Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Need some help with accomodations

My dd10 is having trouble with writing at school. She's always been an exceptionally bad speller and her writing is sloppy, but as she's gotten older, her writing quantity has declined too. She used to write several-page stories, but this year, she's not writing much. In the past, she wrote mostly about experiences she'd had or about her life, but now she has to write non-fiction, persuasive letters, and responses to what she's read.

She says that writing hurts her hand, it's distracting to write in the classroom, she can't think of what to write, and she can't spell the words she wants to use. She's been using a keyboard in the classroom, but she can't spell well enough to use the spell checker effectively and she doesn't type very fast.

I had her tested recently. Her FSIQ is 131, with VCI 142, PRI 119, WMI 107, and PSI 126. On the WIAT, her highest score is math problem solving (136) and her lowest are sentence composition and essay composition (both 78. The tester gave her a diagnosis of dyslexia. We have a family history of dyslexia & dysgraphia.

The school is willing to give her a 504 plan, but I don't even know what accomodations to ask for. I know she needs a keyboard, but she needs more than just that. A spelling checker isn't enough. The school says she doesn't need an IEP because she's not failing. I may have to hire a lawyer and fight that opinion, but I need a better handle on what kind of help she needs.

I need some opinions, experiences, whatever you've got. I'm at a loss of where to go next.

Thanks.

Keet, search back through Polarbear's posts. Polar is a fount of information about dysgraphia-- which sounds likely in your DD's case.

Did your tester even consider dysgraphia? It's weird that they missed it.

DeeDee

Thanks, I'll check Polar Bear's posts.

I don't think the tester missed dysgraphia. I think dyslexia is an umbrella that includes dysgraphia. I think you can have dysgraphia without dyslexia but not the other way around.

No, dyslexia and dysgraphia are separate disorders, although they occur together frequently. You can have dyslexia without dysgraphia, dysgraphia without dyslexia, or both.

The symptoms you describe do sound more like dysgraphia than dyslexia, but she could easily have both.

keet, I could have almost written your post (less the dyslexia diagnosis & my DD has a lower processing speed). Just a word of encouragement & to tell you to keep at the advocacy. It took us 4 years to get the right combination of testing and a 504 for "other disability", which we all know is dysgraphia but no one will use these words in an official diagnosis.

What was the key for us, not in a diagnosis, but in getting accommodations, was an OT evaluation with a 6th percentile on a Beery VMI. (Visual Perception was 91st percentile and Gross Motor was also a 91st percentile.) The OT gave us a list of accommodations to work from, which were helpful. What we have ended up with for our now 8th grader includes extended time, computer usage, teacher providing a copy of power point or other notes when presented to the class on computer, no orally administered tests with written response (other than spelling) without giving a hard copy of the questions (ran into this in geometry of all places), and not counting spelling on homework or 1st drafts.

Good luck!

You have to be failing to get an IEP?

Puffin, I don't know about the OP's state but in our state (CO) Dyslexia only qualifies for an IEP if the child is below state standards and is failing to make adequate progress towards them.

keet, I'm sorry - I just saw this post for the first time today. I don't have time to post info about accommodations at the moment, but will come back later and make some suggestions.


We have an IEP for our dysgraphic ds, and he's never been considered to be "failing" and he's always scored "proficient" on state testing in the area of his disability and "advanced" in every other subject - but he was in fact several grade levels behind in ability to generate written expression. They key to getting an IEP is two-fold: first, your child should need *individualized instruction* - this is different than needing accommodations. For a theoretical child who is dysgraphic but not in any other way challenged, an IEP usually isn't necessary because once they have the appropriate accommodations in place they will be able to show their knowledge and participate fully in whatever classroom they are in (regular, gifted, etc). If your child has fallen behind in some area of written expression due to dysgraphia, has an additional challenge impacting written expression, or needs instruction in an area that coincides with dysgraphia (spelling for instance), he/she will need extra instruction and usually the best way to guarantee that happens in school is through an IEP.

Second key to getting an IEP - when you're in a school district that isn't terribly disability-friendly or is stretched already with an overwhelming number of children needing services, the majority of the work and research and advocating typically falls on the parent and it takes a lot of work - note, that doesn't mean it can't be accomplished, just takes a lot of work as a parent.

I'll be back later with our experiences with accommodations

Best wishes,

polarbear

I need to come up with a list of accommodations for her 504 plan. DD wants a scribe, but I know the district will not allow that. I'm sure we can get a word processer and spell check; however, dd doesn't spell well enough to get close enough to the right word or to choose it. I've asked for an assistive tech evaluation, but nobody in the school system (including the 504 coordinator) seems to know what kinds of software asssistive tech has available. I'm hoping whoever does the evaluation knows what he's doing. We have tried the voice recognition software that is in Windows, but it's pretty frustrating for her.

I don't want to ask for more time to complete work because dd's teacher says she's always the first one done and she refuses to review her work. I think she needs reduced volume of work.

other things I think would be helpful:

-Do not count spelling off for spelling except on spelling tests.
-Copies of notes provided

Any other ideas?

I can help you with some of the accommodations we have for my DS7:

-For each major assessment (tests) and for local/district assessments: Schedule extended time (up to time and half), provide opportunities for breaks and movement, provide a scribe for multiple written sentences, assignments and tests and allow oral responses;

- allow additional time(up to time and half)to complete written work;

- provide access to spelling resources;

- adapt homework to allow for reduced writing expectations

- Allow oral response for math fact fluency assessments

And we have the scribing SDI. My advocate is big on the iPad. I have to admit it looks like some good stuff, like the 'audionote app' and the mental note app' look fabulous for people like our LOs. Here is a video on both

Good luck!

In your dd's evaluation, were there any tests beyond IQ/achievement to help determine why she was experience difficulties with handwriting? Most typically there would be a test of visual-motor integration (Beery is a common one), and a test of fine motor coordination. There are different causes for dysgraphia, and it is helpful to understand what's driving it when you are planning accommodations.


This makes me wonder if perhaps there's more of a challenge than dysgraphia/handwriting. It sounds very similar to my ds - he has a much easier time writing about factual information or life experiences he's had. Abstract, open-ended writing assignments are extremely tough for him - and that's not dysgraphia, it's related to an expressive language challenge. The thing that happened for our ds was that the expressive language challenge wasn't obvious until his dysgraphia was accommodated for, which happened when he was around 10 years old (his dysgraphia was diagnosed at 8). DS' expressive language disorder was diagnosed through an SLP eval, and he's been working with a speech therapist specifically on written expression for the past two years, and it's helped tremendously with his ability to put his thoughts into writing.


Just a quick question here - is it a laptop type keyboard that she can use at her desk or move around with her, or is it a computer that is stuck in one place? Does she have to share it? When is she allowed to use it (which types of assignments)? These are questions to work through when thinking about accommodations.


Has she tried using a word prediction program (CoWriter is one example)? They are sometimes easier to use for kids who have challenges with spelling, and they also help speed up typing rates significantly for some kids (including my ds).



This could be happening for several different reasons - one is lack of practice, which means you'll see it improve with time. Getting actual practice in is sometimes tough for children who don't have ideas to write about free-flowing out of their heads. Another reason could be trying to use a system such as touch-typing and not really having mastered it, but still trying. Sometimes it works just as well (if not better) to allow kids to come up with their own adaptive typing system - often kids will just use thumbs and first fingers to type and they can still type fast enough to be *fast* typing for schoolwork. My ds' class uses iPads (all students, not just ds), and quite a few of the kids like the split keyboard method for typing (similar to what folks do on their phones when texting).

Another reason typing isn't fast *could* be related to the cause of the dysgraphia, if it's fine-motor in origin. My ds' dysgraphia is caused by fine-motor challenges, and those same challenges impact his ability to type fast. My ds writes *much* faster when he uses voice dictation. His preferred method of voice dictation is Dragon on the iPad. I can go into more detail re why/etc if you're interested.


Have you formally requested for your dd to go through an IEP eligibility process? If you have (in writing) and the team denied it, have you requested an Independent Evaluation? Even if you ultimately don't receive and IEP for your dd, from what you've written I feel you are justified in making the requests, and also feel that you'll get good information that can help with planning (instruction and accommodation) whether or not it's through an IEP. Basically, you'll get info that will help you and your dd, whether or not the school helps. Two things that I'd request as part of the process (if your dd hasn't already had them) are the TOWL (Test of Written Language - a *very* widely used test in schools for diagnosing writing challenges) and an SLP evaluation. I'd also ask for testing to determine the type of dysgraphic challenges your dd is experiencing (visual vs fine-motor), and executive functioning testing.

I'm sorry, I need to go (again lol)... but I will come back with input on accommodations.

Best wishes,

polarbear

My advocate said that we could push for DS to work on typing during his school OT session. I plan on pushing for that next year, I think.

Accommodations -


Our ds doesn't have an accommodation for scribing - his neuropsych suggested he have a scribing accommodation when he was much younger (early elementary) but only as a bridge before he learned how to keyboard. The idea that you want to work toward when you put accommodations in place is that you aren't just putting in place work-a-rounds for now, but that you're putting a plan together that will build toward an ultimate goal of independence for your child.

We *do* scribe for ds still - at home, when he has a ton of writing to do for homework. When he was in 5th grade, he had the accommodation to allow us to scribe (handwritten or typing) for him at home on homework. Now that he's in middle school and has no expectations that he turn in anything in handwriting, when I scribe we just don't mention it.

Since your dd isn't proficient enough at typing yet (from what I understand) I'd suggest you use the following in place of scribing (if your district absolutely won't allow her to have scribing as an accommodation):

1) Keyboard all writing that requires output longer than ___. (Fill in with whatever you feel is appropriate for your dd - for our ds, it's something like "a few words" or "1-2 sentences".

2) Provide oral answers on fluency tests (these are things like timed math facts etc - basically any quick, timed test).

3) Provide extended time on writing assignments. (Details on this are somewhat student/situation dependent).

4) Allow student to turn in work in alternative form (audio recording, for instance). (This isn't something we've ever had as an official accommodation, but ds was allowed to do this in 4th/5th grade).


Be sure it's either a laptop or a device like a Neo etc that is similar to a laptop in that it's *portable*, and also be sure she is allowed to take it to and use it for any of her specials such as library, foreign language, health, music or PE if there is a writing assignment etc.

If it's a laptop, ask what software will be available on it, who can install software, who is liable for damage, will your dd be allowed to bring it home for homework etc. These are things to think through so you can make a decision - is it going to be more beneficial to use a school-supplied laptop/word processor, or would it be better for you to supply a laptop for your dd? There is no one-size-fits-all answer to that question, but for us, it was simply much better to bite the bullet and provide the laptop ourselves, due to a combo of huge liability we were going to be at risk to pay if damage occurred taking the laptop home for homework. In our situation, the school was also not willing to install all of the software ds needed to use, and the way they approached AT was to install and evaluate the usage of software one program at a time, and if they weren't convinced the program added value or was used often enough, they would have the option to remove it. That situation meant it would literally be 2-3 years before our ds would have the full suite of software recommended by the professionals we consulted, and also put the decision of whether or not it was "valuable" into the hands of the school personnel - most of whom in our school, didn't wnat to have to bother with a child using a laptop in class (not that it's a bother at all... but I digress!).

I would also suggest requesting an AT evaluation from the school, as well as researching as much as you can on your own. You have the expertise of knowing your child better than anyone, and that's why *you* need to do the research, but you also need the AT eval from the school to open access to school resources as well as learn what is actually available through the schools.


Note the mention of CoWriter and other word prediction software in my previous reply. Also look into "electronic dictionaries" - they were recommended for our ds, but he hasn't used one so I'm not as familiar with them. CoWriter made a huge difference for my ds prior to moving over to the iPad - fwiw, he likes the word prediction on the iPad as well as the method of correcting spelling on the iPad. The one thing I've noticed is good about word prediction on the iPad is that it seems to remember words you type frequently so it gets used to your own "dictionary" without you having to explicitly add words.


Of course they don't! That's why the school district has an AT department


Chances are they know at least some things, and chances are that there may be things they don't know about simply because they haven't heard about them yet - that was our experience. It helped me to do my own research, and it helped me to go ahead and just bite the bullet and buy some of what we needed for ds to use at home. We definitely worked with ds on AT ahead of his official AT eval at school, partly (in a big way) because his school was very slow in allowing him to have an AT eval. What we found through the eval was that (in our school district) the AT department was very good at basic, commonly used software solutions - and that wasn't a bad thing at all; they had some good insight for us and were very logical in their approach. OTOH, they didn't move fast enough to get everything ds needed in the time he needed it in, and they also hadn't thought through some of the things that were specific to ds as an individual, and that's where it became really important for me to do the AT research also and for me to have ds try things at home ahead of when he had access to them at school (some things that he uses were never offered through school). FWIW, we really liked ds' school's AT rep, and she actually really liked learning about some of the things we'd tried.

[quote[We have tried the voice recognition software that is in Windows, but it's pretty frustrating for her.[/quote]

DS had tried Dragon on the Mac prior to moving to an iPad. He actually really liked it when he tried it out, but he didn't have much success training it. It was suggested to us (later on) that the best way to train the software is to have your child read a book that he/she likes to the computer, and to not stop on every word that comes up wrong - just read straight through for several pages, then go back and make corrections. DS never did that because we got that advice about the same time he got his iPad and....

Dragon works so much *easier* on the iPad (and iPhones etc) - as long as you're working online, because it can access a database made up of thousands of different peoples voices and the voice recognition works much MUCH better than it does for a beginning user trying to train Dragon to recognize their own voice. So - ds would tell your dd to use Dragon on an iPad


It's ok to ask for an accommodation that your dd might not use all the time. The goal with accommodations is to have accommodations in place that you can predict she might need, and then they are there when she does need them. My ds has the extended time accommodation for tests, for instance, but in elementary school very few tests (other than fluency) were ever timed. Eventually he had standardized tests that were timed, and for most of those, he finishes very quickly - but - once he got into upper levels of math, his handwriting speed for working out problems really started to extend the amount of time solving math problems takes, so now he uses that extended time accommodation routinely for math tests. He also needs it for homework now - both because writing assignments have gotten much more complicated and lengthy and also because his math homework takes him 2-3 times longer than his teachers anticipate children should be spending on it - not because he doesn't understand the concepts, but because writing and copying etc are very slow for him.


Our ds doesn't have this as an official accommodation, but his teachers allow it when he needs it for math and language arts. Typically what he will do for math is every other problem or one of each type of problem (this is his teacher's suggestion). It works well for math because he's very quick to pick up math concepts and his teacher knows he knows the concepts so she's not concerned that he needs repetition. His language arts teacher sometimes lets ds turn in shorter-than-assigned written pieces due to his expressive language challenges. His LA teacher also sometimes limits the amount of time ds is supposed to spend on writing homework to prevent stress; ds is allowed to write for longer periods of time if he's not stressed and the ideas are flowing, but if he's stuck and can't think of what to write he's allowed to turn in however much he got out and is graded only on that.

Other accommodations:

DS isn't graded on spelling except on spelling tests

For testing (classroom and state/standardized), ds has extended time, quiet room to limit distractions, and can use a word processor for essay questions. I think he has a few more accommodations for testing but can't remember them at the moment!

Hope that helped a bit - I'm sure I've probably left something out!

polarbear