Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Is this bullying?

Hi everyone! I'm having a dilemma because the misbehaver in question is my niece. If it were a friend of my daughter's, the friendship would be over. Please let me know your thoughts. DD is 7, with a 150+ on the WPPPSI test and possibly inattentive-type ADHD (or just plain underchallenged and bored). The problem is that she has a cousin the same age who comes & stays with us for a week at a time, along with my sis and her older daughter. Over the course of one day's time, both my husband and I heard the niece lie to DD several times. We intervened, told her lying is unacceptable in our house, etc. and yet it continues. If DD and niece are playing together (and niece thinks no one is around) and DD asks niece a question, niece will just look at DD and not answer. She'll do this 4, 5, 6 times until DD gets mad and cries. Also, if niece is looking at or reading something, she'll make all kinds of exclamations about it and then when DD says "May I see?", niece will hide whatever she's looking at so DD can't see it. When DD is doing her homework or reading a book, niece will constantly pester her. If I separate them, as soon as niece thinks I leave the room, she'll go right back over and pester. And so on. It all sounds so petty, and I've let it slide. These things happen every single time and have been happening for the past 4 years. My sis does nothing but excuse it, blame my daughter for being too sensitive, etc. It's almost like niece goes out of her way to make DD mad or sad. Where the gifted stuff comes in is because DD has a HUGE sense of justice, fairness and empathy. So when I ask her why she doesn't tell me when niece does X behavior, DD says that she's trying to help her cousin, and tell her not to do it, etc. DD has taken on full responsibility for her cousin's actions, and lets this all continue until she blows up in a crying fit, rather than come to me and ask for help. (Other times when she feels herself getting very upset, she'll come and ask me to help her belly breathe, etc. This person is the only person that DD seems to have no defenses with).
SORRY SO LONG!! but what I want to do is not allow niece to visit anymore, because she is so upsetting to DD. Do I have to let someone be in my house who lies and breaks our rules and freaks out DD just because that someone is a relative?? And do I have the "right" to think my sis is a weenie because she blames everything on my daughter, says I baby her, she's too sensitive, etc. I am only talking about incidents that my husband or I have directly witnessed, so it isn't a "she said, she said" situation.
Thanks for any thoughts on this. DD asked me if this is bullying and I said no but the pediatrician said it is, and it's particularly dangerous for DD because she wants to fix it, instead of removing herself from the situation.

PS DD goes to public school, is in Brownies, Sunday school, two dance classes, has regular playdates with 3-4 different friends, and no one has EVER complained about her behavior. Niece on the other hand has never been on a playdate, so when I try to talk to my mom about these lies & things, mom will say "but everyone at church (or school) thinks niece is so wonderful", like I don't know what the heck I'm talking about??!

Yes-- it IS dangerous for your DD.

It's relational aggression and the aggressor sounds highly manipulative and downright toxic, frankly.


If it were someone PHYSICALLY harming your DD, what would you be thinking?

Honestly, I think that your sis is enabling budding abuser of a kid. Unvarnished, but there it is.

Have you asked your DD what she would prefer? She may prefer to meet on neutral territory (local park/restaurant, etc) so that your family has a way to escape the behavior when it gets out of hand.


I don't know what your relationship is with your sibling, but perhaps it would help if your DH intervened here and told her that she MUST control her child's behavior while at your home-- or your hospitality isn't extended to the offender. She's ignoring your stated "house rules." Your sister, at least, is not confused-- she's disrespectful of you as adults and she's being pretty darned passive-aggressive about it. I can't quite understand actually being able to have them back over after listening to a family member TRASH the parenting/child of the host. I'd insist on an apology and genuine repentance first, but that is me.

Some of this may explain, actually, why we don't have a lot of close relationships with family-- we ARE willing to forgo toxic contact like this. Can't say that our way is for everyone, certainly, but it definitely communicates to our DD that she should NOT tolerate abusive conduct from others.

I totally get this! Last year we cut off contact following similar behavior but in our case niece is 5 years older and lives in another state so we only saw them a few times a year. This is the cousin closest in age to DD and the only other girl in the family. Niece has always "played" in a mean way with DD ever since she was a baby and we had to do a lot of damage control after every visit. I think we did it too well because DD developed a fantasy about the 2 of them being so close. They did call each other "favorite cousin" but as niece got older she treated DD more and more like a pest. On the last visit she locked DD out of MIL and FIL's house and would not let her in unless she figured out a "password". BIL and SIL both were allowed to enter with whatever word they used but niece never allowed DD's guess to be correct. SIL eventually double locked the door, leaving DD (who had just turned 7) locked outside in a strange place without telling us anything about what was going on. I found DD crying hysterically - it took about an hour to calm her down. Niece insisted "it was just a game" and refused to apologize. BIL and SIL apparently saw nothing wrong with the behavior. MIL tried to make excuses for niece "Oh she's not used to playing with younger kids..." FIL started to yell at DD for "making such a big deal" out of it. That was it. I told DH that I will not bring DD back there for another visit. He is more than welcome to visit his family any time. He is welcome to bring DD with him if he would like but I will not subject her to this sort of behavior again.

Would I allow someone who treats my child this way to continue to visit my home for a week at a time when her parent does not recognize anything wrong with the behavior or try to correct it? No way.

DD has never asked to visit her "favorite cousin" again. She occasionally comments if she sees a picture or a gift that niece gave her. "That was back when [niece] was nice to me." At one point I explained to her that no, niece was never really all that nice to her but now that she is older she was able to recognize it for herself. I'm not sure she understood but hopefully it helped her stop taking responsibility on herself for her cousin's behavior. I hope so anyway.

Good luck. Your responsibility is to your daughter. If your sister can't or won't teach her daughter how to treat people at least you can teach your daughter how to NOT allow people to treat her badly.

I agree with your pediatrician that it's most certainly bullying. And in your place, I'd immediately sit down with your DD7 and explain that, while I appreciate her efforts to try to help, that's an adult responsibility, and she's 7, so please don't.

And then I would have a conversation with the sister, where if she can't ensure her DD follows the rules of this house while she's guesting here, she can always stay somewhere else.

I know this can be hard where there are ties to family members and perceived responsibilities with that, but it helps to remember that your responsibility to your own DD is superior to that of a niece or sister.

I've had to end a really good friendship because of bullying behavior of his child towards my own, and the enabling behavior of the mom.

You two both made me feel SO MUCH better!! My sis didn't say DD was too sensitive or I was babying her until AFTER I told her we are DONE and DD is not allowed in our home anymore. Then the response was that niece is fine and normal, and DD is sensitive and a baby. That right there is a DEAL-BREAKER for me!! But I still have that stupid oldest child, adult child of an alcoholic tendency to want to FIX everything and have everyone be happy. When I told DD that her cousin would not be coming here any more and that when we are at grandparents' house (a few times a year) there would not be any sleepovers with cousins, and that I would do there what I do here, which is listen from the next room (on the baby monitor if necessary) and DD's reactions was "Good. I don't want to play with her anyway because she never lets me have fun." She is sad because "now who will help my cousins, Mommy?" and because she would like nothing better than to have them be best friends, but I am slowly teaching her that friends do not behave like this.

And y'all are right too, about my letting that garbage happen is teaching DD to "take it" at school or on the bus or other places.

I'm starting to feel a little better....

I agree with what others have written. Your daughter is your top priority here. I also suggest that you tell your sister (as gently as possible, but without hiding anything, either) that either the behavior changes or they find a new place to stay.

Personally, I suspect that the behavior won't change, especially if your sister is justifying it by saying that your child is too sensitive. I call this "blaming the victim" and adding insult to injury.

That said, I'm only offering an opinion based on a single message that you wrote. Do you know what's driving the behavior?

What is driving the behavior is that niece's older sister has just been diagnosed with NLD, her dad is ADHD-H with concussion syndrome on top of it, and my sis is and always has been a type-A she's never wrong about anything type of a person. She & hubby argue and pick at each other so much that no one in our family wants to be around them at all. The whole family is a complete disaster, and I feel so badly for them. DD adores the oldest, and when she is still getting blamed for everything, even things that I directly saw she didn't do and tell sis that, kid still gets blamed, it breaks DD's heart. The niece either has dad's ADHD or is trying to get negative attention, not sure which, but it makes sense that she'd be acting like this, the poor kid. I've been on lexapro for 5 yrs for PTSD and just tapered down off it and opened my eyes. The past 3 visits I've always been in my office (right across the hall) or been in my bedroom listening with the baby monitors, so I knew that DD needed to be watched & protected while she was playing with niece,and I would tell my sis about behavior I heard directly, but I didn't have the sense to put my foot down about it. THIS time it was in my face because DD finally snapped and jumped on niece and pulled her hair, which she has never so much as touched or pushed another kid. THAT showed me that there was a serious problem. And then when the lying incidents right in front of me & hubby happened, and even after I explained that we do not allow lying in this house, it still continued, and sis said it was "just teasing" or it wasn't niece's fault because that's how her older sis treats her, I hit the end of my patience. Told sis they were no longer allowed here and told her why, then got the response back that my daughter is too sensitive and I baby her..... That's the whole scenario.

Teasing.is.not.allowed.in.our.house. Would that be clear enough for your sister. Teasing is in most cases a underhand form of bullying - wind the person up until they are an emotional mess then claim you didn't mean it?

I would say, yes it's bullying, but I agree with trying not to cut the line off to your nieces. Something like not allowing them to stay at your house (hotel, anyone?)

We started staying at a hotel when visiting in-laws because of m-i-l antics. It was DH's idea, so that was nice.

There is more emotional garbage heaped upon nice kids and people in the name of "teasing" ("what's the matter - can't take a joke...?") and having the victim be portrayed as "too sensitive" "a baby" - and as OP pointed out, it's often given as an excuse when the bully is called out on their behavior.

My older sister was mean to me (and once I had to stay home from school because she scratched up my face so bad my mother was embarrassed to send me to school) and she was very rarely disciplined. I was always asked to put up with it and told "she's your sister, she really does love you " etc. What a bad, bad, bad message.

Thank all of you so much for your help! I showed these posts to DD7 so she could see how many people said that it is bullying, it is wrong, etc, and am now educating her about not attempting to "fix it". She likes to see things in writing, and the more opinions the better (I am an engineer and an attorney-think I rubbed off on her? haha)I am going to focus on her from now on, and let the rest of them worry about their own kids. We'll let the girls play together (supervised by Mr Baby Monitor!) and at the first sign of a problem, I will separate them. I promised DD7 that I would protect her from it, and apologized for letting it continue for 3-4 years. We are in a MUCH better place now.
I am SO GLAD that the pediatrician recommend the Davidson Gifted community. It's going to be a great resource for me!

I'm glad that your DD feels that you're stopping this because it is "not healthy" rather than blaming herself.

I'm also glad that you have a plan for ongoing monitoring of the two children.

I would very strongly encourage the OP to read Rosalind Wiseman on relational aggression with girls and how to teach them to handle it.

Sounds like a good start. Sometimes it's hard to see the situation objectively.

Strong second (?third) suggestion to read Rosalind Wiseman ("Queen Bees and Wannabees"). Her books, as well as "Odd Girl Out" by Rachel Simmons, are extremely helpful in opening one's eyes to the realities of "girlworld." Though these books do have chapters aimed at older girls and situations, there is a lot there that applies to all ages and they both have very useful practical suggestions and tips. They have been on my bedside table, literally, for years.

Yes-- my DD first read the Simmons book when she was about nine. She was so relieved to find out that all of the icky stuff that she'd been appalled by for years had a NAME: relational aggression.

Thanks for the great book suggestions. I will definitely get them and read them.

Just learned something new that strengthens my resolve. My daughter has a point-and-shoot camera that she uses to make videos nearly every day. I was downloading her videos from her camera card & it crossed my mind to ask her if she happened to have any videos of her cuz being mean to her. "Yes, I did, Mommy, but Aunt L* erased them." Me: "Oh really?" "Yes, she erased all three of them."

Wow. Can't believe she erased them. You may have a more complicated situation if your sister is acting like that.

I agreew with masterofnone.

Kids are not always nice to each other, but family relationships are long. Rather than getting caught up in outrage or suspicion, or frustration with your sister, I'd try to work with both kids together and be open about your desire to make things better. I would try using some techniques from How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. I think doing things like asking your DD if she had videos of her cousin being mean is setting her up to view this situation in an adversarial way. I'm not saying you should let her be a doormat. You should encourage her to come to you if she is being mistreated--but you could also encourage the kids to work things out themselves, with your assistance, using the active problem-solving techniques in the book. Obviously, some family situations are too toxic to stay in, but this doesn't sound like it's at that level to me at this point.

If we're making book recommendations, let me throw Little Girls Can Be Mean into the hat. It's similar to Rosalind Wiseman, but really aimed at younger girls, when they're not yet into the social aggression over boys. One of the things I like about it is that it has at least one example of a girl being outrageous, and then a couple of chapters later, it has another example of bad behavior. Then you learn that it was the exact same incident, seen from both sides. It's a good reminder that no matter how horribly they behave, they're doing it for a reason, and the reason is usually understandable if you think about it. And sometimes you only see one side and get a warped view of the whole problem.

Which is not to say that I think that your niece isn't being a brat. But I can certainly understand the desire to help her, too - she is family, after all.

I picked up all of the recommended books at the library, and am reading them now. I did start with "Little Girls Can Be Mean" and it's very interesting! My daughter was with me when we went to the library, and she was very happy that there were books like that out there to help us!

AS for working with both girls together, there's not much "working" you can do when you directly tell a child "do not lie" and she immediately proceeds to keep doing just that, right in front of me and my husband. When I tell my sister about it and she does nothing, I'm just not willing to deal with that.

DD has enough friends that we can use them to pick up the slack, and she can see her cousin the once or twice a year we make the journey. There will be no sleepovers, no unsupervised play, and no more staying at my house. People who don't follow our rules don't stay here, and I don't care if they are family or not. And that doesn't even get into the whole "yo-yo" friendship thing (the book NAILED that-it's definitely what we have here!).

To me the bottom line is if family actively HURTS my child, they aren't family. Just because DD's brain is getting slapped around instead of her physical body, I don't see the need to allow that.

I would say exactly the same in your place.

I'm sorry that your sister's negligence is creating this pain for your family. I think you're justified in withdrawing from the relationship until they make a sincere effort to correct your niece's behaviour.

If I were you, I would give your DD that label for the cousin's behavior, so she will know it in the future when she sees it. That will help her be less likely to be sucked into being the victim.

DeeDee

And of course we all want that perfect sibling/cousin relationship we've been lead to believe we should have.