Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Do you pick extracurriculars?

Just curious how other families approach extracurricular activities. Do you choose or does your child?

My child picks - but then I'll remind him he's committed, if necessary. Also, his school has the policy that if you're picked for a team or a musical group, you do it, so certain things that would often be seen as extra-curricular end up not being optional.

our policy was going to be, "you must do one arts and one athletics + swimming because that's a life skill."

but for some unknown reason, DD5 picked dance on her own at 1 yr (though she couldn't start for over a year) and now she's dancing 4 days a week + swimming, so maybe that kind of worked out anyway, because dance is both athletics and arts?

and who knows, maybe the dance won't last, and i'll have to fall back on the "rule."

Both:-) Our DD is 6, so that factors into in. Right now she takes piano lessons and has for three years. While she REALLY wants to play the violin, we've told her that she needs to take piano for one more year because we own a piano, she needs to develop a habit for practicing daily and hopefully, she will be able to read music better, so that she can start the violin next year.
She also does children's choir at church and soccer in the fall. That is enough in my opinion. If she gets over scheduled it just means lots of meltdowns and rough nights! She really wants to take dance, but will hold off on that until this winter when we've found a studio that lets you join at any time & no recital!

It's a tough balance. Kids need to be kids, but finding that balance can be hard. Our DD needs days where she can just simply be at home playing.

Good luck!

School music is virtually mandatory. Swim lessons mandatory until I'm satisfied that they'd be OK if they fell off a boat.

Other things (social, physical) are encouraged; we started them as Scouts in first grade, and they've continued. We've been very lucky that our kids are liking the things we encouraged so far...

DeeDee

100% DS7's choice as long as his commitment surpasses the commitment he's asking for from us.

This was my parent's policy growing up, and I picked dance and piano as a child. I went through the entire swim program at the Y from mommy and me (which was called "Tadpoles" back then to "Flying Fish" (which I completed maybe around 10). We went to lessons 8-9 months of the year.

My DS is only 4. He takes a tumbling and trampolining class at a local gym which he loves and I just signed him up again for swim class. He has taken some group music classes, and I considered starting private lessons this fall, but I dont think he is ready. He loves the art classes at the museum so I will probably sign him up for those again.

DD chooses. Once we agree to something, she has to remain committed for whatever the appropriate duration is (some classes are paid in 3-month increments, full sports season, etc). She's free to change that out for a new activity once the commitment period has passed.

Here's a catalog of things she's tried so far... asterisk means it's still active:

Dance
Gymnastics
*Cheer and Tumble
Guitar
Soccer
*Drama
*Girl Scouts

Swim classes are something I see here frequently mentioned. We've got that covered at home.

DS 7 swims and does gymnastics. Both help with his strength and coordination for his writing issues. We insisted on the swimming, partially because there are aspects that he is good at which is good for him to have in a physical activity and also DeeDee's falling off a boat aspect. Gymnastics came about because we insisted he have another sport and we asked him which he liked best from camp and he chose gymnastics. He does both on the weekends because he absolutely refuses to do anything after school. We have allowed that because he has a long day, has homework and seems to really need the downtime to read and work his imagination. He has never been the go to the playground kind of kid.

Before school he did soccer and music nod all sorts of stuff, but now a t this age, I let him make the choice within the parameter that he needed to do a sport. He will get a musical instrument next year in school.

DeHe

I did at first because DD was a baby when she started - swimming (mandatory IMO) at a few months old, gymnastics too, and ballet at 3. Now at 6 she is a fantastic swimmer and loves her lessons, ditto gymnastics, but last year she decided to quit ballet in favour of girl guides. I was a little resistant, and she still misses the recitals, but overall I think it was a great call by her. Ballet was too repetitive and she just didn't need all that practice, and her GG den is awesome.
She has a big wishlist of more activities she wants to do - maybe a different type of dance, tap or hip hop, we looked at an art class but it didn't gel, sometimes she wants to learn a language, sometimes she wants to do netball or soccer, but her big wish is horseriding lessons, which we're going to let her start next year.
Generally we have a rule that we both have to agree, whether it's after-school activities, or what clothes she's wearing Not sure how long that rule will last!

I chose in the early years. Also, some things were winter and some summer, because we went to the beach and there were other options.

Swimming was a must, safety since we were on the ocean for the summer. Tennis, Sailing, nature camps where she learned to kayak.
Early soccer, though she was not that interested and time ran out. Ballet, gymnastics, chess in school, piano, Chinese school.

Then piano was really pushed but then she didn't love it. When it was expected that she start competition we made the choice to back off and do regular piano, just to keep it up. This is her main talent so it is hard to drop it completely. Many kids at this age get tired of the practicing. Dance became her focus but then ballet became 2X a week, with jazz and hip hop, at a pre professional program, but her choice.

So now it is dance, and acting as her choices, with piano keep up and Chinese as my requirements. She also dabbles with horseback riding and sailing but they are week long camps in the summer. And tennis.

I think there are dabble type of activities that work in the summer without full on commitment. Things to make social life easier when you get older. Like skiing and skating. Those are also sometimes activities.

We chose when she was little, but as soon as she could talk, she had input. (We didn't always listen, but there you go.)

Our rule is much like Dude and ColinsMum have alluded: you have to do it until the commitment is ended in some natural way.

She has done:

ballet
tumbling
tai chi
*walking*
dog agility
*dog obedience (regular and Rally-O)*
*dog freestyle*
Aikkido
golf (this one she may pick back up again)
tennis
tap
soccer (indoor league-- she eventually lost interest)
violin
pottery
*drawing*
watercolor
Lego robotics
Computer classes
*Piano*
*4-H dog*
*4-H pigeon*
*4-H rabbit*
archery
*skeet (shotgun)*
swimming (she finished lessons and would have joined a club team, but they basically told us to pound sand re: disability and got backing from the national legal team in so doing, so, uh, no)
*writer's group (moderated/led by a local YA author)*
*tabletop RPG*
chess
debate (tried this through the school, and sadly-- IT WAS SO LAME. She loved it and tried to make it work, but it was just not the level she needed. )
*4-H Communications (this would include posters/speeches)*
bicycling (she comes and goes with this-- has a GORGEOUS bike, but seldom rides, though truth be told, we DO live at the top of a pretty steep hill, so.)
gardening
*volunteer activities-- gardening, composting, outreach, working with children, literacy, food insecurity/food bank, etc.*


* current activity

She'd also like to pick up rifle target shooting this year, now that she's 14. She'd also like to try accordian/viola at some point. In college, she wants to get a chance to do some community theater. She thinks that she might still be young enough for the role of Louisa von Trapp in a local production this fall... but OMG, how busy is she already??

Please understand, too, that most of this list is stuff that is never going to look prestigious to anyone. It's just stuff that she does because it makes her happy, or can actually teach her some of the things that she desperately needs to learn (but will probably NOT learn in school).

For example: an animal simply doesn't understand the concept of "cramming" before competition. Nor does piano work that way. You can't practice for four hours once a week, the morning before your lesson. LOL. DD has tried that, believe me.

This is my policy too! I choose because of the young age of the child and if I can see that there is no real problem with any activity, my DS cannot quit until he has a compelling reason to do so.

We have been doing swimming from when DS was 8 months old (Daddy and me swim class and then moved on to training with a coach) because it is not negotiable.
He is 6 years old now and he has been doing Tae Kwon Do for 2 years (he wanted to do a martial arts and I chose TKD based on my research of all martial arts styles), Soccer for 3 years (part of afterschool enrichment at school) as sports. Last spring, I added in TBall and it got crazy for me. So, I am not adding in another sport any more until some sport in our schedule comes to a logical conclusion.
For arts, I chose piano, because he is very musical. He started group lessons at 4 and moved to private lessons after a year. He now wants to try other instruments while keeping the piano lessons going which will not happen due to no time in our schedules.
And DH wanted our kid in Chess, so he has been attending chess classes at a chess school for over a year. Since he is not doing great at it, we gave him the option to quit which he refused because he loves the classes!

We were all about the "swimming is a mandatory life skill," until we ran up against SPD. DD9 can never, ever progress past the very first level of swim class, no matter how many years she spends on it, if she will not put her face in the water. We eventually stopped pushing once she demonstrated the ability to tread water for long enough to not drown if she falls in. DS5 doesn't even have that.

aww, your poor kiddo. i failed Pre-Beginner 8 times, and probably would have kept right on failing before an instructor took pity on me and accommodated my mysterious inability to float (i did learn to swim once i was actually allowed to kick). so extra well done for your DD for learning to tread in spite of everything - and good for you for working around things so nicely!

That's me! After many years of swim lessons (mandatory at school) I could never do it. I finally learned to tread the water for a minute or two on my own around 3rd grade and learned to swim on my own in 7th grade. I still do NOT put my face in the water and can't stand water in my eyes but I have no issues swimming long distance than my sister who learned to swim when she was in preschool. Our boys 5 and 3 have yet to take swim lessons. DS5 has the same SPD issues I had so with him we won't push it at all. Plus he has cold allergy so swimming isn't really recommended for him because of the temperature changes. DS3 will have to start soon because as soon as he sees water, he wants to jump head first. (I had to jump for him into our friends pool once last year ... wasn't a big pool but plenty big for a kid to drown. That and his autism (we're calling it autism until it's proved otherwise), in his case it truly is a life skill he needs to learn just in case. But I cannot be the one to teach him. His dad will, probably in the winter.

We are not doing any extracurricular just yet. Though we will be testing waters with gymnastics for both boys for 4 weeks in September just to see how they do with something that's more organized. Definitely want to do some music later in elementary school and probably earlier at home, though no formal lessons. I did have formal lessons for 7 years and hated it and always really liked just picking up a different instrument, learning on my own, playing by ear for fun.

Aside: Definitely do the firearms training! It's a terrific life skill and requires a lot of discipline and analysis. Your DD might want to look into Kelly Bachand, who is a rifle prodigy, for inspiration.

We picked them when our children were very young, didn't really know what they wanted to do, and because we wanted them to have a chance to try new things. As they got older and wanted to choose themselves we let them choose, within reason (as in, my dd9 who wants to do *everything* still only has 7 days in each week, has to attend school too, and is limited by her parents budget, much to her chagrin - life can be rough lol!). We do try to be sure our kids are staying physically active, and we have kept them in piano lessons even though each has gone through a phase of wanting to quit at various times - but ultimately they were only phases and I kept them in through it because in my own experience, I felt that piano was the best all-round instrument to study to learn music theory, and knowing piano made it easy for me to learn to play other instruments when I wanted to. We've usually had a bit of an idea of whether or not it was best to drop an activity all together when our kids wanted to drop it or whether or not it was a temporary feeling that they would get past. If they were truly miserable and hated an activity they'd signed up for, I'd let them out of it as soon as they'd finished out whatever session we'd signed up and paid for - I have no desire to torture my kids, and they have always found quite a few things to be interested in all at the same time, so we haven't been caught with kids hanging out with nothing to do

I also try to look at the extracurriculars as just that - "extras". They are a chance for my kids to have fun, learn new things, be active. They *aren't* something that I see taking my kids to the Olympics, stardom, or following on to careers or college scholarships in and of themselves - but I do see them as having value in giving my kids a chance to be with other kids who share common interests and in helping my kids find a way to have active & interesting "fun" that might lead to hobbies they can continue into adulthood. So from that perspective, the actual "thing" they are doing doesn't matter so much (as long as it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone lol!)... as much as the simply "doing" it

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - We do guide our children to activities that help others (volunteerism etc). We still let them pick, but so far they've needed some help either from us or through school or church or scouts etc *finding* things that are meaningful in the community etc - simply because they are still on the low end of life experience

We also went for the arts and sports and made our kids learn to swim 200 metres, so they would be able to survive if they fell from a boat. For DSs I would recommend a team sport, because, where I live, if they can't play they get left out at school lunch time. DS14 started football 3 years after his peers and had to work hard to be good at it. Besides enjoying the sport, he saw it as a way of making friends. DS11 was too uncoordinated to be good, but he now knows the basics, and can play if he wishes.

By far the most valuable EC activity is Speech and Drama. This has provided them with a wide range of fun group activities and skills, it has given them confidence, extension in English, and a record of exam results that has provided opportunities in acting, public speaking and leadership and will eventually give them a qualification. They both admit they have gained more from this activity than any other.

I have to ask, rifle prodigy? A kid who can kill well?

Rifle prodigy: A person who can shoot a target more accurately than adults who have three or four times his experience.

It goes without saying that the target is a piece of paper or other inanimate object, not a person, as you are bewilderingly suggesting a sport shooter might be training to shoot.

YES-- shotgun is done with clay targets, for example. My DH and DD like to go shoot at a local range, which is near the DFW/DNR office and requires steel shot, so it's not crowded. They take a clay launcher with them and a box of clays.

My DH likes upland bird hunting, but my DD definitely has no interest in hunting. She does like target shooting, though.

We'd like for her to try rifle as well because that is something that she can continue in college at several of the institutions that she is looking at-- and at least with an air rifle in the backyard, she's got a pretty good natural skill set.

I fully intend t take my DD shooting now that she is responsible enough. I am determined to have her learn firearms safety and proficiency. Too many people these days have an phobia of firearms. I want my DD to be informed and arrive at her own conclusions in her own time.

DS is on the swim team year round. He also did fencing for a year but he said he got too tired doing it and dropped it this year. He's starting year 4 of private piano lessons and he's been doing private viola lessons for 3 months now; he did it last year in school as a group lesson. I'm hoping he can do piano for 5 years and then drop it in favor of viola.
He's in Cub scouts, year 5 with me as den leader! He says he wants to do Boy Scouts and become an Eagle Scout. That's all he has time for!
He is hearing impaired and has an IEP for that. We have thought music lessons were very important for him to do since he has that disability.

We only have a couple of rules and more guidelines. I have 4 so it is a tough balance to nurture their gifts, let them try different things to find what they like, and not overload.

The rules are they have to be committed enough that we don't have to hound them to practice and keep up with their stuff and once you start a season, you finish it. We did say no to a few things for various reasons, but the yes list is pretty long.


My DD10 is pretty settled in what she is doing. She does Piano (next door so easy), Ballet, and Softball.
My DD8 she homeschools and is also our truly gifted athlete, so it is a challenge to narrow things down. She does competitive gymnastics which is year round. She is also playing soccer and basketball (different seasons, so it works)
My twins DD/S 7 are not gifted and can't handle as much but my son plays Baseball and wants to play Basketball and my daughter after trying everything under the sun and deciding she doesn't like to sweat too much or be outside too long will join the acrobatics team. She was the tough one because she just doesn't have a passionate personality and has a hard time making decisions. So, I basically had to pick something for her that I thought she would like the most and where she wouldn't be in competition with her high achieving sisters. She does like to sing and this year the school will have a choir.

My DD10 is also teaching my son to play the piano (I won't pay for him because he would never practice everyday, but he does want to learn) MyDD8 will get music in her homeschool curriculum.

Dude,

Lol on the swimming. In this part of the country, swimming means intense year round swim team if you are 5 or older. That was on our "no" list. Grandparents both have pools and sister-in-laws are both swim instructors.

Swimming is like that here too- year round and intense. We just try to zen out about it. Our younger son went to the Junior Olympics this summer for the breaststroke, which was exciting!

I wouldn't have known that about the intensity of swimming around here. We have an above-ground pool, and we practically live in it during the summer, so that's where we're teaching DD. It's the only thing that makes Gulf Coast summers tolerable. We all list it as our least-favorite season.

Hyper-competitive swimming? For 5yos?? No thanks.

To date, the only registered activity DS has participated in is a group music class. This fall, we plan to add a general sports program that teaches children a variety of ball sports and a weekly swimming class. Sports are such a great equalizer, and I'd like him to get some familiarity with team based play. Three activities running for a total of 2 hours per week seems about right for his age.

Individual short music lessons are available starting at age 3 locally, which we'll consider if DS continues to be exuberant about his music class. My hope is that he will pick his instrument. At such a young age, I'm most eager to enroll DS in generalist programs that feel like play.


ITA. Target shooting is a favourite activity that I share with my Dad. I'd love to teach my son when he's mature enough, too, if he shows an interest.

Just curious, since someone mentioned the rifle for some schools their kid was looking at and I know water polo is a scholarship generator out west.

Is there a compiled list of extracurriculars that colleges like? will give scholarships or special attention to?

I'm guessing that there isn't one that is actually meaningfully true, Wren.


If there were, it would immediately be perverted by the prevailing "in at all costs" mentality surrounding the college admissions rat race, anyway, which would invalidate it within a year or two. That means that using such a list prepares students to be hypercompetitive for an admissions game that is about 10 years BEHIND when they'll actually apply, in most cases. You can't really get the time and training in time to make use of it in a timely fashion if you were to learn that "steer roping" was the Next Big Ticket. Because colleges are looking for kids that have 6-10 years of "commitment" to whatever it is.

From what I can tell (insider info and also parent reports from HS-into-college process), there are some offbeat things that play well at individual schools, and hitting those means that nobody else is going to much care...

I mean, "fencing" is one of those things, KWIM? A school that doesn't have even club athletics to support it isn't going to care any more about fencing than about llama agility on a student's EC list.

Bottom line is that it is probably not wise to choose EC's for most kids on the basis of what others will think of those things. It's too unpredictable and it changes too rapidly. It's like hitting the jackpot if you HAPPEN to be in the right place (10 years invested into {activity} and good skills} at the right time (just when Prestigious U. decides that they REALLY want kids with Unicycle Expertise).

You know that the many high schools in the northeast got into fencing because it was one of those things. I know a kid who got into Harvard about 4 years ago from NJ because she was a fencer. And my dog walking buddies who were going through college admission this year mentioned their top private schools were pushing the fencing.
So the admissions people at those privates must be on top of it.
Extended family member, who did undergrad at Princeton (played football there) then did MBA at Harvard was heavily invested in getting his oldest into Princeton. The wrestling coach told him that you can be off 1 standard deviation in the scores if you have the activity they want. Girls hockey or whatever.
Don't the schools have lists of all competitive teams? whether it is dance or fencing, they would look for that.

Well, HK, that list looks pretty darned impressive to me! If that's not enough to look good on a college application, then my kids are destined for community college. Which is where I went, for the same reason, I suppose. But as long as they're doing what they're interested in, I don't care.

DD7 is in her second year of dance, which she hadn't overtly expressed an interest in but I signed her up for anyway last year because she is such a "dancy" thing. Last year, she didn't hate it but I didn't really think she loved it either, until we got the video back from the recital. Since then, she has been obsessed with watching it every day and practicing everybody's dance routines, and couldn't wait to start again this year. So I guess I chose it for her, based on her interests, and now she chooses it herself.

DS10 just started cross-country, about the same way. He really seemed to like the little bit of track that they got in 4th and 5th grade, for the all-schools track meet at the end of the year, and he's built for either running or wrestling, not much else, so I kind of kept at him about going out for track this year. Like his sister, he didn't seem to hate the idea, but I wasn't sure he loved it either, but he was into the idea enough to sign up when school started, and he seems to be thriving on it.

I intend to push him into knowledge bowl the same way, and expect the same results. I don't think my kids have any burning passions, but I didn't either -- the problem is, my parents never pushed me into anything and I think they probably should have. We don't have the money to do every activity in the book, and I don't have the time for it, either, but I do intend to make sure they do a few things.

I would like to have them do target shooting, but DS's Asperger's difficulties manifest in such a way that I am a little afraid of teaching him to shoot. Maybe DD when she's a little bit older.

Our DD's haven't had a choice about doing or not doing EC's yet. They have to try it and know we expect them to see it through to the end whether they end up liking whatever it is or not. We will give them options when they are older and can make more wise, informed decisions on what they want to do.

Our area has recreational sports and they will continue to play soccer, basketball, volleyball, softball, and do summer swim team. We have also done trampoline and tumbling/dance. These were both a bit on the expensive side and less convenient to get the girls to, so they just sort of faded out of our schedule. We tried jujitsu and only lasted one session. The girls liked it until the instructor started teaching painful moves where you twist your opponent's wrist back until they say "yame" and give up. We were okay with not continuing jujitsu because as we sat through the classes we could see it written all over their faces - they were not having fun anymore and were dreading sparring time. Our younger DD even started to have anxiety about going and you could tell she was holding back tears when another kid would do the wrist-twist move.

DD9 tried out for a children's musical when she was about 6-7 years old and didn't get a part because she wouldn't speak up and play up the little things they asked them to do. DD later said she wasn't comfortable around all the other kids she didn't know. She was very upset when she didn't get a part, and vowed to never try again. We told her she may change her mind and she couldn't just give up after one poor experience. DD7's turn came earlier this summer. She is the one always singing and dancing around the house, so we thought she would be excited to try out. We were wrong, she didn't want to. I sort of told her she had to try, okay, I really told her she didn't have an option and she was going to do it because I thought she would really like it. She ended up having a great time, did a wonderful job, and wants to do it again next year. She later thanked me and told me I was right. I know!!! LOL! She now lists acting as one of her hobbies - how funny is that!?!

We are getting ready to start our 2nd year of piano. It isn't their favorite thing to do, but we feel being able to read music and play an instrument is important. I'm sure they will thank us later when they are in the junior/senior high band and get to go on trips to play at interesting events.

We are also active in 4-H. This out of all the activities the girls are in, might benefit them the most in the long run. It teaches them so many things and has so many options for us to try and learn about.

My kids' only exposure to this has been (and will be) in the context of Boy Scouting. The range masters are really, really careful about safety on the range and safety training about guns in general.

Because we live in a place where people do own guns, I felt it was important to have that experience of knowing what to do when they encounter one, even though I don't particularly want to encourage it as an enthusiasm.

DeeDee

I disagree. I'm fairly confident that Harvard will not drop rowing (for example) and therefore the recruitment of rowers in the forseeable future. Note the "half a century" in the article below. Whether one should take up rowing for this reason is a different question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/sports/harry-parker-dies-at-77-guiding-hand-in-rowing.html
Harry Parker Dies at 77; Guiding Hand in Rowing
By BRUCE WEBER
Published: June 27, 2013
Harry Parker, who coached Harvard rowers with unrivaled success for more than half a century and coached both men’s and women’s Olympic medal-winning crews, died on Tuesday in Boston. He was 77.

****************************************************

One way to guess which ECs can be developed in high school for the sake of college applications is to look at what the elite prep schools offer. Is it a coincidence that the sports page of Phillips Exeter http://www.exeter.edu/athletics/185.aspx prominently features rowing?

Yes! Yes! Target shooting! We are looking into this for DD9 and DD7. They want to do both gun and bow. DH is a big bow hunter (for deer) and also dabbles in some bird hunting, so this is something the girls can bond with him on. There are some clubs around our area that have some scheduled competitions. The girls are more into just doing it for fun, but DD9 has a real talent with a gun, so we may try to see where that will take her.

I enjoy just the target-type gun and bow shooting, but DH always asks me if I want to get up in a tree stand and try getting a deer. I hear it can be very relaxing, just sitting in nature, waiting on the perfect opportunity, but I would probably want to bring a book with me and I'd be thinking about all the things I could be getting done.

We did recently learn how important it is to determine which eye is your dominate eye when it comes to shooting. DD7 couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when she first started shooting. We just let her do what felt comfortable to her, and she held the gun right-handed. As soon as we figured out she was left eye dominate and had her switch to a left handed hold, she improved tremendously.

If you don't already know about this it is really easy to figure out -

Bostonian, my apologies for not being clearer-- but-- OF COURSE there are "elite" sports such as sailing, crew, fencing, rugby, and lacrosse. Of course. But those are quite common at this point, which rather defeats the purpose of choosing one of those if your child turns out to have rather average ability in those domains.

Different matter, of course, if Susie turns out to be a killer rugby player, but that is also a matter of passion and genetic good fortune as much as anything else.

That's why I said that really, pick something that your kids show both interest and aptitude in, and stick with it. If they are passionate about it and good at it, that's probably a better thing in the larger picture anyway, and it COULD be helpful come college time.

My DD comes across as a bit of a dilettente on paper, I fear-- she's tried TOO MANY different things. I would never say this to her, but she is starting to look like a total MarySue.

From a review of David Epstein’s new book "The Sports Gene: Inside the Science of Extraordinary Athletic Performance":

http://takimag.com/article/white_men_cant_reach_steve_sailer#axzz2dIZpMPc4
White Men Can’t Reach
by Steve Sailer
Taki's Magazine
August 28, 2013


I think the study is

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21401722
Scand J Med Sci Sports. 2011 Dec;21(6):e282-90. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0838.2010.01280.x. Epub 2011 Mar 15.
Late specialization: the key to success in centimeters, grams, or seconds (cgs) sports.
Moesch K, Elbe AM, Hauge ML, Wikman JM.
Source
Department of Exercise and Sport Sciences, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, Denmark. Karin.Moesch@psychology.lu.se
Abstract
A controversial question within elite sports is whether young athletes need to specialize early, as suggested by Ericsson et al., or if it is more beneficial to follow the path of early diversification proposed by Côté et al., which includes sampling different sport experiences during childhood and specializing later on during adolescence. Based on a Danish sample of 148 elite and 95 near-elite athletes from cgs sports (sports measured in centimeters, grams, or seconds), the present study investigates group differences concerning accumulated practice hours during the early stages of the career, involvement in other sports, career development, as well as determining whether or not these variables predict membership in the elite group. The results clearly reveal that elite athletes specialized at a later age and trained less in childhood. However, elite athletes were shown to intensify their training regime during late adolescence more than their near-elite peers. The involvement in other sports neither differs between the groups nor predicts success. It can be concluded that factors related to the organization of practice during the mid-teens seem to be crucial for international success within cgs sports. Future research should adopt a longitudinal design with means of drawing causal inferences.
© 2011 John Wiley & Sons A/S.

Yep. I was somewhere around 10-12 when my stepdad took us out to the range with his .22 rifle, and for safety's sake he insisted on holding it, but let us aim and fire. As the only left-dominant shooter in the bunch (and right-handed to boot, so nobody would ever suspect), I was laughably atrocious at it... though I did come ever so close to the target on the far right when I aimed at the one on the far left.

Another point is that if your child is sailing or rowing, you're unlikely to need a scholarship in the first place.

But more likely than the average parent to seriously desire that your child to get into Harvard.

Agreed, especially if the child is an unwilling or reluctant participant. Harvard is the hub of many helicopter flight plans.

I know a girl, now at Harvard Law, who got into Harvard undergrad without the rowing but started when she was there. They obviously need talent so if you can find a rowing club, which not expensive comparatively to gymnastics or the worst, figure skating. Figure skating competitively for a year costs you 2 years of private school in NYC.

Bostonian, nice article from the Danes but how many medals have the Danes gotten in the Olympics in the last 50 years?

Per head of population, Denmark outperforms the USA in the medal tables by a factor of several, though I haven't bothered to calculate it for the last 50 years specifically. What's your point?

Not necessarily - but my point of view might be skewed by the part of the US I grew up in and live in as an adult. Where I have lived, sailing isn't a competitive sport that is practiced by wealthy people who own yachts, it's a sport that can be enjoyed by anyone who has access to water and a sunfish type craft. There aren't leagues for young sailors to participate in or anything, but it's a very enjoyable family sport that people don't have to be wealthy to enjoy.

polarbear

You are right Collinsmum about the percentage of medals won per population, the Danes get medals for team sports like basketball and volleyball, not individual excellence which was the point.
Although Danes have done well with sailing, rowing and badminton also. Bostonian's article suggests that early training did not make you an expert. We were talking about individual excellence enough to get into IVY's.

Is badminton something that gets you into the top tier schools?

Right hand dominant, left eye dominant is a tough combination at first. Ask me how I know.

I'll bite - how do you know?!? LOL!

So you won't be writing any books about her anytime soon?

I wouldn't even if I thought she warranted one. If she ever gets a biography in print, I won't be the driving force.

Let me just add, here, though... my daughter recently contemplated using I Speak Six Languages as an audition piece-- and I nixed the idea because listening to her sing that song made me cry because it was a little too close to home, YK? (Yeah... ouch... talk about the anthem for HG perfectionism. How many of our kids here ARE Marcy Park, hmm?)

When I first certified at our local range, I was *by far* the worst shot of the group. As in, for a given challenge, everyone else could have gone out for a leisurely meal, returned, and I'd still be plugging away.

Our first challenge to be licenced with pistols involved hitting 10 out of 10 22mm shots on a 6 inch target from 25 meters. The challenge took experienced shooters anywhere from 1 minute up to about 20 minutes.

It took me more than two hours to do it, the first hour in which I may have hit the target a cumulative handful of times. (Hooray persistence!) Granted, I'd never shot before, but it was still pretty terrible. Around 1 hour and 45 minutes into shooting, one of the instructors suggested a modified hold when he realized I was left eye dominant and right handed.

The running joke with the guys until I improved was that I was more accurate throwing the gun (an untested theory) than shooting. Ouch!

Hey, looks like I am right handed but left eye dominant. Maybe that's why I sucked to much at target shooting as a teen? Does it matter with pistols (one handed grip)? I can't remember which eye I used to close.

I naturally gravitated to my left eye for the shooting I do with a camera these days

The things you learn on the internets...


Speaking of weird, my 2E son is left hand dominant for small motor skills (eating, drawing, scissors writing, writing) but right hand dominant for gross motor (throwing balls). I spent some time arguing with him and sports coaches (speaking of EC activities -- "he is left handed!" "no, I don't want to throw with my left hand!") before an OT eval uncovered the pattern...

If it makes you feel any better, when I was in boot camp, we had a day in the shooting range, which was one of those indoor-types you see on police movies, with paper targets deployed and retrieved by a rope and pulley system. Like your exercise, the weapon was a .22 pistol. I finished my firing exercise, then got to watch others take their turns from the side. One guy got everyone's attention, because a quick glance showed that he was aiming up at at least a 30-degree angle, and his shots were causing sparks on the pulley, several feet above the target.

I don't think a modified grip can fix that.

I never had any particular issues with pistols, because when I hold it out properly, it feels natural and easy to adjust a right-handed grip to line up with my left eye. Rifles and shotguns are another story, since I have to use them in the off hand. It's particularly problematic in a standing position... the heavier the weapon, the louder my body tells me to "move it to the strong side, stupid!"

You just described my mom, who used her left for writing and scissors, her right for everything else, so it doesn't come across as weird to me. She described her own mom as ambidextrous, though Grandma disputes that.

Me, I'm a natural rightie in pretty much everything, yet for some reason I've always been able to manipulate my left hand in more intricate ways than my right. This is proving to be quite useful (note that I avoided the bad pun "handy," you're welcome) since I took up the guitar.

Thanks for the reassurance, Dude. You had me laughing imagining the poor guy.

Siasl, regarding handedness, I'm right handed for anything requiring one hand (writing, shooting, fencing, throwing, racquet sports...). Yet, for anything requiring two hands (golf, hockey, lacrosse, and baseball), I'm left dominant. I wonder if this is a general trend. Let me just consult with my dear friend, Mr. Google.

aquinas, do you think you're truly right-handed for the one-hand activities and sports? I wonder if perhaps you are right-handed at those things because when you were little you weren't showing a dominant hand preference and you were subtly encouraged to use your right hand for them - nothing forceful, it just happens in our society. I'm left-handed, and I grew up playing golf, baseball, etc right-handed - not because I would have naturally chosen to, but because for instance, in PE at school there were no left-handed mitts. The first times I played miniature golf (and later real golf) the people showing me how to play were all right-handed, so that's how they showed me to hold the golf club and so that's how I played. I also can't cut using left-handed scissors, but I'm not all that great at using right-handed scissors - I'm just very used to them because when I was in kindergarten and we had to use scissors, there was only one pair of left-handed scissors and about 4-5 left-handed kids, so not enough to go around. I suppose I'm just enough ambidextrous that it all worked out ok, but I was never great at any of the sports I played right-handed. Many years later, as an adult, one of my friends in a softball league wanted to know why I didn't bat left-handed. I thought I didn't bat left-handed because I "naturally" batted right-handed, but I tried batting left-handed for him just to show him I couldn't. I was only *half* correct about the "couldn't" do it - it was clumsy at first because I had no idea how to coordinate eye/hands/bat etc to come in contact with the ball when I was facing the opposite direction and holding the bat differently than I had for years. OTOH, when I finally *did* connect with the ball it went further than it had *ever* gone in all the years I'd played softball... and I realized... I really was better at batting left-handed - I'd just gotten into a habit early on in life that made me think I was meant to play sports right-handed. I found the same thing out with kicking the ball for soccer too once I tried it with my left foot.

Two of my kids are right-handed and left-eye dominant - and I wonder a lot about whether or not they are really right-handed. My dysgraphic ds is tough to know - not having a dominant left-or-right is part of being dyspraxic (which he is). He's always held silverware etc with his right hand and written with his right hand, but he tried writing with his left hand just for fun a few years ago and it looked much neater than with his right hand, even though he'd never tried it before. Take all of that with a grain of salt - he's dysgraphic and *none* of his handwriting is legible enough to rely on, so who knows. But my dd9 - who is not dysgraphic and has legible handwriting is also very athletic - and she does everything sport-related left-handed. She's left-eye dominant. I wonder a lot if she's truly right-handed for handwriting or she just started with the right hand because that's what she saw other people doing or because one of us put a pencil in her right hand.

Sorry for the ramble - I find the whole eye-dominant vs handedness issue interesting!

polarbear

Polarbear, that is really interesting. I'm right-handed (well, I'd say around 70%, anyway) for small-motor stuff, and left side dominant for large motor (again, probably 65-70%).

Gymnastics, soccer, etc-- all left. Bought righty golf clubs, though, so I use those as a righty, which seems to work fine. Softball-- I thought I was terrible as a kid-- until I tried it as a lefty in grad school. Turns out I'm not SO awful.

check, and check.

though i write with my right hand, i'm definitely left-bodied - i step left and swim left and deal cards left... but i distinctly remember an early teacher telling me i must choose a hand to write with and i wanted to know which was better (read: typical.) so interesting this is more common than i thought!

Yes to that.

I have a friend who learned to write by watching her older left-handed sister. She is 100% right-handed, and to this day she writes left-handed. She can write right handed very neatly, but those early years of training mean that writing left-handed remains quicker and less tiring for her.


Which is why I spent so much time arguing with DS's basketball coach back in K, because he was showing all the techniques right handed and I though this was driving my son's resistance to switching to the left hand.

But after one quarter of basketball in K, all other EC experience from preschool onward in sports with no hand work required, he still did over one SD better right handed on the ball throwing OT test in 2nd grade. So I am nearly 100% (there was that horrible PE coach in K-1st...) convinced the right vs. left is wired in and not patterned...


And then there is DD4, who can write, draw and eat with both hands, although she is starting to favor the left one. When writing and unless corrected she goes left to right with her right hand and right to left with her left hand. She often draws with a marker in each hand. It is cute now.

Polarbear, those are legitimate points! I often wonder about handedness myself and try switching hands occasionally, partly out of curiosity and partly for a challenge. I originally fenced left, for instance, but right felt more natural.

I tend to lead my lower body on the right side (e.g. flutter kick swimming freestyle, running, kicking) and I have a slight right-dominant strength advantage weightlifting, despite my best efforts to the contrary. Maybe I'm better described as mixed handed with right tendencies? My mother has the same tendencies.

DS showed strong lefty proclivities for a while and now seems ambidextrous. I try to demonstrate new activities with both sides to avoid the bias you mention.

SiaSL, I had a prof in college who was ambidextrous and did that with writing - he'd start on the left side of the board, write with his left hand until he got to the middle of the board, then switch to his right hand and write out to the end of the board on the right side. Then he'd walk back to the left side of the board and start all over again with his left hand. When it was time to erase he'd do the opposite - start on the right side, erase with his right hand until he got to the middle, then switch to the left.

His handwriting looked exactly the same whether using right or left hand. I always thought it was very cool!

polarbear