Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments class size

I really wonder how many children they can jam into a classroom. Sigh... Our school has a full-time, self-contained gifted program so at least for 4th grade on up, it will be just kids in the gifted program. Hard to know if that matters anyway.
For kindergarten, we were at a private school with only 10 kids per class, and it wasn't that impressive. It probably partly depends on the quality of the teacher and the other students too.

There are currently 24 kids in DS's 3rd grade GT class. Last year, there were 29. I think the district will go up to 30 with special approval. It depends a lot on the teacher and the particular group of kids, I think, how well things go with a bigger class. DS had a much better year last year with 29 kids than when he was at his previous school with 23 kids. Of course, the previous school was a regular classroom with a huge range of abilities, whereas the current school is for HG kids, much smaller range to teach.

From our district's website:
Target Student/Teacher Ratio
20:1 first, second & third grade/acceptable range 18-24
24:1 fourth grade/acceptable range 22-28
28:1 fifth & sixth/acceptable range 26-32
*150 students per day/per teacher
*Class size varies depending upon subject

For the gt classes, the class size used to be smaller. Now, to avoid misguided charges of elitism and avoid drawing unwanted attention from the budget hounds, the gt class sizes seem be in the same range as the traditional classes.

DS6 goes to a charter STEM school that limits its calls size to 20. This stays the same all the way up through 8th grade. The public K classes that I observed the year before DS6 started school were around 28 per class if I recall correctly. They tried to "differentiate" in those classrooms but like ColinsMum said- it really ended up being a "high" "medium" and "low" version of the same lesson. None of them was even remotely aimed at DS's level (and that was a year BEFORE he started K). His teacher this year was able to do things on a much more individual level than we would have seen in the huge public school classes. We're VERY happy with our school.

Our kindergarten class size topped out at 21 when my kids started school, but I think it's increased since then. The # of students per class goes up again as the grade levels increase. My youngest dd is in a private school which aims for the same # per class as the public schools and my oldest (ds) is in a private school which caps the class size at 18 (but he's been in a class that's less than 18). Although we've never had our kids in a classroom as large as the new OP's classroom will be, our experience has been that the teacher's style and personality, combined with the make-up of the students in the classroom are more of a challenge for a student who needs differentiation than class size. DS had a real mixed bag of experience with different teachers (and many of the same students in his class) through elementary school. There were a few kids who had behavior challenges that some of the teachers were able to handle, other teachers weren't on top of it and weren't in control. The teachers who weren't in control tended to have rather chaotic classrooms, and the teachers who had an ability to cope with challenges in the classroom were able to differentiate no matter the classroom size (if they believed in differentiation)... which is another hurdle - the school my kids were in for elementary tended to want everyone to be right there in the middle of the crowd in terms of achievement and ability. It took me a long time to realize though, that even with differentiation, our ds was so far out there in terms of thinking differently and grasping concepts quickly that differentiating to his ability level just wasn't practical in a regular classroom.

polarbear

19 in first grade. The teachers' union contract mandates no more than 25 per class. As soon as one classroom hits 26 they are required to hire a new teacher and split the classes in that grade, even if it happens after the school year is underway.

Believe it or not, the research findings on this are not that strong. I should see if I can look them up. I know it sounds unbelievable and my instincts tell me otherwise, too. However, my DD got a better education in a class of 18 than in a class of 11.

ETA: OKay, so there is one large study (Project STAR) that showed some decent effects for grades K-3. Other than that, the effects are quite mixed. Florida implemented a class size limit at great expense. Thus far there have been no clear positive effects: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/press-releases/pr-pepg-research-may10

The STAR project seemed to involve classes I'd think of as genuinely small (13-17) - is it maybe the case that some of the other research that hasn't shown an effect has been looking at larger classes? That's what I remember from some of the research I've seen, although it isn't something I've looked into properly. I think it would be tricky, because clearly small classes are going to be automatically better - at best, they might be better if the teacher takes advantage of the extra time/student available, and that takes time and effort to learn (if it's possible at all).

My own impression/hunch of how the small classes work at DS's school is that the most important thing is not really what happens in class, so much as the effect on the teachers' planning and general energy level. If it is easier to teach a smaller class, more of the teacher's energy is left for addressing the difficult problems we want teachers to address, like how best to help each child. DS's school also has a no-homework policy which surely also helps (less marking!) - but the thing I most appreciate there is that they do seem to have time and energy to be genuinely interested in thinking about how to help DS. I can't help but think that if each teacher was dealing with twice as many children, this would be less the case!

I have also heard/read that. I think there must be some threshold size for a class where if you go beyond it, there are just too many kids in the class. 35? 40? 100? Where does it end??
We had 25 kids per class this year in grade school and 20 the year before. I haven't noticed a difference in terms of the quality of teaching. There will be 35 kids in the gifted 4th grade class next year; my son is two grade levels ahead so hopefully it doesn't matter.
California ranks 47th out of 50 states in funding schools, and it is pretty obvious. Our school has little PE, so we pay $2000 a year for the swim team. There is little art, so we pay for art lessons at the local art center. There is little music, so we pay for private piano lessons, etc. I don't know how the kids do whose parents can't/aren't able to pay for the extras that we do.

Clarifying--you meant to type "aren't" going to be automatically better, right?

The FL class size amendment keeps classes at 18 for K-3, IIRC, so they're right around the same size as the STAR project classes. I read some pretty valid criticisms of the STAR project--it was not blinded, so teachers in the small classes may have been working harder to produce an effect, and parents could and did get their kids moved to the smaller classes on request.

A similar lack of effect occured in CA after they reduced class size, but it did not go down to STAR levels. Actually, aren't CA class sizes quite large?? Maybe they only did it in some areas. One theory there is that there was a paucity of qualified teachers when the sudden rush on hiring occurred after they decided to reduce class size. One thing we absolutely DO know is that teacher quality matters--a lot. The research on that is very strong.