Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Does "Love and Logic" work with gifted children

:nodding yes:

Absolutely.

The rest of that is also true, though.



Ultramarina, I just wish that I could give you a hug and tell you that it gets better. I can't do either of those things, unfortunately... and we, too, have taken away print material as punishment.

This is pretty much the ONLY place that I can admit this, but there is NO way that I can use "go to your room" as a time-out, because often as not, that is a REWARDING environment as compared with the reason why I've opted to send her there for non-compliance. Because there are BOOKS in there, see...

The reason why our "naughty spot" is the stairs or our living room hearth is that those are both locations which are isolated/in the open enough that it is extremely difficult for DD to grab/stash reading material for the duration.

I do think that Zen Scanner is onto something, though, because for all of the awful years between 4 and 12, things seem to be dramatically improved since she turned about 12, and we have a fairly rational, polite and civil teenager. I often chose to explain separately from the parent-child-conflict in the moment, though-- so if handwashing was a problem, I would explain during a non-charged moment WHY that rule existed for our household, and why it was so important to remember it. Problem solved. Of course, it becomes like wildland firefighting, with me as a parent continuously mopping up hotspots.

There was a lot of conflict along the way, but it does get results long-term. It's a process.

I wonder if some of the time we expect our girls to just get what we are trying to teach them because logically they are smart enough to understand. We have tried sitting them down and explaining why it is we ask them to do the things we ask of them. I know they listen and understand because I often hear, "mom, I know" when I try to correct a behavior. My typical response is that if they already know whatever it is they are doing is something we don't approve of then why is it they are doing it. They know that we expect them to be kind, respectful, etc. In the end I guess we need to realize no matter how smart they are they are still just 7 & 8. For the most part they are well-mannered and well-behaved (maybe a bit impulsive sometimes without thinking things through) but I would just like to improve certain areas, like doing what is asked without DH and I asking repeatedly.

Sounds like you are getting there. And if you are working directly on values, then I'd think any "system" that works on artificial consequences can undermine the core values you really want to impart.

Hardest thing we find (and even my Mom mentioned this recently), it is really difficult to realize just how young 7 is. She said: You get talking with DS and suddenly your mind thinks he is much, much older and then when he acts his age or has his feelings hurt or does something impulsive it seems so out of place.

I'm always amused by the "Marshmallow experiment." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
These kids can't wait 15 minutes to get double the reward?

I hate the spin given to that experiment because to me while the results might be predictive of later performance I think they are as much an indication of the child's level of trust in random adults -- in order to wait you have to believe that an unfamiliar adult will indeed keep his/her promise -- than of any innate quality. So are we selecting a trait (ability to defer pleasure) or are we selecting for healthy relationships with trustful adults in early life? Or a mix of both?

You will notice that popular wisdom ("the bird in the hand...) runs against the experiment's preferred outcome.

I hadn't played through that part with the adult trust. I get caught up in the poor kids who understand the outcome and have the knowledge, and then 4 minutes (or worse 12 minutes) into it their self discipline implodes.

I hadn't seen that there had been another study specifically set up to show the impact of tester reliability on results to the test. Ah! Glad to see I am not the only one to think there were issues in the original experiment and its interpretations...

And to get back to the original subject...

Choices and natural consequences have no effect on my (reasonably bright but probably not gifted) DD4. She will systematically pick option Z (whichever one the parent doesn't want) and letting it go to natural consequences immediately impinges on other people or gets into abuse territory (I am mostly unfazed at one skipped meal but are limits to the number of times food can be withheld). Clearly she can outthink her (supposedly gifted) mother.

That depends on what you define as "artificial," and on the kid.

Our DS, who has autism, could parrot back the values we wanted, but could not control his impulses according to them. A "system" was a really important tool for us to keep his attention on what we wanted from him, and make it worth it to him to comply. Over time, this can yield tremendous and positive behavior change.

DeeDee

Eh!

Currently reading reports before another IEP meeting for DS8, also AS. This time the speech therapist was able to clearly demonstrate that while he knows all the answers to what he is supposed to do in most social situations he just cannot apply that knowledge in real life.

For us/him time outs in his bedroom behind a locked door for tempter outbursts (and I don't withhold books because they help him calm down) and behavioral methods (because having a visual reminder of where he is at and where he is supposed to be at help a lot) were key.

Totally doesn't work with his NT sibs (he is actually the least stubborn of the lot).

It doesn't work for us. Consequences, natural, logical, artificial, or otherwise, mean nothing to my 11 year old. Also, he'll not choose one of the two choices. And, then, he'll turn around and try to use the choices thing on me.

Oh, he screams and moans about the consequences, but he'll he doesn't learn anything from it. For example, you can put on your baseball uniform and go play in your game or you can miss the game. Misses the game. Throws a big fit, apologizes, blames himself. Next week: time to get ready for your baseball game and he fusses and stalls and "wants to go but doesn't want to get ready" until he misses another game. I mean, really, how many activities can he miss and NOT LEARN to get ready. Same with karate, boy scouts, piano, whatever it is.

Makes me want to take away ALL of his activities but I know that's not healthy either.

I don't know if it has anything to do with being gifted or not but it does make me nuts.