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I need some advice. My son (11) has been taking piano lessons for six years. It's always been a struggle to get him to practice. However, the last 3 - 4 months have been really bad. I've about had it. I've tried all sorts of things, both to motivate him and to let it go and not get stressed about it. It's not working. It's expensive and I'm putting more work into it at this point than he is.

We agreed on Friday that he would practice at least 12 days out of the 16 days he has off school for break. If he did that, I'd continue lessons. He hasn't touched the piano since.

So, do I pull the plug? I hate to take him out becaue I think it is very good for him and it's a great skill and learning opportunity. Plus, he performs with groups and in individual contests. What I'd like to do is pull him out and then put him back in at a future date. He likes his current teacher but she has a waiting list so wouldn't be able to take him back in, say, three months. I don't know how long her list is.

What would you do? What would you consider before making this decision? What would be the criteria for starting lessons again? I think that if he doesn't meet our agreement, which looks unlikely at this point, I need to follow through by pulling him out.


Advice? Comments? Ideas?

I can understand why you want him to continue in piano after so many years and he's good at it. On the other hand, is it worth making both of you miserable over this? At some point, he will likely stop piano anyway since very few people become professional pianists.
Is it possible for him to start a new instrument and be in a student orchestra or band? He obviously can read music well, and this could be a new opportunity for him. You could have him pick the musical instrument.

Okay, this is some BTDT (still doing it) advice for you, which may or may not apply, but I suspect that at least some of the underpinnings DO apply, given some of what you've stated.

My DD13 has been taking lessons for seven years. She, too, goes through periods where even getting her to practice for twenty minutes a day requires Herculean effort on OUR part. It's at times been misery. We've used a kitchen timer, the alarm of which has seemed like a starter's pistol as DD SPRINGS away from the piano bench. Not kidding.

Now, here is the part that I think that applies to us both.

1. Are you really sure that this is a "privilege?" Because that is how you (and we, at one point) were treating piano lessons-- as a "treat" rather than, say... something like allergy shots which is "unpleasant sometimes, but ultimately for your improved quality of life in the long term/big picture." Now, maybe it's all of those things... but if it's a "this is good for you" thing, and I'd argue that it is; then maybe this isn't a decision which IS the child's to make. They lack the life experience to KNOW whether or not they should quit.

2. If piano is a responsibility that YOU (parents) have deemed a priority, then be matter-of-fact about that-- practice is either negotiable or it isn't, or something in between...

3. Find out WHY your child is/is not into playing-- but know what is B.S. and what isn't there, and be honest about how much control you are actually ceding to him. My DD's favorite excuse is that her "hands hurt" if she plays longer than 15 minutes. Which is baloney-- because she is willing and able to use the ergonomic equivalent of "The Scream" on her computer keyboard to IM with her friends for four or five HOURS at a time, thank-you-very-much. Czerny isn't stressing her hands NEARLY as much as that must. The other excuse that we hear is "I forget to practice." Well, the answer to that one is routine-routine-routine; a morning SCHEDULE that allows for thirty minutes of practice to be tied to that scaffold (along with other chores and personal care, KWIM?)

4. What is YOUR goal here? Is it to foster love of the instrument? To foster a sense of personal responsibility? To teach that effort is proportional to results? To develop work ethic? All of those are worthy goals-- but they require different responses to the situation, certainly... our goals were basically weighted toward the end of the list because we don't have ENOUGH of those opportunities for our DD. Sadly, that means that item one is up for sacrifice if that is what it takes.

5. Different teacher? Is it that this teacher and your child are no longer a good fit either pedagogically, interpersonally, or musically? My DD has struggled with this one, since her teacher is a Baroque afficionado, and DD's interests are more along the lines of the 20th century Russians and Jazz improv... but the interpersonal fit is good, and frankly, any advanced teacher is going to kick her to the curb in a hurry given her mouthiness and lack of 'commitment' to practice.


Personally, I'd be reluctant to let a child determine how important this is. I mean, yes, ultimately it IS his/her decision in terms of how seriously they invest in it themselves... and that determines how well they play (or don't), how much they enjoy it, and the like. But it is about larger things than most children (even OUR children) can grasp at this point in their lives, since they lack something very important that we as parents possess-- perspective.

Quitting is easy. How many adults have you known who are glad that they quit and that their parents permitted it?

(Yeah-- me too. That gave me pause, actually, and caused me to rethink the approach that we'd taken up until that point. Our previous approach was much like yours. We'd tried making HER pay for any lesson that she hadn't practiced for, threatening to 'take away' this privilege if she didn't toe the line, etc. Rethinking changed that-- we battle over it far less than we used to.)

My feeling is that if DD tells me that she WANTS to quit... she needs to feel that way for {some period of time} before I'll consider it. That period is, for our family, six months. Her doldrums have never lasted that long, so she's still playing.

Reading replies with interest. So far, with DS8, it's worked fine to say that practising daily (unless there's a genuine reason why it's impossible some day) is a condition of having lessons. You don't feel like practising today? Ah, so you've decided to give up this instrument. No? Off you go to practise then. (I present this as partly a value for money of lessons issue, but more a respect for teacher issue.)

I do think the "daily" rule is probably a lot easier to insist on than something less than daily but more than not at all!

Taken in the context of your other threads like missing ballgames and scouts and now piano and of course homework... seems like a recurring theme, could it be at root stress from being overscheduled?

Our rule was one sport, one musical instrument - your choice, feel free to try out several, but you will do something in music and a sport at least through mid school. We left practicing up to them for music, because life is crazy and busy and none of our kids had a passion to become a concert performer or musician.

I'd personally back off and not see pulling the plug as punishment but not paying for an extra that maybe has outworn its place in his life. Ask if he'd rather play a different instrument. We were thrilled when our kids picked band, because it took the "work" away from us and into school where it was also an escape from bad fitting academic classes.

And with our youngest who is 2E, it is a different story. He can't handle as much on his plate, so we don't push it as much. He does track and the rest of the time just goes to the gym and he plays drums in the band. When he practices and home, I tell him how nice he sounds, but I don't require practicing. His life is way too stressful to add more.

Who initiated the piano lessons? Whose decision was instrument selection? How much ownership of decision-making (e.g. repertoire selection, ensemble work, timing of lessons) does your child possess?

I think I come closest to HK in this and I am very grateful for her post as its made me realize that next time we face this issue that there are some better ways to think and talk about it. I see piano as OT/therapy for my DD, so I need to stop kidding myself or anyone else that it is optional.

OP every day or at the very least every weekday works for us and as a set part of morning routine. And using the "home routines" ap on an iPad was life changing for us in terms of DD learning to manage her mornings and herself in general. The ap is meant to help you manage your chores, flylady style, but it works just great for programming kids' routines, down to having individual daily lists, for morning, afternoon and evening (particularly great if your kid needs different uniform, different equipment, etc each day). We use it less now but it used to be programmed down to : Tuesday morning: dress in sports uniform, pack formal uniform, unpack lunchbox from school bag after school, bag on hook, etc

I saw this earlier but didn't have time to comment. I think that if you made this deal, you need to stick with it. If you really feel that he will ask to go back after a month off, then maybe you could pay the teacher to hold his space.

This reminds me of when my niece was given an ultimatum by her mom that if she didn't get a project done by a certain date that she would no longer be allowed to homeschool. When I heard about this, I looked at my niece knowingly and acknowledged that she had no intention to finish the project. She got a huge grin on her face and said of course not. She didn't know how to tell her mom that she wanted to go to a traditional school. Her mom was very invested in homeschooling and was convinced that regular school was the ultimate punishment. Maybe your son is saying that he wants out of piano? If so, why force him to continue at this point? It sounds like time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere. After 6 years, he's not a frustrated kid who can't handle the challenge. I like the idea of getting him into another instrument.

For my kids, I think that the greatest value has come from the adult/mentor relationship. With my DD who is 2e, we have had various phases where she just needs a break for a month. Her teacher has been willing to work with us. We haven't paid her for the time but we've always managed to work back into her schedule though not always at our preferred time. Dd likes piano but she really misses her teacher who also acts as an informal therapist. I've decided that I value that relationship too. Now, I don't stress out as much when she doesn't practice enough.

We've never had to push that hard, not really. I am glad we have pushed through an our DD does have an ever growing love of music. But knowing whether to push through comes down to knowing your child... Or hoping you do...

I do think you need to follow through on threats though.

I'll try to address some questions/comments but I'll have to reread the posts to hit everything.

Piano is (and has always been) his choice, starting at age 4 when I taught him what little (what little) I know about it. When he was 5, he begged for lessons for six months before we gave him - we thought he was too young.

He says he doesn't want to practice because it is boring. I can understand that, but I think you should buckle down and do it. He's not motivated, really, in any part of his life. Maybe it's a lack of challenge; maybe it's stress for being overscheduled. Who knows.

He also plays the French Horn in the top MS band (one grade up) and he also struggles with practicing that.

Practice has been required - every weekday morning and at least one day on the weekend. A schedule in the morning before school and free choice time on the weekend. However, I can't *MAKE* him play. We've punished, cajoled, rewarded, bribed, encouraged, threatened, spanked and everything else to get him to practice. When it comes down to it, though, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

He is very musical. He has potential. He has talent. He can do well with minimum effort. He does these festivals and scores excelllent or superior (superior plus is the highest) without much effort. He technically plays very well but doesn't do the practice necessary to get the correct tempo and dynamics. His teacher is keeping him at the level he's on because of those two things.

He hates the thought (at least verbally) of quitting piano lessons. The compromise of 12/16 days practice was his idea, not mine.

I'm not sure what I want him to get out of it. Fun, joy, challenge. But, I'd sacrifice those things to reduce my stress, I think.

I've walked away and tried very hard to make it his deal. I just can't when he's just wasting time and not doing anything. Or, he's getting sneaky. Last week, he was supposed to be practicing and I heard one song and then a funny rhythm I didn't recognize and went to check. He was playing with his right hand and holding a book in his left and reading. Not the first time this has happened.

I'm not making him take piano lessons. He's chosen it all along. I've always given him the ability to stop, with the proviso that he give it six more months before making a decision. He has never indicated in any way that he wants to stop. Or, maybe by not practicing, he's trying to tell me something?

I'll have to think about your comments some more and try to figures out what we (as parents and as a family) want from him taking piano. I think it's all just so frustrating because it seems like I'm not getting any cooperation from him and piano is a big expense and maybe I'm just reacting emotionally to it and not putting though into it.

Ughh!

My recommendation would be to think long and hard about this question, then, because the correct course of action stems from this answer.

In our household, DD7 was enrolled in guitar lessons as a result of task-avoidant perfectionism issues. She needed to work on something that's hard, so she can see how mistakes are normal, part of the learning process, and practice is necessary in order to acquire a skill. When practice became an issue, we let her drop guitar, because she was already getting the same value from other sources (soccer, gymnastics, dance), and the lesson is taking hold.

The door is not closed on guitar, though. Daddy got his first electric for Christmas, and DD is intrigued. I reiterated that she can have one of her own if she earns it by working on the one she has.

You indicated that piano is something he has been intrinsically driven to do, so it might be a good strategy to stop it completely. The suggestion to pay the teacher to keep his slot open is a pretty good one. You could explain that his teacher requires him to practice, but arguing with him about practice is driving you insane, so you're just not going to argue with him anymore, he's just not going to do any more piano lessons for X months. At the end of that time period, he can go back to lessons, but daily practice is not going to be a major source of arguments between you, or you'll pull the plug again.

I'm just using my imagination here because I did not take music lessons as a child and I only have young children. I have seen a few "grown" men who had some kinds of synthisizers, keyboards, even one hooked his electric keyboard to the computer for some reason. They were able to compose and mix full length songs, for example mixing flute (sounds) with guitar, piano, and drum synthesizers and vocals. It looked like one track at a time and blend them. I have no idea how expensive this. I also don't know if this is the end results you're looking for. I thought if your kid has learned his lessons maybe you could describe this to a music store salesman and see if it's not too expensive to set him up a little home recording studio like this it should last for years of use. He can begin to create his own thing. If he needs more lessons it will show him where and why. Just throwing that out there.

PS. Thanks Cawdor for sharing about the Fisher Price I Can Play Piano. Awesome-sauce!

Ahhh-- reading your response, petunia, your DS' explanations sound so very familiar. DD, too, was begging for lessons from the time she could talk, and we finally relented when she was six.

I get a lot of shrugs and promises, and inexplicable statements that don't tally with what we see-- that is, that she SAYS she wants to continue with lessons, loves the teacher, etc. etc. but then refuses any and all efforts to make practicing at home actually work.

One of the problems that we've battled here is that the very IDEA of ""practice"" is fairly alien for PG children in an area of natural ability. KWIM?

DD honestly has no idea how naturally gifted she is either academically or musically, for that matter. She truly thinks that because she doesn't have a reach like Billy Strahorn or Liszt, she's "not really suited" to the instrument. (Seriously-- she can reach a 10th and she's a very petite 5'2" so this makes NO sense... she has freakishly long fingers and amazing hand strength.)

She is frustrated because she "can't sight-read very well." What she means is that she can't just sit down and sight read BACH, for heaven's sakes. She sight-reads better than any musician I've ever known (and we have pros in the family), and always has.

She wants to have the technical ability of Liszt or Schiff, the improvisational skill of Jellyroll Morton and Mozart, and the coolness of Fazil Say. Without practicing, of course. Because if she, you know, has to WORK at it, it's not like she's really "talented" at it or something.

I guess, anyway.

Ergo, she avoids practicing because it makes her feel inadequate.

So yeah, in our estimation, this is a BAD reason to allow her to avoid things or to quit, because her reasons are about task-avoidant perfectionism.

One strategy that we've recently implemented is a "practice plan" and journal as a part of daily practice. She and her teacher come up with a weekly plan-- which is 10% warm-up, 30% work on current pieces and technique-builders, and the remainder is "whatever makes you happy." In that order. Until we pointed it out to her, she truly didn't understand that there is a difference between "playing" and "practicing." Nevermind the notion of "warming up" to practice.

We'll see how it goes, but it seems to have been quite freeing to her to spend part of that 30-45 minutes each day just doing what makes her HAPPY-- riffing on Billy Joel or Mancini or whatever.

I'm going to throw out a few random thoughts based on my own experience studying piano and a few experiences we've had with our kids studying piano - take them or leave them, they may apply or might not. As others have said, this is a very individual/family decision.

First me - I *loved* studying music and playing music and for a while in high school seriously considered majoring in it in college. I mention that only to make the point - I was completely in love with music, and very intrinsically motivated to study it. There were periods of time I practiced a lot every day... and there were times when I didn't want to practice but practiced anyway, and there were times when I did everything I could to avoid practicing but still took lessons anyway. I am sure my parents weren't thrilled with the periods of time I didn't feel like practicing, but they didn't take away the lessons because they felt there was value in having us stick with piano lessons. It all worked out eventually because after the period had passed, I naturally morphed back into the wanting-to-practice stage.

Next thing that happened - by the time I hit mid-high school I had spent years studying classical piano and I *loved* it - but - I was also tired of it. I had a great teacher and I liked her, but she wasn't going to be the teacher to teach me what I wanted to learn then. That's when my mom gave me a *wonderful* gift - she let me switch teachers and take jazz/rock lessons. I know it wasn't what she really wanted me to do musically, but she realized that's what I needed then for inspiration, so she asked around, found a recommendation for a great teacher, and that last year of high school I fell in love with piano all over again in an entirely new way. Ironically, those lessons in that short year also gave me the skills to be able to improvise and play anywhere anytime in a different way than all the *wonderful* years of classical piano. I can still pick up a sheet of classical music and I can sight read it well enough to play quite a bit of music, but the other lessons gave me the ability to play when I'm at someone else's house, play something that everyone knows or can sing to, that kind of thing.

Which brings me to my last random thought from my experience - once I was in college I was way to busy to practice or take lessons and I didn't have access to a piano to use even if I'd wanted to practice. When I graduated from college I had a ton of fun (as well as my first job lol). I didn't feel like practicing piano and I didn't have one of my own. Years later (literally years!) I was given my childhood piano... and I can still play it. I am not as sharp as I was as a well-rehearsed teen and I am not as inclined to practice at all - but all those years of lessons stuck with me and gave me the gift of music for life. It wasn't money wasted, even in the periods where I didn't want to practice while I was taking lessons.

Re my own kids' experience - we started all three of our kids studying piano when they were relatively young. My ds was 7, which is a pretty typical age to start, but his sisters were 5 and 3. We had no intention of starting the three year old at that time, but she's uber-competitive so it was less painful to have her take lessons than having to deal with the jealously of older sibs doing something she didn't get to do! Anyway, my ds practiced dutifully although I had to push to get him to practice more than I would like to. He never seemed terribly interested in lessons, and we actually suggested to *him* that he quit a few times over the years but he didn't want to - he would beg to continue (even though it was becoming a fight to get him to practice). We let him continue and just gave up the worry about whether or not he practiced. At around 10-11 years old he started getting fascinated with playing - but not with playing what his teacher was teaching. So we've had him continue the lessons, let him add in the things that he's interested in and we've also had him show what he's chosen to his teacher and she's been good about letting him study those things to. Giving him the option of choosing what he plays for at least part of his lessons has really ramped up his enthusiasm, and I suspect that he'll be a piano player for life.

My older dd had a lot of difficulty with her lessons at first and absolutely *hated* them and hated to practice. I didn't let her quit simply because when she sits down at the piano without anyone telling her to practice she plays her own thing - beautifully. She's clearly the most naturally musically inclined of my kids, and so with her too I just let her take the lessons and do her own thing for most of her practice time, and I never stressed out if she didn't practice. She hasn't learned as much as quickly as my ds, but she has made progress.

My youngest dd - she's begging to quit because she has a full schedule. She isn't terribly interested in piano and doesn't seem to be musically talented or musically inclined at all. I'm most likely going to let her quit. I only mention her because.... she's my child who practices without a fight!

Sooooo.. that's our completely random set of experiences. For the OP here, I'd probably let my ds continue with lessons and not stress too much about the practicing for now. I would also be really careful about the threats I make (I find this gets me into trouble quite frequently!) - I think a threat to take away something for not practicing is totally valid.. but I find myself in predicaments like this too - the logical consequence that slips out of my mouth without thinking it through carefully might happen to be something *I* don't want them to give up! Parenting can be so complicated lol!

polarbear

I also agree this is a very personal decision, that each family needs to make based on their own beliefs etc...

That said, I think that a child who has played any instrument, or any sport etc for that matter, after a certain amount of time- they know whether they like it or not. They have certainly shown whether they have an aptitude for it or not. But even if they show amazing talent, if the desire, or ambition, the love of (in your case) playing piano- if that is not there? I really feel that the child deserves to be heard and considered, and ultimately that it should be their choice at some point.

I do not believe after so many years vested, if the decision is being made for the right reasons, I don't believe this is encouraging your child to be a "quitter".

I am in agreement that music is important for kids, I believe it is an important and wonderful way for them to express and release emotions and energy... and some kids go on to show amazing talent in the field- but I don't think that formal lessons are a Must. I think just the exposure to music is important, and yes, the opportunity to take lessons is a wonderful thing, but just exposure, and having an instrument etc to play "for fun" is also an amazing thing.

I strongly believe that a child who really likes/enjoys something-- they will WANT to do it- they will show a definite dedication to it. I believe this because of personal experience.
maybe- Allow him to take a break? Perhaps he will realize he really does want to do it, and ask to start back?
Also, kids change, something they loved @ 6 they may not love @ 12! That's very normal! **I wonder if your child should be introduced to another instrument? I went from the piano, to the clarinet. and I fell in love Thanks to the piano, I knew music theory, I could read music- and the clarinet uses same scale, so it was very easy transition really...
Possibly your son might enjoy the sax?

*I am planning to start my DS6 on piano soon! He has a beautiful Ludwig drum kit and he loves to play "for fun" no formal lessons yet. He has also been "playing" (on the) piano since he was an infant, as my mother gave him her Baldwin upright- it sits in his playroom, and he plays it quite often, and has asked to take piano lessons. I've been waiting d/t $ and I also read that it is better to introduce piano/music theory after reading is well established--- any thoughts on that to all you parents of young pianists?

Good luck with your decision...

Petunia,

I laughed so hard at the description of your son reading a book with one hand while practicing with another. I well remember trying to hide a Zane Grey novel behind my music so I had something interesting to do while waiting for my hour of practice to tick off of the egg timer.

Your comment about his superior rankings at festivals also reminded me of my own experience. I was musically talented, and if I could hear my teacher play the piece first, I could mimic her within a couple of weeks without ever really learning to read the music, I earned unanimous superiors at our state festivals every year but one - when I walked into the concert hall and had my mind go completely blank where I didn't even know where to start on the keyboard. Once I was given the first note, it all came back, and I ended up with superiors from two of the three judges.

I tell you this by way of underlining my own experience when I say that talent does not mean love or passion for something. My sister loved piano and was far more passionate and disciplined about practicing. My mother wouldn't let me quit, so I started devising every way I could think of to practice but not excel, etc. I have my great grandmother's piano in my home but never touch it except to dust it.

If he is actively sabotaging himself, maybe he is sick of piano but doesn't know how to express it appropriately - or he may not even know how to recognize that he is burned out.. Maybe it is time to recommend a break from lessons and to suggest that he take some time to think about whether he is ready to move on to a different instrument, would rather just play the piano for his own enjoyment, etc. Perhaps an enforced sabbatical from lessons will make it the forbidden fruit where he realizes he does want to take lessons again and put his genuine best effort into it.

But you, of course, know your kiddo. This is just my totally biased perspective.

I haven't read all the responses all the way through but this is my experience...I started taking lessons at 8 years old. Around that same age, 11 - 12, I started begging my mom to let me quit. I hated practicing, my teacher was just OK (an elderly woman) and I really hated recitals. But my mom made me go anyway.

For a couple years, I cruised by without doing a lot of practicing - my mom did not make me practice much that I can remember but she did expect me to go to my lesson once a week. I ended up taking formal lessons though about age 17, I guess. In the end, I was really glad my mom made me take the lessons. Even though I don't have access to a piano (and haven't since I lived at home full time - some 19 years!) I can still play half-decently when I visit my parents. Our home has no room for a piano at the moment but I WILL be buying one whenever we move because I miss playing and I want to teach my kids.

Maybe that could be an alternate choice? Let up on trying to get him to practice but insist that he still goes to his lessons. He will still learn to play and will probably realize after he is not prepared at his lessons that maybe he could practice at least a couple times a week (once it started getting too hard to fake at my lesson, I started practicing more).

Just another idea that may work. Good luck!

My son wanted to quit at 11 because wearing a scoliosis brace for three years made it more difficult and uncomfortable for him to play. He had been taking lessons since he was five. Before the brace he would practice several times a week. I didn't want him to quit, so we made some changes. I told the piano teacher that his pain issues made everything more difficult and that all of his other learning had to take priority. I told her that he might not practice at all but I didn't want him to forget what he had learned. We decided to let him pick out songs to work on and he found some really nice songs from Japanese anime. Some of them were more challenging than what he had worked on before but since he wanted to learn them he did better than he had before. He was more focused. The pain did not seem to distract him as much and he made progress each week at the piano lesson even though he did not practice during the week because he could not take off the brace like he did sometimes at the lesson. It surprised me, that he could remember a lot of what he had learned the week before even without practice, even though he still had some sensory issues and pain--I guess this is an example of the power of music.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'll throw in our story.

DD17 quit lessons a few years ago. Basically, the entire time she was taking lessons (a good 7-8 years), she never practiced what she was supposed to. Since she is very musically talented, she was able to sightread well enough to convince her teacher that she had actually been practicing over the week. I didn't realize that she hadn't been practicing because she did play piano all the time. It just happened that it wasn't what she had been assigned. Towards the later years when she was playing difficult classical music, this didn't work as well, and she started to really hate lessons.

This always confused me, because I thought DD was really talented with piano. It turns out she was talented in a different way - she has less success trying to play off sheet music than she does just listening to a song and creating her own arrangement. When we eventually let her quit, we learned that quitting piano lessons didn't change her love for music. She still plays piano constantly (and has taken up several other instruments), and is keyboardist in a band.

So, quitting piano lessons might seem like "the end of the road", but definitely isn't always . Anyway, that's just our story. Best of luck as you decide.

I don't know about the rest of your post, but I had to weigh in to say that this is totally not true. I switched from saxophone to bassoon in the 9th grade, at the band teacher's request, and it took all of two weeks for me to be better at the new instrument than I'd been at the one I'd been playing for five years.

I also know little of music and DS7 may or may not take up music. It seems that practice of a sort aimed towards performance may be useful for a large percentage of people. But drill down depth first learning is not the best approach for all people. If she is oriented towards music in a very creative way, and she is an exploratory learner, then I'd think trying a wide variety of different instruments and playing many different pieces would be the best way to go.

Personally, I don't learn things by repitition of the same. I learn by doing a wide and changing variety of things. People learn to write by reading and writing a lot, but not typically the same things in perpetuity. It's almost an inverse where for a small percent of creative writers perfecting one piece is epiphanic for them. When it is art like writing, the outside driver to success is not a teacher, but a mentor.

So, continuing your theme, maybe what you need is not a violin teacher but rather a music mentor; someone who is oriented towards music creatively.

Hello! I went through this with my two sons. I feel your pain! I solved the problem by easing up on theory and playing "contest" pieces. Their piano teacher knew she was going to lose them if we didn't figure out something quick, so the remedy was to have them choose and play whatever they wanted with no restrictions. Sometimes they choose to read notes but sometimes they will choose to play by ear or even add on their own "twist" The fun came back! They now only choose all of the "popular" songs you hear on the radio No more Bach or Beethoven Lol (at least not yet) They also started composing their own pieces. I'm happy to say the joy of playing piano is back! Good luck!

Personally I think that teacher is nuts - it makes no sense! If that were true, then every musician who's played more than one instrument would have to have started studying the extra instruments before age 11?

I played clarinet in our school band from 5th-10th grade, then got a bit bored with clarinet and wanted to play sax in the jazz band. I took private lessons for just a few months and everything I had learned from playing clarinet made it easy to pick up another instrument quickly, and I was in jazz band the next year. I also picked up flute the same way the year after.

There are soooo many violin players in school. Bass is a very cool instrument! I hope your dd has a chance to learn it

polarbear

I agree about letting the child choose what they play.
DS4 started at barely 3, they took him because he could read well, had amazing eye hand coordination and long fingers. He has done amazingly well and has a wonderful creative teacher who keeps him on his toes. Right now she makes a lot of the work about super heroes! Before that it was little Einsteins, dinosaurs etc.
DS can now totally sight read music and the themed practice is fun. I suppose
If a teacher was willing she could find something to motivate an older child.
A Julliard graduate has offered to teach DS when he turns five. He says he'll make it fun too!

I agree with others, this is absolutely nuts. In fact, my daughter's middle school band teacher has been actively encouraging some of the kids to switch instruments to fill in some needs. One of DD's good friends recently switched from clarinet to oboe and is coming up to speed quickly. Others have switched to baritone and tuba with similar positive results. My nephew switched from saxophone to bassoon when he started high school. As a junior, he is now playing bassoon with a university-level wind ensemble.

Maybe the teacher has another agenda, i.e. he/she only has one bass to lend out? I wouldn't let the teacher's comments hold your DD back from making a switch if that is what she wants to do.

The more I read through these responses, the more I'm leaning towards the idea that these kids are resistant to practice because the teaching method is, for them, every bit as inappropriate as a normal classroom setting for math or reading. Seems rather self-evident when you phrase it that way, doesn't it?

I think I'm going to revisit the approach for my DD and guitar. Rather than focus on repetition and skill acquisition, I should just focus on teaching her the concepts, then let her run with them however she likes. After all, that's the learning mode I adopted for myself.

Good point, Dude. I'm going to have some of this discussion with his piano teacher. My husband has convinced me to keep him in lessons, that we'll regret it if we pull him out now. I'm still not sure but that's how we are proceeding. He wants me to "let it go" and that is very, very hard. I don't know how to continue without getting more stressed about it. This morning, during son's piano time, he curled up in my bed, hid under the blankets and refused to come out. So, I said "I don't like it when you behave this way. I expect better of you" and walked out. Same thing when it was horn time. Then, it was time to get up and finish getting ready for school and I kept having to tell him every five minutes to get ready. So, off he went, without his teeth brushed, without his library book (due today), and without his medicine.

I don't understand this kid at all.

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions, advice, and stories. It all helped me think things through and, although I'm not sure about the decision we made, at least it had some thought and wasn't an emotional reaction. We'll proabably take the summer off from piano.

Petunia, I've been astonished at how well using "playing" as a reward for technique practice has worked.

We're into this several weeks now, and DD isn't really "practicing" any more than she ever did, but she is PLAYING more, which means that her practice is far more effective. She doesn't actually need to practice something hundreds of times to master it. Only dozens.

I think that this has always been the disconnect for her- how on earth to actually fill an hour (or even 20 minutes) with four or five things that each take up only 2-3 minutes. The idea of actually playing them again and again for forty minutes is horrifying to her, and it serves no rational purpose that she can see.

Given the freedom to just "play" during that time each morning, though...

We've had the best luck circumventing her obstinance about things that we as her parents feel are important habits/activities by couching it in honest terms-- we are wanting her to establish HEALTHY HABITS.

Walking her dog each day, rain or shine is: a) responsibility whether she feels like it or doesn't, and b) regular exercise is healthy, but mostly c) exercise is one of the best COPING skills for stress that exists.

Music is another one of those healthy "coping" strategies that doesn't rely on anyone else, and can be used to 'work through' emotional upsets and even used as an effective escape from problems that we can't solve.

Those coping strategies are particularly important for kids who are outside of the majority of any population distribution in some way, because they have to learn to live in a world that is OFTEN out of synch with them. That's a constant stressor. It becomes even more critical if the child in question has emotional OE's, since they will have all the more "stuff" to work through as a result.

In leveling with our DD about WHY we make some of the parenting decisions that we do, and asking her to trust us, we gain a lot more cooperation from her.