Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 5 Year Old - KABC II & Woodcock Johnson -- HELP

I have a 5 year old that is currently enrolled in the Waldorf School. We are trying to figure out if this is the best spot for him as he has been assessed with low scores on MVPT-3 (less than 1%). At the same time, he completed the KABC II & the Woodcock Johnson Test of Achievement III and seemed to do well although I can't find any comparative scores for a child his age. Here's what we have:

MPI: 111
FCI: 121
Sequential Index: 115
Simulatneous Index: 94
Learning Index: 120
Knowledge Index: 141

Woodcock Johnson
Letter-Word Identification: 168
Reading Fluency: no score due to age
Story Recall: 112
Understanding Directions: 119
Calculation: no score due to age
Math Fluency: no score due to age
Spelling: 106
Writing Fluency: no score due to age
Passage Comprehension: 142
Applied Problems: 118
Writing Samples: 121

He's had no academic instruction at this point. We'd like to make sure we have him in an environment that will close the gaps between his strong and weak points.

Any suggestions on how to interpret the results and any experience with Waldorf vs. more traditional education options?

Thanks!

Dottie:

Thanks so much for your replies -- you are a wealth of knowledge!

Here's what I have for the WJ test:

Letter-Word ID: 4.8
ReadingFluency: 2.2
Story Recall: 1.8
Understanding Directions: 1.4
Calculation: n/a
Math Fluency: n/a
Spelling: K.4
Writing Fluency: n/a
Passage Comp: 2.1
Applied Problems: 1.4
Writing Samples: K.9

On the KABC II subtests:
Number Recall: 12
Word Order: 13

Conceptual Thinking: 10
Triangles: 12
Pattern Reasoning: 5

Atlantis: 14
Rebus: 13

Expressive Vocabulary: 17
Riddles: 17

Interestingly, the tests that they were unable to score measured Owen's writing abilities which he hasn't even started yet -- Waldorf has a non-academic kindergarten and doesn't even introduce letters and numbers until the first grade.

Amy

Funny! Of course, I know he can read. He taught himself at about 3 1/2. The MVPT testing was done by an OT for the school district.

We are trying to figure out whether we should leave him at Waldorf so he can catch up a bit on the motor issues. The challenge is it's great for balancing the intellectual, physical and emotional capabilities of the child. Academically speaking, I don't think it will be engaging enough for our child.

Interestingly, they have recommended that he stay in Kindergarten for another year due to his age -- Waldorf wants all kids to be 7 in the first grade.

Other options would be the public school, LI School for the Gifted or Montessori - that's really it.

Average kindergartners are not spelling or writing. All his other GE's place him at or above first grade.
Why in the world are they suggesting a K repeat?
I don't know anything about Waldorf, so sorry if I am a bit ignorant about their policies.
But does it make sense to keep a kid in K who is already achieving at and above first grade? Because of his age? I don't like educational decisions made for no other reason than for age, but that's just me. I don't understand it.

Sorry if I'm missing something, I can be a bit dense.

Neato

I had the same thought, 'Neato. In fact, I scoffed aloud at the computer screen.

It never ceases to amaze me when schools want GT kids to repeat a grade for reasons that seem so patently stupid.

Not to be blunt or anything... Sorry, rough week, so I'm in a cut-to-the-chase mood.

If I am not mistaken, The Waldorf school doctrine is very age driven. For example, they believe that children should not learn to read until they have lost their baby teeth (6 or 7 years old).

My DD has VCI=PRI+25. Gratified, your description fits her to a T. She started reading at 3 (begged me to teach her), loves books, maps, etc. She is not very interested in puzzles. Her PRI was probably depressed a little due to visual/motor problems affecting things like the block design. Her math achievement is higher that what you would expect from her PRI.

I'm not sure, but the impression I have is that the PRI subtests are designed to test logical reasoning and problem solving type skills. Those subtests also seem to be more visually loaded. The psychologist explained to me that DD's weaknesses in the visual/motor area showed up more in the block design because it is purely an abstract visual puzzle. For the subtests that have pictorial representations, DD was able to use her verbal brain to help her manipulate those concepts. She scored higher on those subtests. She scored highest in the verbal subtests where she gave an oral answer to a verbal question.

I think it's really interesting to take a peek into your child's brain and get an idea of how things work in there! Especially since my DD's thinking style is different from my own. It helps me figure out ways to explain things to her when my way of understanding doesn't make sense to her.

I was just pondering this very question ie how is PRI related to math ability?

Since math (or any academic skill for that matter) is a complex process I think there must be interplay between verbal and visual concepts in order for a person to "get" a math concept and be able to apply it. You're right, you can't just break these things down into VCI or PRI.

Hi Amy,
I would certianly check out LI school for the gifted, as I've heard good things about them. I have never actually gone to a Waldorf school, but I know folks who have, and have asked a lot of questions.

Here's what I think are the pros of staying with current situation and doing K for another year:
1) Since they aren't pushing the children to learn to read, he won't have to sit through dull letter learning lessons.
2) Waldorf has wonderful physical therapy-like lessons integrated into the classroom (eurythmy?) that would be valuable for his weak visual processing, although they may not be 'enough' by themselves.
3) Waldorf is wonderful at stimulating imagination and life skills which your son may enjoy tremendously.
4) If the program is half day, then he has a wonderful chance to enjoy agemates, and still has plenty of time to learn on his own at home with you.

Cons:
If it's a full day program it may be to tiring to leave him energy to learn afterwards.
He may not enjoy the imaginative/creative atmousphere.
LI School of Gifted may be a much better fit
What do you do the next year?

We have however found that worrying about 'next year' isn't very useful, as so much changes!

Best Wishes,
Grinity