by credible sources who were far removed from either myself or my neuropsychologist And I refer to the section of our neuropsych report that *isn't* the testing section, but instead lists in plain English what my ds needs to be successful in the classroom, and lists a diagnosis.



Our ds was in this same place when he was initially diagnosed - so we started him learning to type right away. I also started scribing for him on homework until he was capable of typing. I would start advocating for scribing or keyboarding in the classroom right away too - for anything other than short answer (1-2 words). And of course follow any other recommendations you received in the neuropsych report.

Good luck advocating!

polarbear

Thank you all so much!

I feel like I'm riding a rollercoaster and today was a really good day.

I had a good 45min talk with the school psych who said she'd never seen a 60pt spread and began strategizing with me openly about getting an emergency 504 in place (with the import of getting the classroom teacher to take his needs more seriously about which SHE seemed frustrated and concerned). We have a 6wk wait to get the full written report and recommendations from the NeuroPsych so she wants to get the 504 in place in a single meeting as soon as she can pull the team.

Then she says we should use the 6wk wait to get the.... oh what do you call the observations of how the disabilities are affecting school?? What ever that is called, she wants to do a few of those--one for each of his issues. That would get everything in place for an IEP meeting in about 6wks to cover his needs more completely.

She seemed very interested and open to the NP's recommendations and specifically that he be placed at his cognitive level with support for his disabilities. SHE brought up assistive technologies like Dragon Speak herself and made notes about starting him on some ATs.

She is genuinely fascinated and impressed with my child and is also the lead for all 504/IEP plans in the school. She seems to be taking up his cause!

She even thanked me for how understanding I have been of their constraints and told me how lucky my son is to have me for a mother.

Somebody pinch me because this is like a dream response to get from public school. I am feeling phenomenally blessed by this answer to our prayers and I really hope I have a school that is willing to flex along with my very unusual child and his needs.

I'm going to start a new post but the school psych wants a checklist of accommodations for the 504 and seems to be open to those coming from me.

I feel you! My DS has a 62 point spread!!! No one around here (ETA: by "around here" I mean around me geographically, i.e., the neuropsych, not this board or anything! ) seems all that shocked by it so I was starting to feel odd that I was so alarmed by it. But yay! for the school psych! Honestly, one of my favorite people on my son's IEP team is our school psych... She backs me up... Last meeting, she totally agreed with me when no one else did. Of course she hasn't been to another IEP since LOL - I often wonder if the principal does something behind the scenes to keep her away LOL

Irena--ah! I knew some of you I had felt some common ground with would have some of these similarities. It was so wonderful to have the school psych respond with as much shock as I felt. I think my Neuropsych got it because he's a nationally known gifted expert and author. I can't wait to see what he writes in his report. But now I need to think about what do we ask for. I am so green that it's hard to know what to ask. I feel like the door is open and I'd like to get as much started as we can.

HappilyMom, my DD had a 43 point spread between VCI and WMI, that was shocking enough. I really feel for you. I am glad you have someone at school who seems to get it!

Thank you! I feel like all of these children are so amazing working everyday with such massive mental/physical bottle-necks and such astounding minds. They are truly such special people.

HappilyMom, i am very happy to see your post. we are likewise waiting for the report to go along with my ds WISC IV results. A 76 point spread VCI to WMI has certainly given me a lot to contemplate and learn how to better advocate for. I am learning new terms like 504, IEP, accommodations, etc.

Thank you for sharing, and I look forward to learning with you. As overwhelming as this information seems at times, I can only imagine what some tasks feel like to him on a daily basis.

HappilyMom- so glad someone in the school is there helping you! What a stressful process. Hope with the school psych's help, things will go smoothly! Keep us posted!

Similar for DS5 (he was tested as a 4 year old last month). His performance was 98%ile +, verbal was somewhere in the 90's%ile, processing speed was 10%ile. Massive difference! Good to know all of this as he starts school. Now to sort out what to do with this info. Good luck!!

Similar for DS5 (he was tested as a 4 year old last month). His performance was 98%ile +, verbal was somewhere in the 90's%ile, processing speed was 10%ile. Massive difference! Good to know all of this as he starts school. Now to sort out what to do with this info. Good luck!!

I am glad that I read this thread. Dd was tested last week and we do not have her scores yet, because her psych wants to look at how all of the tests compare to one another and the teacher/parent evaluations. He told us that her iq test results will be skewed because her auditory memory and "organization of thoughts/ideas" are both impaired, which of course sent us into a panic! Reading your post and the responses helps me realize we are not alone.

It's encouraging to read that your school and counselor are on your side! Our teachers and curriculum director at Dd's school are similarly responsive, and we have a dyslexia teacher on staff along with a speech path and a great counselor (who our psych speaks highly of). I feel optimistic that our team will work well with us, so I understand your position. I will be following your posts to see what advice is given to you.