Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Woe is DD

I really like HK's advice here - I think I'm going to use it on my own kiddos

I also wonder - what's your best guesstimate re where your dd's ultimate passions in life fall - do you think she's destined for math/sciences, or is she more into other things? If she's not really that into math/science, and is having a tougher time with the word problems than with the calculations, I'd be tempted to leave her in the level of math she's at and not push it. I'd wonder just a tiny bit if part of the "boring" things she's encountering in her math classes are having to deal with the challenge of translating word problems. I'm probably a bit biased in this respect as a mathematician/scientist, but I'd take the difficulty with word problems as a caution that she's perhaps not fully ready for an acceleration and wouldn't see it as something to be quickly remediated in two weeks.

I'm really happy that the school was willing to listen to you! Good luck to your dd

polarbear

I seriously :heart: dimensional analysis. Most kids don't see the point in it when it is first introduced... because by that time, they already (mostly) have some facility in dealing with "word" (applied) problems successfully, and secondly because the problems quite simply aren't sufficiently complex as to require that particular tool.

On the other hand, I'm a big believer in training them early. Which is where Henrietta the Dinner-Party Diva (a sort of Avian Martha Stewart, if you will) and her cockroach appetizers came into things for my (then)8yo DD.

We also worked problems on the basis of determining the "proper" number of Sousaphones in a a band that intended a faithful rendition of "76 Trombones," assuming that there is such a thing.

Silly helps a lot when it comes to initially working "word" problems. They don't have to be boring. Or simple.

Another simple activity that uses fractions and conversion ratios (ultimately the basis of dimensional analysis) is cooking. Scale a recipe with a kid, and they learn an awful lot about working a word problem, and with a lot less angst than usual, particularly if the end products is... er... cookies.

"Uh oh. I don't think we HAVE that much oatmeal. That's probably a good thing, though, since I think we'd be pretty sick if we eat ate two dozen cookies. Do you think we could figure out a way to only make half that many?"

Yes, indeed! That would be me.

I, also, have a twitch about not understanding word problems -- they were like icing on the cake to me. The part you save for last because it's the most fun.

But then DS came along, and I discovered that a basic understanding of the world really helps. Or, more accurately, a lack of understanding of the world really hurts. He was having a dreadful time with one, a couple of years ago, about a relay race, and we went over and over it until finally the lightbulb came on and I realized that he didn't know how a relay race worked. Once I drew him a picture, explained that this person runs around, and their lap takes this much time, then the next person runs around, and their lap takes this much time but we also add that to the first person's time for the total, and so on, there was no problem!

I find it hard to believe that most people's trouble with word problems comes from a lack of world understanding, but for some of our quirky ones, it could, indeed!

I'm going off now to find out what dimensional analysis is....

It's really nothing fancy enough to deserve the fancy name... If you happen to know what type checking is, it's almost exactly that. (Not quite, but that would be OT!)

Right-- it's basically just conversion factors which are composed of equivalencies like "1 in = 2.54 cm" only written as convenient FRACTIONS in order to convert units and quantities all at once.

Basically,

.25 in X (2.54 cm/ 1 in) = ____ in (because a quantity which appears in both numerator and denominator is able to be canceled as it is always equal to "one" or some similar logic)

the same factor would be flipped the other side up (that is 1in/2.54 cm) if one were using it to convert centimeters to inches.

The real magic, of course, is when you use a long string of them-- which is what I did with the Henrietta-the-Chicken problem for my DD.

I am trying to get my son to work through Primary Math Challenge and Math Challenge by Edward Zaccaro but he is busy reading books this summer.

Out of town, so replying by tablet, so no quotes.

Yes, "can't do word problems" is an enormous red flag to us, too - to the extent that we'd rather she not accelerate without a real improvement. A year of time will fix it if it's a developmental issue, but I'm not sure it's developmental. (You might remember she had an issue with "can't organize her writing, or summarize written material," where I was pretty sure she was behind agemates, not just grademates.)

My concern is that school isn't going to fix it if it's not developmental. She thinks she understands, so ignores the teacher's explanations. She follows patterns and compensates well enough to get good grades without using much effort or attention. And then when the task is complex enough (or lacking in context, like this testing, but no other school stuff), she has no idea where to begin, so takes a random guess.

I think what she needs is:
- to acknowledge that she has a deficit needing remediation (which she's previously been totally closed to)
- basic decoding skills: is means equals, of means times, into means divide, that kind of thing
- willingness to check for reasonableness until she's consistently setting the problems up right
- willingness to slow down and read carefully, rather than skimming and guessing

We don't have good resources for practice problems, so are open to suggestions. I do not think that her future career path is in math (I'd guess humanities, but the quantitative end of the humanities) - but she's currently interested in math-heavy careers. She's better at math than I was at the same age/grade, and most people think of me as being pretty good at math, but I'm the person good at using formulas without any particular grasp of what's behind the formula.

We're open to math acceleration because it has some hope of challenging her in school with her as a cooperative participant - her life experience is insufficient to speed ahead in literature, history isn't amenable to acceleration (and she's uninterested in heavier workload beyond reading interesting books), and she's disliked science as taught in elementary. We hope that orchestra will keep her challenged, to, but that will be new this coming year. (Basically, we're accelerating a relative weakness for lack of a way to meaningfully accelerate a relative strength. That's true for both math and music - she looks strong because she's smart, not because she's talented. And she's happy, because she gets to work, not just coast.)

People speak well of the Singapore Challenging Word Problems, but I guess online is more useful at this stage. Googling
word problems 6th grade
gives enough to keep you going, probably, but I might just make them up.

Actually, getting *her* to try making some up might be as helpful as anything. Let her see it from the other side... I bet that'd be more useful than mechanical decoding, actually. Get her writing some (eg, give her a list of sums and have her wrap each one up in a wp) and then discuss what words turn up corresponding to the operations in her versions.

ETA Even better, have her write some for you, then you do them in front of her. Discuss any ambiguities, edit the wording to remove them...

Oh, wow, that's an awesome idea. Thanks!