Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy is intervention here "helicoptering?" Or not?

Wasn't sure how to categorize this. It's kind of a 2e issue, and kind of an advocacy one, and KIND OF a high-school + asynchrony one.

Here's the scenario. (I'm going to request that people not QUOTE directly from this post, because some of it is quite identifying, and I'll edit those elements later, though they are relevant information in terms of advice.)

DD13 has applied to a regional science internship program for the summer. She is a VERY strong applicant (estimating among the top 5% among applicants), and her essays/transcripts/etc. all favor her. Odds probably about 70-80%. But these are SUPER-competitive. There are 5-10X as many applicants as positions.

The problem is that she was encouraged to add "personal touches" to her essay-- so she did, in the process noting her ability to creatively work around natural barriers/limitations by thinking outside the box. She mentioned that her drive for community service led her to start her own business (in order to profit-share with a local NPO) when she was just ten-- because her allergies and age made it nearly impossible to find other volunteer opportunities that were safe and open to her.

Fine, right?

Well, here's where it gets weird. She has NOT asked for any accommodations from the program, has not officially even TOLD them that she has a disability. She's just been selective about her 'interest' in various positions.

Someone from the program CALLED HER TO ASK ABOUT THAT ESSAY.

DD13, being somewhat wet behind the ears.... ANSWERED the questions asking for more specifics.

I'm well aware that the correct thing would have been to pleasantly stonewall with "It seems more appropriate to discuss this AFTER I'm selected for a position."


Okay. What do I do, here? The person she spoke with was fairly open about the fact that she was "making notes" for DD's application file. What those notes are labeled, and who SEES them... that I do not know. DD didn't understand that it might be relevant to ASK, either... (in which instance, I think that she is probably not at all "immature" relative to other high school or for that matter, college, students)

DD is 13. She is not yet independently managing her disability, but I don't want to undermine her, either. She felt GOOD about this phone conversation... and feeling confident about those decisions is a HUGE part of our transition plan for her to manage her disability on her own.

on the other hand, it's totally illegal that they asked in the first place, since SHE was not asking for accommodations of any kind, and it PROBABLY torpedoes any shot she has of being interviewed, if the mentors can "see" that she is a "problem" applicant.



I could call and let them know that this was not an okay thing to be doing from an ADA standpoint-- and I probably should in point of fact do just that. The question is one of timing.

If I call, do I label DD a "helicoptered" kid? Will THAT count against her??

If I call, do I let DD know why??


ACK!! She really wants one of these internships, and because of age/acceleration, she will only be eligible this one summer. She will be 14, which had already limited which ones she could apply for.

Oh-- I do have a reason for one of us to contact the program anyway, since we will be out of phone contact for a couple of weeks, and many mentors prefer to phone interview.

This has really been eating at me. Thoughts?

I'm confused.

It seems perfectly reasonable to call an applicant to talk; phone screens are standard practice in most hiring situations.

Did the person who called start asking questions about disabilities?

Right, the person was asking about specifics pertaining to my child's disabling condition... but this wasn't a "screening" call, it was a call specifically TO ask about that condition.

So if an applicant made the statement that:

my mobility limitations have at times forced me to be creative in approaching...

It still wouldn't be appropriate for someone in the program office to call up the applicant about that line in the essay and ask "so tell me what this means. Are you in a wheelchair? Can you work in a building without an elevator?"

So it's clearly illegal. I'm not sure that they KNOW that what they did is illegal, though-- because while mobility impairments are clearly in the category of "disability" to most people, hidden things like diabetes, seizure disorders, etc. really don't register as "disability" in the same way. KWIM?

I know that they didn't do this with any kind of nefarious intent. But it's still discriminatory.

Two things at work here, and they are partly at cross-purposes:

a) this isn't about "how dare you do this to MY KID" or anything-- for me, it's about the larger advocacy bit... More like "look, this isn't an inclusive practice, and you should be more mindful about it"

b) ADA exists to provide a more "level" playing field. Not just for those who know to work the system in that context. So life lesson or not, (no offense, MoN) I think that my kid and anyone else with a disability gets plenty of practice with "the rules are different for people like you" and at some point, all that additional such life lessons provide is a crushing pressure to submit to becoming defeatist and bitter.

If I wait to say something, my message on both parts a and b will be diluted by "digruntled helicopter parent is mad that her special snowflake got passed over."

BUT... if I mention it NOW, then I'm "that woman" and I've also undermined my DD's confidence in her own competence to act as her own advocate. The latter matters far more to me than the former, incidentally.

How did they even know about it if your DD didn't mention her disability in her application?

Ahhh-- the essay. Because she made a (fairly vague) statement.

my mobility limitations have at times forced me to be creative in approaching...

Much like the mobility example in my statement above. But I know from my own experience in higher ed that there are REALLY strict rules about what one can ask and what one can't.

I am confused too. How did they figure out she had a disability? If I am reading right, I don't think others would view allergies as a disability and protected under the ADA even though they are protected. And I am not sure people even view allergies as a disability.

I don't think they had negative intent here. I think that if you call them on it, it might make you look like a helicopter parent and "that woman" either before or after you find out about the internship. I think you would appear like "how dare you do this to my kid" no matter how you approach it.

Okay. I understand now.

I would NOT call them. I would write them a letter. But I'm not sure when I'd do it.

The thing is that the woman who called has put everyone into a very difficult situation. Maybe she was calling because they want to accept your DD and she was trying to find ways to accommodate her...but she should have avoided those questions until after the acceptance letter had been sent. D-oh!

If they reject your DD, it is reasonable to suspect that the rejection may be related to the disability. I would definitely write a pointed letter describing this woman's questions and her notes at that point.

Two possibilities:

1. Call a lawyer and ask for advice. You can usually get a free 30-minute consult. I'm not suggesting this because I think you should threaten to sue them. It's merely an exercise at gathering information.

2. Call them and ask. Be anonymous if you want. Be sure you talk to someone high up in their hierarchy.

Oh, I don't think that they had negative intent, either. But it wasn't an okay thing to have done.


Much along the lines of "Hey-- I couldn't help but notice your insulin pump when you dropped off your application the other day..."


Not all allergies do rise to the level of disabling. Agreed. But that didn't seem to be the nature of the conversation-- which would have been a different series of questions. That, I wouldn't have a problem with. That's "You mention a mobility challenge in your essay. Would it be okay with you if I note that you have a disability which impairs your mobility?" Their application process doesn't really include any means of telling them about a disability.

If it did, then that is completely above board, and there are clear rules about how that cannot be used as a disqualifying criterion for positions in which it isn't an issue. It's when it ISN'T openly acknowledged that it becomes a problem in selection criteria. But it needs to be noted as "this is disability-related information," or it can.

I think that at the very least, I need to find out WHAT got recorded, and who is privy to the information. DD's youth actually means that she isn't entirely able to waive her rights even if she wanted to. <>

HK, I think you may be suffering under a bit of a misapprehension about the law in this case. At least if your DD was an adult, it would not be illegal to ask questions about a disability, no matter how many times HR departments have told you that it is (and I'm sure they have). What is illegal is to base a hiring decision on the information. HR departments tell you (quite forcefully) not to ask because they don't want to be put in a position of having to show that "yes, we knew that, but we didn't use the information in rejecting her." Now, I am not 100% certain how her age plays into this with the decision to disclose the information. I can agree that it was inappropriate to call and ask her directly, but I think you've gone way too far down the "infer evil intent, or at least evil results" path. I would wait and see what they do. They may intentionally offer her an "ideal" internship that is fully compatible with her disability, because of the conversation. Or they may realize that they goofed and ignore the information. Or they may do just what you fear and reject her. But I don't think you can know which it will be nearly as well as you seem to think that you can.

If she doesn't get in, you can probably privately contact the woman who called you and search for information on what was asked and how it was used. (You already know that she asks questions when she shouldn't - maybe she'll answer them when she shouldn't, too!) You can talk to your DD then about why it was inappropriate to give the information when asked, instead of a pleasant put-off. If you'd like, I can go dig into my employment law notes and find some cases that might make interesting reading for her. But honestly, if you go in guns blazing now, I think that would be more likely to torpedo her chances of getting an internship than anything that has happened to date.

Yeah-- I definitely get that.

I'm still not sure that anyone associated IS clear on the fact that she's technically a QID.

So they may well base selection off of the information and not even understand that it SHOULD NOT be used that way.

The reason why I wonder if it is worth bringing up is that there is a central clearinghouse which acts as a go-between between applicants and those who will interview/hire. The go-between level is where the questions were coming from.

So there is still a chance (potentially-- not sure?) that the information has not yet gone to the hiring/interviewing personnel. If it does, then "disability" needs to be attached to that information, IMO. If it doesn't, then it's all fine either way.

Doesn't really sound like there is any good way of bringing it up, though. I'm with Val here-- that phone call really places everyone involved into an awkward situation.