Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Tips to fix letters and pencil grip in 9 year old?

DD9 (nearly 10) forms many letters wrong and has an inconsistent pencil grip. The school agrees that these cause problems in reading her handwriting, and has led to quantifiable drops in test scores. However, the school's line on our IEP meeting was that DD has 5 years of bad habits under her belt and it's too late to reteach her. And besides, since it's not nearly as bad as other kids, they won't try. Her IEP accommodations include simply that teachers will prompt DD to fix her pencil grip.

I don't believe that it can't be fixed. I think that with enough practice, it can be fixed. Handwriting can change. I cross 'z's, for instance, a habit I started only once I started taking algebra.

I'm looking for tips. DD is sort of on board with this plan for the summer.

Specifically, she forms letters turning many letters starting on an 'o' base backwards. That it, she makes a zero clockwise, such that when writing fast it looks like a 6. It also makes her printing very awkward because she keeps having to change directions in her writing.

On pencil grip, she will use the conventional tripod grip when relaxed, but when even slightly frustrated, she'll put her middle finger on top of the pencil. This then changes her handwriting midstream, and I suspect leads to more letter reversals (truely reversed, not just formed using the wrong directions). This has been the pattern for more than a year, though she seems to be using the wrong grip more readily than this time last year. She will do this despite using a pencil grip that aparently can't be used this way. She does it wrong regardless.

She's has diagnoses of dyslexia and dysgraphia. The dysgraphia does not appear to be of the fine motor form that leads to floating text or other formation problems. We see no other fine motor issues, and she's broadly coordinated and strong. She is working to learn to type and is working on cursive, but she still needs to be able to write by hand (both as a life skill and as something that isn't included in the IEP)

Tips to help fix this?

They make pencil grips that should be helpful for her holding the pencil properly. Like these - http://www.amazon.com/The-Pencil-Grip-Ergonomic-TPG-11106/dp/B001SN8HOY/ref=pd_sbs_op_1

As for forming her letters, I can only imagine practice and paying attention are the answer there. I wouldn't push her to worry about it during classtime, but perhaps you can work on it during homework time together? Perhaps you can work on some fun projects that include calligraphy or other fun and decorative writing together? I know around 4th-5th grade my girlfriends and I would play around with our handwriting, trying to find different cute or fun or neat ways to write. I changed my handwriting many times before graduating high school.

HWT starts o letters with a stick after it with a "magic c" instead of a circle. For example a letter d is "start off with a magic c... Now draw a line". a, c, d, g, o, q have a magic c in them. b p are a line and a circle. Any magic c letters starts with a letter c. Even "o" is a magic "c" letter.

That's one of the easier grips to defeat. . She also holds the pencil wrong with this "undefeatble" grip: http://www.amazon.com/The-Grotto-Pencil-Grip-set/dp/B004FF7M66

I agree the letter formation is fixable, I just don't know how to go about it, you know? We havn't stressed it for school work at all. Now that it's summer, I'm hoping for some more relaxed time to focus on it.

Caligraphy, or anything in pen, is not a good fit with frustrations. We need to erase at all time to avoid pushing the anxiety into high gear. I wonder if on a white board? Hmmmm.

Thanks Texican! I wonder if starting with everything but the 'o' would be best?

How to you establish the contrary habits of b vs d?

I agree that handwriting (in a typical child) can change, but dysgraphia complicates the picture. Even in a dysgraphic child, handwriting can change. Our ds had 9 months of handwriting OT when he was 8 and the OT work corrected his pencil grip, improved his writing posture, eliminated hand pain when writing (at the time), and improved his handwriting legibility. The OT worked with him on proper formation of letters but it didn't stick. His legibility didn't improve further, it stayed basally at the level he came out of OT with even though ds got older and his peers' legibility kept improving. The pencil grip stuck. Posture didn't always stick, but we can remind him and he sits up OT didn't eliminate letter reversals, punctuation errors, mixed up lower and upper case etc.

I also think it's important to keep in mind for kids with dysgraphia that even if their handwriting *looks* legible it can be very slow, and even more importantly, it's not truly automatic. Those of us without dysgraphia get to a point where we write without thinking about how we form the letters etc - our fingers simply learn how to do it. A dysgraphic person is going to have so much of their working memory continually focused on how to form the letters that they don't have working memory left over to adequately focus on other aspects of writing (both tasks such as punctuation/grammar/spelling and the content).

We're also living in a world where even parents of completely neurotypical kids are asking the question "why does the school spend so much time focused on handwriting when our kids are growing up in a world where they primarily type?". For our ds, there were just too many other things he needed to have a chance to focus on (both strengths and challenges) for us to lament too much over letting go of handwriting. He did learn cursive at school along with his 4th grade class, but halfway through sixth grade he realized he'd forgotten it (completely). He can sign his name, and I think that's important.

If you want to teach correct letter formation, there are many folks who recommend Handwriting without Tears - we tried it, and I think it might work for a child who doesn't have hand pain when writing and for a child who is willing to work on handwriting. OT is another avenue for improving legibility - but at 10 I'd be cautious about whether or not to do it simply because private OT can be expensive and there's no guarantee with a dysgraphic child that any of what is learned is going to be permanent.

I also was wondering if you see a pattern to when your dd becomes frustrated while writing (because you noted that she uses a conventional grip when relaxed). Sometimes kids with dysgraphia also have challenges with other aspects of writing - generating ideas, organizing thoughts, editing, etc. If there's a pattern associated with a particular piece of the writing process (outside of handwriting), working on it would potentially help reduce the handwriting issues. And the good news about those types of writing problems - they are easier (jmo) to remediate than the handwriting challenges that are due to dysgraphia.

Best wishes,

polarbear

We have tried three different grips from this brand (one is the same as one linked above):

http://www.thepencilgrip.com/dyn_category.php?k=25774

My DD (5yrs) was first put onto the "crossover" grip by her OT, but when I placed an order I decided to try the jumbo grips as well. She preferred them so we showed them to the OT at the next visit and the OT agreed that the crossover was good for her but the jumbo was better. The Australian store we bought them from sells sampler packs, with one of each of their styles too. It's worth trying a few.

My DD's handwriting has been radically transformed by the use of a grip, a custom made brace (she is hypermobile with super mobile thumb joints) and 10 mins practice a day. She's stopped fighting the practice now that she can see the results. Her teacher notes that she can see the vast improvement at school on both blank and normal lined paper, the difference on the dotted thirds we use at home is radical. Her teacher also notes the complete reversion to her previous standard without her grip. The brace helps but has a less profound effect.

When the OT saw her at 5.5 he said (due to my direct questioning) that her current grip was due to physical inability and not habit. BUT that if she ever got strong enough, years from now, to hold a standard pencil with a proper grip that without intervention she would by then have developed to the point of a habit that he would consider nearly impossible to break. The degree of success she's had with grips and brace has been unexpected (it was suggested that we be happy if she could sign her name and tick boxes), but she's still expected to be on full time laptop use by yr3.

I'll assume her preferred grasp is an ineffective grasp, and that's why the OT worked on it. I'm in my forties, and I unconsciously slip from a tripod grasp to my preferred grasp all the time. It's not ineffective, though. It's similar to the ones Chinese calligraphers use. It's much more comfortable for me, particularly near the end of the page, but I do get ink smears on my pinky.

On the other hand, I rarely write anything by hand anymore. In my 6th grade social studies class, the only thing I ever make my students write in cursive is their signature, and I'll write their names on a sticky note if they don't know how to do that.

When I was in seventh grade, I developed my own handwriting style, with lots of crazy rules for unique situations, like forming the o in store from the cross of the t. When I became a teacher, though, I had to re-learn standard handwriting, so now my handwriting looks like a middle school student wrote it.

Not helpful at all I'm sure but I am 36 years old and still hold my pencil incorrectly and start my O's from the bottom. I taught myself to read at age three and was beginning to write around the same time. By the time I hit school everybody was trying to change my grip (I put my index, middle, and ring fingers on top of the pencil) and my letter formation. I don't know if I was just too stubborn or what but it never did work. I always had marks on my report card about my handwriting and at least one teacher chalked it up to the hand not being able to keep up with the brain.

I am a nurse now and I was actually checking a patient in a couple of weeks ago who, it turned out, was a retired school teacher. She actually lightly scolded me for my pencil grip and it was quite obvious that it was taking everything in her power to not try to do something about it. My writing can be pretty messy but I can neaten it up if I concentrate on it.

Things that helped my kiddo:

Using mechanical pencils
Pencil grips
Repeatedly squeezing a squishy ball that fit in the palm of his hand
Tracing letters onto sandpaper
Shaking his hand out as a climber would after writing a few letters (this not only relaxes the muscles again but gives him a few seconds to refocus and "start fresh")

I've heard of using a ball of clay around the pencil, so it molds to the grip, or sticking the pencil through a squishy rubber ball and holding that. DS had teachers sending home those grippy rubber things for him all the time, and DD's teachers were concerned with her pencil grip last year in Kindergarten, but they both got over the odd grips somehow.

I know I used to deliberately use an outlandish grip at some point in grade school, and I also invented all kinds of different styles of writing over the years. Even now, if I have to write for a long period of time, I end up with a sore "crease" in the pad of my index finger from holding the pencil too tightly.

It's funny that "they say" now that kids don't really need to know how to write because they'll just be typing anyway -- my mom was told the same thing by my brother's teacher over 40 years ago! She said, just on the off chance that he doesn't grow up to have a secretary, please teach him to write anyway!

Geo, we worked on this through quality time on task. Speed-writing drills that target the preferred item. How many correct o's can you do in a minute? with a tiny reward if you can top your previous score. Or copying text from a paper, with incorrectly formed letters not counting in the total. (I suppose you could do copying math problems, too, since the 0 vs 6 issue is a problem.)

Even three to five minutes on this a few times a week did eventually get DS to learn some things he couldn't otherwise (and yes, things that the school wouldn't do for him. We started off with a fisted pencil grip that was very hard to change, and they wouldn't touch it because his writing was so pretty!)

DeeDee

Thank you all!

I've been reflecting on all this for the last few days while watching DD write in low-stress situations (like keeping score in a game). I'm thinking that we need to ditch the pencil grips or all other additives to force the grip. She is so set on the incorrect grip when stressed, that the crutch just gets in the way and makes it all worse.

We're going to see about starting this afternoon by working on the magic 'c' approach timing how long she can go with the correct grip. She's been working from a cursive writing workbook, which has a lot of copying, so I might use the same approach on the printing problems.

I'm still open to ideas!

I had to laugh when I read this. A good friend of mine is a retired elementary school teacher. Every time she sees me sign a credit card receipt, I hear, "That grasp!"

To which I always reply, defensively, "It's an effective grasp!"

Other ways to annoy elementary school teachers include, but are not limited to: reading upside down and leaving your shoes untied.

Well, I firmly believe we wouldn't be here if DD's teachers still prioritized pencil grasp. Looking around the room in a kindergarten or 4th grade class this year, it was quite evident that little attention had been paid to pencil grasp.

DD made her afterschool kindergarten teachers practically apoplectic by wearing her shoes on the wrong feet. No amount of my assuring them that she'd fix it once her feet were sufficiently asymmetric would reassure them. So for most of that year, she'd go to school with them on the wrong feet, and have them fixed for her in the afternoon. Then she grew, and suddenly it was no longer an issue. DS was exactly the same way.

Pencil grasp must be like that for some kids. Mine need it fixed.

Beckee--

I have ALWAYS been oblivious to my untied shoes! My teachers have been telling me since Kindergarten that I was going to trip over them yet, of all the time in my life that I have tripped, I don't know that it has EVER been because of untied shoelaces. I do get patients reprimanding me about this one a lot too.

Our OT used the "magic c" approach to printing with our son when he was about 7 and it worked really well.

She started with the correct formation for "c" and then added all the letters with a magic c as the beginning (c, a, d, g, q, o).

She then worked on the group of letters that start at the top of the line (b,t, etc).

He has a paper alphabet with red arrows showing where to start the letters taped to his desk.

I must say, he still does some "bottom up" that should be "top down" but overall his writing is faster and more legible.

I'm trying to decide if we should work on cursive, or just aim for legible printing and teach him to write only his name in cursive. I'm sure in a few years he'll be keyboarding most things.

My son used the conventional pencil grip and Handwriting without Tears. While using HWT he formed letters correctly most of the time, at least when I was watching him, but I think he would go back to forming them the way that was easiest for him when I wasn't. He would occasionally write 2's and 5's backwards. He didn't get OT for his handwriting because his handwriting was legible enough if he didn't have to write any longer than 5 minutes. Insurance wouldn't pay for OT and we couldn't afford it. He wasn't diagnosed with dysgraphia until he was 11 and we were told it was too late for OT to do any good.

We couldn't get any professional help so we had to find answers on our own. I started watching him write and do other fine motor things and realized that part of my son's problem was that his top finger joints bend backwards easily so they don't provide a lot of support for a pencil or a knife. His hands tire quickly if he holds the pencil correctly. He did hand strengthening exercises with a ball--it just didn't fix the real problem.

I asked by dad and other relatives if they had this difference. I wanted to know if my son had possibly inherited this difference. I thought if I found someone else in the family with this they could give us advice on how to work around the issues. My dad, who is very strong, has one finger that bends back like this on his left hand. He said he never noticed it until I asked him to check this. He is right handed so it never causes problems with handwriting. We didn't find anyone else.

So I just kept looking online until I found someone with a similar problem and I even managed to find an OT with the same problem. I found this discussion along with a picture of an alternative pencil grip that she uses that I think my son can use if his hands get tired using the traditional pencil grip. It might be like everything else he tries and help just a little, but at least my son can see that he is not alone and there are other people with similar issues that need to do things a little differently.

http://edsaus.ning.com/forum/topics/hypermobile-fingers-pens?commentId=2436044%3AComment%3A9529

My son takes notes with his iPhone. He taught himself to type and can do 60 wpm so handwriting issues don't hold him back.

hi there, I had a similar problem at agae 9 - and used to get detention to practice - ugh.
What worked for me was one of those really uncomfortable triangle pencil grips, rather than an ergonomic one, and hours and hours of single letter practice. I now have exceptionally neat hand writing and no mental scars! if I'm tier or in a hurry though my writing becomes illegible to even me, eventually I learn't shorthand so I could keep up with the teacher and copy my notes later. Do they still teach shorthand? Maybe your school will allow a secretary's recorder on her desk for her to tape the lesson and copy at her own speed later will you work on the problem.