Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Is a year or two really that big a deal?

Hi everyone! I've been lurking, and finally decided to join in. I'm a former teacher, and mom to 2 homeschooling boys.

I thought I'd put forth a question that's been puzzling me for a long time. I know there's endless angst from parents and teachers about grade skipping, subject acceleration-- anything that puts a child in a group that's not of age-peers (and I've done some angsting myself).

I have also seen parents and teachers about to burst at the seams with pride about kids who are "Only in 1st grade, and reading at a 2nd grade level!"

My best friend lobbied to get his son into the "gifted" program when he just missed the cutoff. As explained to me, the gifted class is accelerated over the regular class by 3 months. My thought was, "Why bother?!"

Is it really that strange for a kid to be working a year or two above (or below) age peers, or to socialize mainly with others who are not near their age?

Are we that cookie-cutter a species that learning an "8 year old skill" at 6 is so noteworthy? Who decides what academic norms are in the first place?

I await your wisdom.

I think you're preaching to the choir here!

I agree, there is huge variation in development from one kid to another and even in the development of different skills by a given child.

But the way the schools are set up you would think that kids are clones! I don't think anyone is well-served by our current educational system. We have the means/technology/understanding/etc. to start designing individualized educational plans for each kid. That's what we should be aiming for.

Hi and welcome Luciente,

I agree with you that workikng a year or two above age peers in reading or doing math is not a big deal.

However, at least in my case, the gap keeps getting larger as my dd grows older. She is currently working on 6th grade math (she just turned 8 last month). She learns at a faster rate and unless her curriculum is individualized she would have to be constantly waiting for the rest of the class to finish.

She didn't start school until she was 6 1/2, so she has finished the math curriculum for grades 1-6 in 2 years. She is not "hothoused" or "pushed" She is simply able to grasp concepts quickly. I don't really care for bragging rights, I was just concerned that she would learn to just cruise thru school without any effort needed. I simply support the idea of teaching children "what they are ready to learn when they are ready to learn it" regardless of age. This is actually her school's philosophy.

An important point to consider is that some kids work one grade above level because that is their actual challenge level while others are stuck at or slightly above grade level because that is the extent the schools will allow despite the fact that the student could progress much, much faster based on innate ability.

The lock-step issue causes much more angst for kids who are capable of completing 3 or more grades per year, but instead, are forced to spiral with the rest of the class year after excruciating year.

Luciente,

Spoken like a true home schooling former teacher! I like the way you think, and welcome!
Actually, I've been very surprised by how many teachers choose to homeschool, so telling in my opinion.
I have a pg daughter who is not skipped and has individualized curriculum (with 4 others) and loves school.
I have an HG(+?) 5 year old who I've just been told her FSIQ 140 is not correct as she did not take the test seriously and was fooling around the whole time. School is not working so well for her.
We are leaning towards partial homeschooling for next year as she loves her friends, playground, gym and music.
Actually, as we get closer and closer to taking the plunge, I've started to feel strangely happy and relieved!

Neato

I really think there's power in having another option available to you, even if you don't take it. Just knowing that you're not entirely at someone else's mercy for the education of your not-easy child helps!

Incogneato: Totally OT but I read "pg" as pregnant daughter. WHen I see PG, I think profoundly gifted, but after being on pregnancy boards I see pg as pregnant! ROFL!

Delbows and Cathy,
Good points! Kids are expected to do the same thing, regardless of ability. My DD has been in a full inclusion class this year, and it has really stifled her growth. She reads 3 years above grade level, but there's very little in-class reading instruction (other than intervention for the struggling readers), and she gets very little guidance in picking out AR books on her level (her teacher doesn't have many high level ones). The teacher does send DD to the math coach for enrichment, which is her favorite part of school right now. Thank goodness she only has 10 school days left!

Our school system is very quick to point out the percentages of kids who are "above the benchmark" on DIBLES or "above grade level" on AR. The so-called "benchmark" for DIBLES is only the 40th percentile, so what's the big deal? So many parents are uninformed, and they take these meaningless stats as an indication that the school is doing great things. It's sad.

The word "angst" sums up DD9's entire school year this year. You are so right about this.

LOL!

IL has really jumped on the low benchmarks bandwagon in order to circumvent the intent of NCLB (which I agree is flawed).

Many parents and taxpayers don�t realize the difference between �93% of Xgraders meet or exceed the state proficiency benchmark� and �our Xgraders fell at the 93rd percentile on nationally normed test�.

For those who do understand the difference, they are often unaware that IL benchmarks are near rock bottom in comparison to other states. It may finally sink in too late when the same group tests dead average for the ACT in high school.

I'm glad your dd has math enrichment to look forward to each day. What are your plans for her next year?

Well, we really wish we could send her back to private school, but it's just not an option. DD's current teacher is going to request a 4th grade teacher that she knows will challenge her, and she's also going to insist that she not be in another inclusion class. DH and I are going to discuss this with the principal, too.

Fourth graders can do math team, and the coach is the same teacher that DD currently sees for enrichment. We're going to encourage DD to participate, and I think that will help somewhat. We're also looking into more afterschooling activities for her. She's interested in guitar lessons. The magnet school where I teach has a creative writing camp that she'll be eligible to attend starting next summer. In the meantime, we're going to try to "work with" the system to get her what she needs.

The math team beginning in 4th grade and the writing camp sound great! I have found that they older my kids get, the more summer opportunities there are for them.

Have you looked into summer programs (for this year) at your local private schools? Most private schools around here offer non-remedial summer academics to any interested and qualified student, although most do begin at 6th grade and up.

Some gifted programs are not 'allowed' to acclete over the regular class at all! Some school believe that enrichment is the only acceptable thing to do with 'pull out gifted program.'

People seems to surround themselves with friends and family members who are more or less similar to themselves. So you may know tons of folks who could move academically at one, two or three years ahead of the school standards. But schools deal with large groups of kids. In these large groups, most kids are learning near their readiness level. Most gifted kids are well served by the 'only 3 months accelerated' program.

My beef is when the school go from thinking that programs meet the needs of the whole gifted population in stead of just a majority, and blame the child for being 'off-task' or 'class clown' even 'After all the special treatment we have given you!'

Homeschooling really takes the pressure off in a lot of ways, doesn't it?

Hope this helps,
Grinity

[quote=Grinity Most gifted kids are well served by the 'only 3 months accelerated' program. [/quote]

I understand your point Grinity, but I think this may be more or less true depending on where the curriculum baseline falls.

Yes that appears to be our gifted program. It focuses on developing critical thinking skills, brainstorming, etc and an independent research project but nothing is done for the kid in the classroom the rest of the week. It's one hour/week pullout.

I'm leaning more towards HSing everyday. I think I'll give it a trial period this summer and decide then. sigh...

It's similar here. There are lots of camps but not much else for younger kids. DD has expressed interest in doing some math at home this summer, and she's already picked out a lot of books to read. We're members of two museums, so we'll go there some, too.

[quote=Grinity
People seems to surround themselves with friends and family members who are more or less similar to themselves. So you may know tons of folks who could move academically at one, two or three years ahead of the school standards. But schools deal with large groups of kids. In these large groups, most kids are learning near their readiness level. Most gifted kids are well served by the 'only 3 months accelerated' program.

My beef is when the school go from thinking that programs meet the needs of the whole gifted population in stead of just a majority, and blame the child for being 'off-task' or 'class clown' even 'After all the special treatment we have given you!'

Homeschooling really takes the pressure off in a lot of ways, doesn't it?

Hope this helps,
Grinity [/quote]

If I found someone particularly similar to me, I might run the other way. Actually, most of the like-minded people I "know" are online. IRL I walk a thin line and keep my mouth shut. To be tongue-in-cheek, I've learned that teachers don't like homeschooling talk, homeschoolers don't like teacher talk, and nobody likes gifted talk unless their child is more gifted than yours!

Even as a teacher at an "accelerated" (by one year) school, with excellent teachers, I ran into puzzling attitudes. I wasn't allowed to give the kids who were obviously in need of more challenge anything different (and yes, they did go off-task and clown around). I was allowed to differentiate in the other direction, giving struggling kids extra assistance, less challenging work, etc. The need for tailoring was the same, but the response was so different!

I loved teaching, but I'm glad I don't deal with schools as a teacher or a parent anymore. Homeschooling takes the pressure of in so many ways. I love it!

LOL, when I said 'more or less similar' I meant it! It is a funny paradox that people tend to surround ourselves with a sadly uniform bunch of folks, and still feel 'totally' isolated. So 'similar' is a relative term. For example, some extended families are chuck full of MG kids that would be happy learning around 1 year ahead or maybe two accross the board. Let a PG kid be born into the mix, and watch the fur fly! Take an MG kid from that extended group and put them into a school were the average IQ really is 100, and watch the MG kid flounder because they are underchallenged.

From this perspective I think that the label 'Gifted' is only really useful to discribe the difference between the expectaions of the situation (such as your school that didn't want differentiation for the top students) and the child's learning needs.

Welcome!
Grinity

Yes, my most like-minded friends are online as well. I have two friends who get it (both have gifted kids). I can see where you (Luciente) have a foot in 3 worlds - wait, that would mean you have 3 feet and may not be free to open up in either of them. Hugs.


That is so odd yet I've read it several times on various boards on how the gifted school was more inflexible than the PS. they did well by the MG kids but throw your HG+ kid in there, and they won't differentiate beyond what they do normally. You would think they would get it. It's such a myopic view of giftedness.

Luciente - how old are your boys? Did you mention why you decided to HS? Were their needs not being met or you just enjoy teaching them? I'm considering HSing my almost 8yr old next year. I also have a rising Ker who is similarly advanced as his brother was going into K ... I fear for him. My older son's K year was horrible for him. BUt the 5yr old is a different kid so you never know. I'm prepared to pull him out should things go badly.

Welcome to the board and while I've only been here a short time , I think you've found a place where you can talk about giftedness, HSing, and being teacher. I have several teacher friends and I find their insights intriguing.

Dazey

As a former teacher who's homeschooling an HG+ child and also has a DS we can't tell about GTness with yet, I'm certainly really happy to have you here, luciente!

Welcome!

Thanks for such a nice welcome, everyone!

I have a 3.5 year old, Kestrel, whom I assume is at least MG. His only experience with school thus far was a trial of Mother's Day Out last year. In the middle of each day, he would cry for me, and not let the teachers comfort him. He lasted a month! I later found out that he'd had a double ear infection the whole time.

Robin is 11, HG, and has a checkered educational history. He was accepted at 4.5 to the kindergarten at the accelerated school I mentioned before.

Ultimately, I decided to enroll him in their pre-k instead. We had recently moved to a new state, and he'd never done all-day school before. I worried that he'd be too stressed. He'd been the youngest in his preschool class, and I hoped that being one of the older kids in his new class would help him socially.

Rob did great socially in the pre-k. but learned very little. I taught kindy there, and the next year he was in my class! He was one of the kids I was not allowed to accomodate.

Again, he did well socially and learned too little. He got used to knowing all the answers and spending mere moments on his work.

The next year, we sent him to a Sudbury Valley Model school. To explain why that didn't go well would be a whole other novel.

The next year, when he was 7.5, Kestrel was born, and we began homeschooling! I wrote Rob a curriculum, but we slid towards unschooling pretty quickly. After viewing Rob's end of the year portfolio, our hs'ing coordinator bumped him up a grade! Easiest skip ever.

So this is our 4th year as homeschoolers. I had always thought hs'ing was a cool idea that we'd probably never do. Now I'm convinced it's the path for us.