Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Newbie here. What's next?

I think you've gotten wonderful advice already - the only thing I'd add is that this is just the very start of the school year and your ds is in a new program (I think this is his first year in the GT program?). I'm also guessing that since it's first grade a lot of the *other* students in his class are in the GT program for the first time too. It's not unusual in any classroom for the first week or so of school to be spent with the teacher giving the class assignments simply to see where all the kids are at - so your ds may be getting work right now that is easy for him but that might not be what he'll be doing for the rest of the year.

I think that before seeking out further testing (simply for school purposes) I'd wait a few weeks, watch what work is done in school (not just homework), talk to your ds about what he is doing during the day, and also talk to the teacher about her plans for the class and differentiation etc. Then if you feel your ds needs more of a challenge, advocate for it. IQ testing can help, but otoh I've also found in our own experience that achievement testing and examples of work product and teachers' observations helped more than an IQ number.

There is one reason I would recommend testing though, if it is important to you - are you really curious about it? If you're wondering a lot and thinking that having a number would help you in deciding how to proceed, then I'd have him tested.

This is just another thought to toss out there for you - my understanding is that the CogAT is a "learned ability" test - which (just my understanding - I could be way off lol!) - is that it attempts to assess reasoning skills etc but is dependent on what knowledge a student has been exposed to and also assumes some "inside the box" type of logic/reasoning. An "IQ" test (WISC, WJ-III Cognitive, SB) is an "innate" ability test - ie, learned knowledge isn't going to give one child and advantage over another. My gut feeling from reading online and from knowing other parents in other cities over the years is that what makesup a "GT" classroom in one location may be very different from what is considered "GT" in another, depending on the criteria used for screening. It's possible that the level of work you're seeing may really be what it's going to be for the rest of the year because perhaps the criteria for getting into the program isn't as high or is different in a sideways-type-of-way than it might be in another GT school. So you can't just assume that being in a GT classroom is going to mean your ds' academic needs are met. Another early elementary phenomena that seemed to occur where I live is that there are *lots* of parents who think their children need "more" in school in those early years where there really isn't much challenging going on in most classrooms - so there are a lot of kids who can do more but who really aren't going to have the ability to support or need to do "way more". That's where I found it helpful to actually have IQ testing.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Good points! It is a very, very good idea to see what the plans are going forward. But I don't think it hurts to ask about the process, if you can't wait it out.

ETA: Also wise to remember that we're all complete strangers on the internet... none of us knows your particular situation and most of us respond based on our own experiences. There is tons of really useful information on this board, but the more experiences you read about, the more you're likely to get a good idea about all kinds of options, and you can pick and choose and tailor the advice to your situation.

So then, I'm curious your opinions of the CogAT. If it is testing "learned ability" does that mean that kids who do well on the CogAT will respond well in the type of learning that takes place in a school setting but may not necessarily be gifted? From what I can tell, this test certainly won't identify levels of giftedness. Further testing would be needed for that.

Part of the reason I wanted additional testing is because I'm curious. I was totally taken off guard by the scores on his MAP and CogAT. I knew he was bright, but I underestimated him for sure. Now, I'm thinking, "what else am I missing?"

Honestly, he does well at subject based material, but he's not off the charts on his reading and math levels. I think it's his ability to apply what he's learned in multiple areas quickly and before anyone has instructed him to do so. It's also the depth of the questions he asks once something new has been presented to him. It's almost like an intuitiveness that you can't quite put your finger on. I don't even know if that makes any sense.

I don't have a sense that DS is profoundly gifted but I also have a hunch that the CogAT may not be showing his full potential...which it seems it's not even created to do. Ugh...these tests are giving me a headache. LOL.

You guys have been incredibly helpful. Sorry for all of the questions.

There has been discussion on this forum about how good of a job the CogAt is at identifying gifted kids vs. bright high achievers. (I have followed it in particular b/c my dd6 seems like a kid who may not do so well on the CogAt despite my sense that she is highly gifted) Use the search feature to track it down. That said--what you have said makes sense, and I would encourage further testing. I was suprised by the WISC results, and made a decision for my dd to skip 6th grade as a result, which was clearly the right thing for her. Without the testing I would not have known just how much more she was capable of. FWIW, when dd12 took the CogAt, she did not score nearly as highly (still gifted) as she did on WISC, and her achievement has shown WISC seems more accurate.

Yes, as deacongirl says, you can find a lot of discussion re: Cogat here. I find that a google search of cogat and this site will get you better results than the search box here.

If you have money to spare, an IQ test with a psychologist who is familiar with GT kids can be very useful. We received a long and detailed report explaining what all the scores meant. This was helpful in getting a needed grade skip for our son, and also very useful just to understand what type of schooling might work best for our kiddo. (Think flexible.) It's nice to get a better idea of where exactly your child falls. It helps you to figure out if the MAP scores are right on or possibly lower than they could be due to things just not being taught, or even possibly a hidden disability.

My husband and I just got back from meeting with the teacher. I'm so disappointed. I kept telling myself that it was going to go well, that we were going to be a team and help DS advance in school, that it must be nice to have a bright kid who is so very eager to learn.

Our goal for the meeting was to just ask what he would be learning in the regular classroom. We referenced his test scores but didn't focus on that. As soon as we mentioned our observations from home, she became defensive and showed us all the opportunities he would have in her classroom.

Then she brought up his behavior problems. He wiggles in group time, is rowdy in the bathroom, etc. She said that his other teachers had also seen this behavior and she hoped it wouldn't interfere with the advanced "opportunities" that were available to him. She has never contacted me about these issues before and school has been in session for a month.

She mentioned that he chose not to do all the enrichment activities provided to him. The example she used was a weather map. He was to forecast the weather by coloring each state on a map, write out the forecast and then add symbols to the map. He didn't add the symbols.

Perhaps no one will read this, but I feel better for having written it.

Hi Niki,
I'm sorry your meeting didn't go well. I don't have any sage words of advice, but am right there with you, except we have a 6 year old daughter in first grade. We haven't had our meeting yet with the ELP teacher, principal and classroom teacher.

Seems like the teacher was reaching to find something negative. If his behavior is less than what she expects, then she should talk to you about it when it happens, not wait. Perhaps the weather map was boring to him. Some kids like a little more hands on sorts of enrichment. Do you have pullout for ELP, or is it in classroom?

Hang in there, PM me if you want. I'm right in the thick of it as well.

Good luck!

oh, Niki... my heart goes out to you (and Gardengirl09!) - your situation sounds so similar to what we went through with trying to talk to the Pre-K teachers last year with DD. we literally had two classroom teachers pretend that DD had no issues at all, and was exactly like all the other kids - in every possible way. well, except for all the things that simply couldn't be happening because they apparently weren't "developmentally possible."

as it turns out, they didn't actually have an entire class of kids who could blithely talk you through a double-lung transplant - but they did have a very good idea of how to shut down meaningful dialogue.

all the best - i'm sorry i don't have any great advice - our situation ended pretty badly with the school, and i really wish i could offer you something more useful than empathy. i spent most of last year just screaming inside the echo chamber of my own head - so please do vent away!

Thank you all for your encouragement. I think I was a bit naive going into the meeting.

Gardengirl, he's in a pullout program every day for 45 minutes. However, one of the things his classroom teacher highlighted today was that he wasn't taking advantage of all the opportunities there either. He hadn't finished a dictionary assignment where they were asked to look up words and copy their definitions. Seriously? Could they really be asking them to copy definitions? In his gifted class??

Yes, yes they can! Prior to DD9's being tested, she was evaluated by a gifted teacher for several weeks - not any type of formal evaluation, just how about we see if she looks and acts gifted while working with the gifted teacher type eval. That gifted teacher reported back to the principal that DD (7-8 yrs old at that time)didn't really get excited with what she was having her do and didn't just take off and go on her own, so she didn't think DD was at all gifted based on that. She also mentioned in some report, that we never saw, that there were times DD didn't even want to come work with her when she went to get her out of the classroom. Later when I asked DD about this, she told me she would show up when the class was having a party or watching a movie or doing something fun that she didn't want to miss out on, so she told her she didn't want to go. That part was never mentioned in this phantom report. DD also said the stuff she was having her do was totally boring, so again why would she want to go do more boring stuff.

My DD acted up in class due to boredom, like it sounds like your DS might be doing - can't blame them! DD skips problems, messes up simple assignments, and doesn't go above and beyond on anything unless she really wants to. Annoying repetition is like poison to her and enrichment is just more of the same stuff she already has shown she can do.

Getting our own personal testing done was the best thing we ever did because it helped us truly understand what we are working with. You are lucky you at least have the CogAT, but it sounds like that hasn't really helped any when it comes to the teacher. We went round and round with the teacher and the school counselor. It wasn't until we asked for a meeting with the teacher, counselor, former teacher (that understood our DD), and principal all together that we got anywhere. That may not help your situation, but it may not hurt to try. Our new gifted teacher (the phantom report writer retired) has been helpful in advocating some for us, so you may try to go that route too.

I read something somewhere and made sure to remember so I could use it if needed - These kids are not just gifted during their pull-outs, they are gifted every day and all day long. They need differentiation and accommodations in the regular class just as much as anything else. More often than not, enrichment is not differentiation or acceleration!