Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Rhodiola success

You might want to look at this information from the NYU Medical Center.

As for your own study, remember that any result would be purely anecdotal, and you can't really draw conclusions from a study of one in this kind of subjective situation.

Sorry I can't be more positive.

I am generally wary of herbals and supplements too... But it definitely wasn't placebo effect with my kid... People who had close contact with him for many hours a day every day and who had no idea I had started giving him the herb noticed a difference. Seriously, of all the therapies and such we have done - this was the only thing I could say that about. I am not sure about claims re "mental acuity" and such... he was just noticeably more cheerful, less fatigued, less rammy and less stressed. He also had no idea what he was taking - I just told him it was a vitamin. I breathed a deep sigh of relief!

Oh and I use New Chapter Garden of Life Rhodiola Force, 100 http://www.newchapter.com/force-of-the-whole/rhodiola-force-100 ; supposedly it is harvested from Siberia, etc. etc. I would not buy just any old brand or anything that comes from China. I give him one (100mg tablet) a half an hour before breakfast and one right when he gets in the car after school (half hour before snack).

Val, yes, of course I'm aware that one person doth not a study make.

I don't find that link particularly damning as far as mainstream med evaluations of supplements go. Honestly, it borders on chipper, barring the "this adaptogen concept is crap" bit, which, well, I can grant that. This study:


was not performed in the USSR or China--some Scandinavian country, I think? Frankly, given the less than impressive record of pharmaceuticals for depression and their potentially frightening side effects in kids...

I believe there were a few more studies on depression, but I could be wrong. I do intend to do some more research.

FWIW, there are no other herbal remedies in use in our household.

Sorry, I was making sense only in my own head. I was referring to the difficulty of determining whether the difference we are seeing is caused by the supplement, environmental changes (summer, no school, etc) or the actual placebo effect (she thinks the pill is "doing something" and/or so do we). So really, we'd also want to try her off of ALL pills, including placebo.


I've hunted around and find nothing indicating any dangers of toxicity. FWIW, the depression study is not from former Soviert bloc countries.

Re dosage, I said 500 mg/day but realized that is incorrect. It is a 250 mg capsule. Dosage recommendations seem to really be all over the place. She has not noticed any side effects at all, btu she is not sensitive that way.

Here's another article: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032710004234

It was done in Armenia, a former Soviet republic. Two of the authors were Swedish, but it was done in Armenia.

Two ideas:

I understand the frustration of wanting to help your child and feeling powerless. It sucks.

Evidence-based medicine can't always help or can be a painful route to (maybe) getting better (think cancer treatments here). This also sucks.

This situation can leave people looking for other treatments, even if they haven't been tested as objectively as possible. Unfortunately, many people who sell these treatments have a conflict of interest (they're making money from selling them). So they take advantage of people in numerous ways, including persuading (or simply paying) people to extol their virtues.

Yes, the drug companies have these problems, but the drug companies also have the FDA and other non-US regulatory bodies keeping tabs on them, and independent researchers checking up on them. No, the system isn't perfect, but it's WAY more scrutiny than the CAM practitioners get.

But the CAM crowd is nice. They have better bedside manners and are gentle and very optimistic. When the evidence-based crowd is negative about treatment options and also criticizes untested remedies, the evidence-based folks come across as being shrill and mean and unsympathetic. And the CAM practitioners come across as being picked on for only trying to help when the other crowd doesn't care (the opposite is usually true, IMO.)

Yes, Lorenzo's oil was a wonderful treatment created by people who were operating outside the mainstream. But their treatment was also tested eventually, and AFAIK, those people weren't trying to make a profit. And they were a very rare exception.

You asked if anyone could look at the studies and provide information. I found some information that I felt was relevant to helping you understand the envirnoment around this herb.


In this case, there isn't a lot of evidence showing that the herb has toxicities, but AFAIK, it also hasn't been tested in children (the study at Penn is in adults, as was the Armenian study). I may be overcautious, but I would be very careful about administering an untested compound to a child (anyone really) when it's deliberately being used to alter brain chemistry. This is because I don't know what it might do.

So, sorry if I'm coming acorss as a bummer. I'm not trying to be mean or pick on you or anything like that. I'm only trying to say "Drug unproven, caution warranted, here's why."

Ultramarina, I personally agree with this. After resarching it, I'd give my kid this herb rather than the drugs out there if I see a positive difference and based on the studies. I worry much less of the effects of this herb than I do the pharmaceuticals. I am more comfortable with it than using melatonin for him quite honestly, which I do give him during school season during the week. By the way, in terms of whether I 'really' see a difference when he uses it, I would liken it to the melatonin. People could say I only 'think' I see a difference in how easily he falls asleep when I give melatonin but we do see a huge difference when I give him melatonin and when I don't - it's really clear. Same with the rhodiola - it was that obvious. Interestingly, and another aside, I have noticed that in many countries the use of melatonin is much more restricted and much more caution is issued against kids using it than here in the States (in most of Europe I believe a 'prescription' is needed to obtain it? so I was told anyway; in contrast, here I have been encouraged by more than one doc to use it and my friends with children with ASD are also encouraged to use it and do use it for their kids). After working in pharmaceutical litigation for a number of years, I also do not buy into the mindset that our country is better at warning and protecting re drugs and supplements than other countries. I have worked on more than one case in which very dangerous pharmaceutical drugs were black-boxed and restricted in many other (what some may deem less-than)countries and side efffects were properly discussed and warned about and were covered up here and the FDA just dropped the ball. Anyway, just some rambling thoughts.... Even though I do use melatonin out of what I feel is necessity only during school weeks, I am not that comfortable with it. I am actually more comfortable giving him rhodiola than melatonin. In my opinion, I think it helps with fatigue and stress and I think the reason it helps with my son is because he is mentally and physically fatigued and stressed during school due to his 2e issues. Summer is more relaxed so we take a break from it then but will start it again in the fall when school starts. I think the studies look promising, the results I have had with it are good and there is no evidence that it is toxic/bad at all. Again, just my thoughts and experience.

Oh I also agree with Val's last post and appreciate the insight & thoughts!

You won't find me extolling CAM. I'm not particularly a fan. I personally take an array of mainstream meds, and my kids (not that one, currently) have been on and off them as well for a variety of things. You don't need to give a lecture on why CAM appeals yet can be risky, believe me. I have been down this road with friends who have pursued remedies for their children that were very expensive and, I thought, dangerous and utterly unproven.

This herb is on its way to being an evidence-based remedy. I personally think there is a middle ground and that it is foolish to completely ignore that possibility. I completely agree that there is a VAST amount of charlatanism out there. This one happens to look fairly promising. I understand the concern about possible toxicity, but research indicates no known or suspected safety risk. As for no research in children, can I tell you how many meds my children have been prescribed where there was "no research in children," "no established dosage for children" and the doctor just gave some standard off-label dose based on weight? That research is very rarely done. It's a problem, for sure, but does not indicate very much.