Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion 5 Levels of Gifted Sharing Thread

I think the book doesn't have all that much going for it other than being pretty interesting and getting the idea out there that there are indeed levels of giftedness, which is pretty important. If you look at the IQ #s and descriptions, though, they're all over the place in the same level. I do think Level 1 and Level 5 probably have more validity and sense to them than the 3 middle levels.

If I was going to hazard a guess, DD and DS are surely somewhere in the levels 2-4 range, but that's about all I can tell you, really. DD8 was a pretty showy toddler--500+ words, the full alphabet (upper and lower), all colors, shapes, numbers, and a LOT of bird and plant names by 18 months. She memorized tons and tons of lengthy books in her early twos and threes. She had a lot of sight words by 18-24 months, too. But she actually didn't read till early 5, though she then took off and was reading 3rd and 4th grade chapter books within a few months. She appears HG now in 2nd grade and is also highly artistic and a gifted writer. She is good at math and science as well, but not a math whiz or anything. I am confident she is not PG, though I thought she might be when she was small.

DS was a significantly less showy toddler. He talked later, though still early; he knew all the toddler "stuff" 6-8 months later. He did have the exact same knack for memorizing books. And he learned chess at 3, easily and rather well. In fact he's yet to find a child's game he can't learn (admittedly, I haven't tried him on something like Monopoly, but chess is hard!) He is actually obsessed with games (please, someone, come over and play games with him). He is now reading quite well--probably early 2nd grade level? I forget what actual grade level is, since DD has always been so far ahead. He has an incredibly encylopedic knowledge in his area of interest (the ocean). Interestingly, his one slightly weaker area may be math; I remember DD being a little more of a "natural" with math at this age (intuitively understanding things like multiplication, for instance). I'm beginning to suspect that he may be in the EG range. However, he is easier-going than his sister and may choose a somewhat different path.

I have not read the book, and it has been a while since I looked at the different levels. I appreciate that it attempts to shows how IQ and other factors like personality, drive, interest and exposure marry to parent milestones in varying degrees of precocity. I do think it would be very fun to read some of the anecdotes in the book.

I could look them up again and try to parse the specific levels, but think it is easier to just say our DD(3.5) is very advanced in language. She was an early talker (7months), spoke in complex sentences early (18months), was determined to figure out reading early (2.5), and now reads at a very late second grade level. And, while she has some interest in numbers (enumerating at 2.5 along with simple adding and subtracting, and now adding and subtracting in her head as well as skip counting 2s,5s,10s,1/2s) I think it is way too early to tell with all that. And, she hates puzzles, so...

And, I would not be surprised in the least if she did not test in the gifted range at all.

All I know is I have a language oriented child who spoke in paragraphs well before she turned two, loves reading, has a certain sensitivity about her, is extremely quick-witted, has a knack for memorizing and a few other splinter skills, and is one of the most imaginative children I have ever met.

Specific anecdotes:

-She spoke in grammatically correct sentences from the beginning.
-Something she said when she was about 24 months:
"What was dat? I landed on something. well, whatever it was, I will find it so I can make this area safer to jump."
-She memorized all 44 presidents in their order in a matter of a couple of days when she was 2.5 after visiting a museum exhibit.
-Before she was 2.5 she could decode almost any word spelled out to her aurally.
-She can play by herself for hours at a time and make up elaborate scenarios with a few close imaginary friends.
-She changes words and phrases in poetry she has memorized to fit different situations seemingly without any effort.
-She has always been good at sequencing things. Season, months, days, time, birthdays, ages, history, and she has a very precocious understanding of the course of life. She knows that with every birthday she is growing up, that she will go to school soon, that she can drive when she is 16, that she is an adult when she is 18, that she can go to college when she is 18, that when she has a baby I will be the grandma, etc.

This is pretty common in some elementary schools in some professional suburbs North of Dallas. Some have up to six kids per school > 99.9 on the MAP by 3rd grade and they are usually grouped together in the same class. A handful are scoring > 15 on the AMC8 in the 4th grade.

As for Ruf. She has seen a lot of bright kids in her career and would be in a position to know what she is talking about.

Some traits of level 4/5 Mr W does not have, but others he has in spades. His IQ test, part of which he refused to cooperate on, place him right where she said he would be. And the two achievement tests he has taken placed him 4-5 years beyond his age.

Like any guide, it has to be taken in with your situation in mind.

I don't have any experience with her. She is probably excellent at identifying gifted kids when she evaluates them in person.

However, gifted kids vary a great deal. In our 4th grade class, there is a child (not DS) that scored 23 on AMC8. There were exactly 9 students nationwide in 5th grade (or lower) that received a higher grade. And this child is young for his grade, and so should probably be in 3rd grade. Yet, other than math, I don't think this child would meet many of Ruf's criteria for gifted.

Thanks for all the sharing, I do love reading the anecdotes. :o)

And yes, this:

We have just been through this conversation with my son's school. The way they described it to us is that achievement is highly influenced by environment, but aptitude/intelligence is less so (while still influenced). For our son, his aptitude/intelligence was unlike anything they have ever seen, but that there are other schools in the city where there might have been students with his achievement levels and a lower aptitude.

I was shocked when we looked at the grade level standards for math for our state. Our son has some math skills at age 6 (kindergarten) that don't even get mentioned in the standards until middle school, but he has other areas that have never been introduced, so there are gaping holes. For example, telling time is a kindergarten standard. We never bothered to teach him to tell time, so he needed to learn it in kindergarten this year--even though he can add unlike fractions in his head.

Hi! I'm still new to the forum, and hope my etiquette is ok with this, but I just noticed from 1111's post that your kids are bilingual? I am trying to connect with other parents of bilingual gifted kids (my DD3 is ESL, now a balanced Spanish/English bilingual) and noticed on another post that you are pursuing testing at GDC-- I would be super curious as to how your kids experience there was being bilingual? Can I send you a PM? Are you supposed to ask first? Trying to figure out the forum etiquette. Thanks so much.

Yes, but what IQs do those kids have? There's simply no way that most children at the lower end of moderately gifted are 2-5 grade levels advanced by age 6. This is the sort of inconsistency that's rife in Dr. Ruf's system and helps to make the entire thing questionable. (ETA: I guess I could see it, if she were running into lots of children who don't test well, but that still doesn't show that her results are accurate in my opinion either.)

I think, like ultramarina, that it gets an important idea out there, that children with different enough IQ scores may be very different in important ways that people wouldn't otherwise understand from the numbers. However, the whole concept of levels itself is flawed, and the book ignores a good deal of accepted wisdom about gifties. So it's heavily flawed, though not worthless and still groundbreaking in its own way.

Berkeleymom, I sent you a PM.