Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion How petty can teachers get!?!

Hmm.

I sympathize with a giftie fidgeting while being subjected to the fourth lecture about addition models in two weeks. But the topic was poetry. It seems reasonable to expect that even a very bright child might learn something in that situation.

As for the "bad behavior" label, it seems reasonable to me based on what you described. Sorry; I know this isn't what you want to hear, but your daughter did something she almost certainly know she shouldn't have done. She likely distracted other kids and sent a message to the teacher saying, "I don't care about this poetry stuff." IMO, this is bad behavior.

If the teacher didn't contact you about it, s/he probably didn't see it as a big deal, was reacting in proportion to the scale of the problem, and was consequently not being petty at all.

Learning to respect others is important, and your DD was being disrespectful. True, she was disrespectful in a small way, but the punishment was also small. Yet was apparently enough to get her attention if she saw fit to tell you about it. Personally, I think this is a good lesson.

I get that little kids don't understand all the rules: they're little kids and this is to be expected. But consequences like reduced grades for not behaving properly are there to teach the rules. Again, based on what I read, the teacher's reaction was absolutely appropriate.

I agree, and this might seal the deal for you:

Fast forward to her mid 40s, and pretend that she's my husband. Last year he was suspended without pay for 2 weeks because he said something rude in a company meeting. There was a guest speaker who complained about him, thinking the rude comment was directed at her (it wasn't and he had coworkers speak up in his defense, but he was still suspended). He was quick to play the victim "I was misunderstood" and I was quick to come back with "oh boo hoo. If you'd only kept your mouth shut and acted like a professional, you wouldn't be in this mess."

Gifted kids are not exempt from learning respect and proper behaviour...

These two examples are night and day, and the socioeconomic bias towards rich kids isn't even veiled. We live in one of the wealthiest districts in our state, and I have a hard time believing some of the of the kids whose parents can afford 6 weeks in Europe while requiring their children to keep up with studies hardly qualifies as wasted time. I really don't get the resentment towards children whose parents can provide those kinds of opportunities; if sure would if I could. And it is seriously not the same as some kid who is ditching - wealthy or poor.

I have never understood participation grades. My daughter played the system and got A's because she knew how to nod her head while doing homework for another class - she wasn't paying attention but sure looked the part. My youngest, who actually cares about learning, rarely gets full points for behavior because of spacing out thinking about something the teacher said or because of challenging a premise of the teacher's and getting docked for being disrespectful. He actually gets far more out of the class than my daughter, but because she was a better game-player, she got the points for participation.

If a kid is disruptive, there should be consequences, but grades should be about whether they learned the assigned material.

Just my two cents

Thanks for that message, ABQMom. It was needed. I took my son to DC with me last year when I went on business. He did all his homework and learned extra math while I was in meetings, and then spent three days wandering around the Smithsonian with me. All in all, it was time very well spent (as opposed to "whatever").


I see your point here, but I don't completely agree. Kids need to learn that there's a accepted way to behave properly and a right way to treat other people. IMO, this is a legitimate part of an education. I agree that "participation" grades can be used to inflate the grades of low-performing students (or as a way to express resentment). But this isn't the same as reducing a grade because a student is disruptive (thereby harming the ability of others to learn) or disrespectful.

I've worked with people who get their work done, but are toxic to others around them by being rude, disrespectful, or demeaning. I don't care if they get their work done if their behavior makes others who also get their work done unhappy enough to quit. Not to mention that they can interfere with the ability of others to get their work done. I happily knock points off their grades in a performance review if they work for me (or fire them if it comes to it).

IMO, if it is a legitimate part of an education (I debate this in my head, because there is a slippery slope of enforcing mainstream norms to the exclusion of minority viewpoints), then it should be graded separately. It only compounds the underlying hypocrisy and often seeming meaninglessness of grades by reducing subject grades because of behavior factors.

In various employee review systems I've used, there is separate scoring between character and team based measures and specific job performance measures.

On the other hand, for participation, look at an advanced educational context like a graduate seminar and it isn't quite adequate to measure only test and project performance. There is an aspect of learning that isn't as measurable that takes place in the dynamics of a seminar. If someone does not show up, they won't have partaken of that.

I'd also be curious to see the coursework teachers take (if any) on developing/teaching character.

The other thread on issues with a math teacher illustrate alternate risks. Overall an interesting topic, as I can't even decide if I think required community service in an IB program is a good or a bad thing.

Hmmm everyone makes such good points - many different considerations... good food for thought. My DS told me he finds math so boring he fell asleep during math class the other day... he said "thank God no one noticed!" LOL! Hoping I won't be the next one posting about this!

LOL I just asked DD10 if anyone's ever fallen asleep in class, and she told me one boy did. I asked what the teacher did, and she said "she knew he wasn't feeling well that day so she told us all to leave him alone and let him sleep."

(awwww )

On a somewhat related note, I got in trouble for reading a novel under my desk in History 11 class (HATED that class). I remember feeling bad once I realized how rude I was being - I had no idea. It took that experience for me to clue in.

I never got in trouble for reading novels in class above my desk (about half my classes from middle through high school.) Actually can't fathom how that's rude. Conversely classes being compulsory and such and being compelled to sit through repeated material at a ponderously slow rate seems rude. Seems better than falling asleep or doing something overtly disruptive. Or worse I would pay attention and get highly engaged in the material and ask overly complex questions to enrich my understanding; now that's disruptive.

LOL I think because I was reading while the teacher was lecturing... oops


Especially when they're questions the teacher can't answer... ;p

I feel your pain, something similar just happened to my DD8. She is in 3rd grade and got all perfect scores (they don't use grades so I just call them perfect since she got the highest marks) in all areas that are academic but when it came to the "Social" section, she got marked down 1 rank/grade for "talks too much" and she got marked down 2 ranks/grades for "organization" ... No explanation for either. I talked to my DD about it and she said at the beginning of the year she was too talkative, but she was reprimanded for it and has been working on it since then. She had no clue what the organization was for, so I made her write her teacher a note to ask. IMHO, it is a teacher failure to provide a low mark without some type of constructive criticism to help the student identify the area of weakness to set goals to improve upon. Her teacher told her she kept a messy desk ... so yea, in our school, they get marked down for keeping a messy desk. Now,in the teacher's defense, I am CERTAIN she keeps a messy desk because she can be quite a slob about her own desk at home. It just caught me off guard, since she remembers her homework every day, gets her day planner signed every day, hands all her work in on time, has the proper attire at school for the weather outside, etc... I just figured THOSE were the things that being organized was all about. However, I supported the teacher and had a talk with my daughter, because it does her no favors in life to not learn how to hear and process constructive criticism. She told me two days ago she couldn't find her take home folder so I had her go to school and clean her desk yesterday and lo and behold, she found it. Hoping next report card will show an improvement!