Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion 5 Levels of Gifted Sharing Thread

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Haven't read the book. I'm familiar with the overview and that there's a website.

My 18 m old says stuff like "here a go.  It for you.". When Franklins bike was ran over by an icecream truck on tv she said, "Look.  Bike. Uh-oh.".  The biggest sentence was the other day my son, the hubby, and I rode our bikes down the bike path and stopped at a playground with my daughter in the bicycle trailer.  She said, "I ride my bike to a playground", as she climbed out of the trailer.   She has to watch that show Pocoyo (I have it dvr'd). Although she likes many shows that is "her show".   I've seen her call a written 3 a three and a 6 a six out with no context clues and a letter s.  I'm really bad at keeping track of this stuff and life goes on.  If she says a number she holds up fingers and wiggles them like she's counting, but not the right amount (copying brother).  I've heard her say several numbers in a row at different times and large chunks of the abc song and many nursery rhyme songs.
She told my my dress was pretty on Easter.  
She might be potty training herself, I'm not sure.  She asks to go and I set her on the pot she has passed gas every time and then got up every time she's asked.  I can't tell if she's trying to potty train or playing pretend on the potty.  A lot of times she dresses herself, but usually not completely.   The other day she had a shirt & shoes and was saying "outside".  I said, "you need some pants".  She got some of her brothers pants and was walking around the house in them and she had to hold them up the whole time.  (giggle) That's better than when my son came out of his sisters room wearing a dress one day.  I said, "don't you wear your sisters clothes you're too big you'll break them don't you ever do that again!". But not until after I snapped a few pictures.  He posed real pretty, the little ham!  

So cute, thanks for sharing. And I do think it sounds like she's trying to potty train!

I will be a bit of a contrarian. I first reviewed the RUF levels probably about 3 years ago, at which time DS would have been 7 years old. My thought then, as now, is that the guidelines are far too general to determine where a specific child actually belongs. Its potential for error is largest for a gifted child born from non-gifted parents that are wondering for where their child strands.

Here is where my DS10 fits among the various levels:

Possible contra-indications of giftedness:
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* Did not start speaking until past 24 months, perhaps close to 30 months.
* Is well adjusted socially, and was elected student council rep for his class.

Level 3 Attributes:
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* Could solve 35+ piece puzzles by age 2

Level 4 Attributes:
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* Loved books as babies, paid very close attention
* Started reading somewhere around 3-4
* Has read all the books on science (particularly physics and genetics) in the children's section of the library, and is now working on history.

Level 5 Attributes:
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* Made letters and numbers as a 1-year old using straws, toothpicks, etc.
* Spoke with near adult level complexity when he finally started speaking

Other Attributes Not on Ruf List:
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* Has mathematical skills exceeding the average college bound high school senior.
* Is nationally ranked in chess.

So given all this, where does my son fit on the Ruf scale? I have no idea, and until we feel the urgency to get him tested for Davidson or Johns Hopkins Study of Exceptional Talent, the exact measurement matters little to me now. However, I have the reassurance of knowing that I was identified as gifted as a child, and that DS has abilities that vastly exceed my own.

However, if I was not gifted, and my son was say 3 years old, and I saw the Ruf scale, I might have thought my son's talents were not exceptional.

I don't want to post so much personal info, but I can say that despite having an quite far into level 5 IQ, and several traits from level five, my oldest (the only one I have numbers for) also has traits from all five levels, and is missing traits from levels one and two (not through a disability or delay, but just temperament).

And things like this, for IQ of 130:
. I mean, really? To hear the teachers at our school tell it, it's very rare for a child to be more than one or possibly two years ahead in math at six, let alone for there to be a couple in each class who are doing fifth grade math.

I got nothin'. My youngest was a fan of Sylvia Plath at five, and debating astronomical facts with the museum docents at seven, but didn't learn to tie her shoes until 12 and still can't figure out the front door lock. Isn't asynchronicity supposed to be a hallmark of gifted kids?

As for "most of these children are a full two to five years beyond grade level by age six"...a lot of kids I know are there, because I know a lot of homeschoolers. Not that homeschoolers are preternaturally bright-- but because IME, they tend not to worry about "the proper time to learn about fractions is age eight", or whatever. Johnny's curious about fractions? Good on him-- let's teach it.

I found the Ruf's book fascinating, but I take it with a huge grain of salt. Comparing kids can be interesting, but not always that insightful.

Disclaimer: I've been a horrible mother in terms of writing down milestones. TERRIBLE. So the following are to the best of my memory... and memory isn't so good these days.

My 3-year-old was accepted at a gifted pre-K and a psychologist (and pediatrician) have said he is clearly very highly gifted. Just how gifted, it's too early to know. But he was reading by age 2, putting together 50 piece puzzles at 2, loves to make up silly songs and tell jokes. He's great at math, seemingly intuitive about it. He obsessed with space right now and knows more about planets and stars than most adults. He also still wets his pants. He is also incredibly stubborn and generally intense.

My 24 month old is a more laid back and easy-going kind of kid ( so far ). She started (seemingly spontaneously) reading at around 19 or 20 months. Actually reading - as in picking up a book she hasn't seen before (an easy reader, but still...) and being able to read all the words and even take a stab a big words by knowing the sounds the letters make. THAT was a surprise to see, especially since we never "work with" her on anything. We read books to her, of course... but she decoded things herself. She is extremely verbal, starting putting together two words at 12 months and longer sentences by 15 months. She knew many colors, the alphabet, and other such things before the age of one. Could count to 20 (and also backwards from 10) shortly after her first birthday. (We believe her big brother taught her that "trick") It seems likely she'll be very gifted. But as a barely 2-year-old she is really still just a baby. But she definitely gets a lot of looks in public, and I always feel like I need to protect her from being a sideshow.

(Personal side note: I talk very openly on this forum about my kids, but no where else. Still... I feel weird just disclosing the above even though this is basically anonymous. Anyone else feel uncomfortable sometimes talking about these things, even in an accepting and understanding environment like this?)

Anyway, if the Ruf's levels based on milestones were to be believed, both of my kids are likely up there at level 4 or 5... but I really really really have a hard time believing that for some reason. (Maybe it's just the statistics giving me doubts. I mean... what are the odds?) So much can change. Maybe they are both just early bloomers and things will level out a bit in a few years.

I've been recording DDs milestones religiously. I doubt my second child will have this sort of list!

She is 17 months now and seems to be between level 3 and 4, except she doesn't really talk much (and when she does she is very hard to understand). If we replace words with ASL signs, she is just fine. She has over 200 of those and makes short sentences with them.

Her fine motor skills always seemed to develop along with her mind, but lately I feel like her mind has outpaced her motor skills. She's mastered all her chunky and knob puzzles, understands jigsaws, but literally can't work the small jigsaw pieces we have yet. She gets frustrated and flings things when that happens. She'll ignore stuff she gets really frustrated with for weeks, so I try to give her things that she can actually master with some practice.

It is really hard to figure out what she knows with just the sign language, but she seems to know quite a few letters, maybe some colors, and I can't yet tell if she gets numbers. I was spelling out words tonight from the books we read before bed and pointing to the letters and she was definitely paying attention and trying to understand. She doesn't say much, but she said some half words tonight and signed them as we flipped through a picture book. I love hearing her little voice.

She has 13 signing time DVDs memorized. During the ABC song yesterday, she was signing Caterpillar when they were singing about B for Baseball, then signed Diaper while they were still on C and so on. I sang the "X song" to her without saying X and she knew the tune and words and signed X when I asked. A month or so ago I said "pretend" and she started dancing, signed pretend and imagination and started just singing "Ah!" in what I swear was the correct key for the imagination song.

Either I'm playing these DVDs way too much, or that is evidence of a pretty good memory for a 17 month old? I think I'm going to be shocked with what she has to tell me when she finally starts to talk!

I know she recognizes most shapes, but we only know signs for moon and star. She knows a star shape is a star, but also that the twinkling dots in the sky are stars. She has asked me if my diamond earrings are also stars and asked if all the freckles on my arms were stars, too. (I say asked, because she does this little "Ah?" while signing the word haha)

She is also asking constantly about boys and girls and men and women. It seems like she is trying really hard to understand gender. She uses the mom and dad signs because we haven't taught her man and woman and I guess she thinks they can be generalized since grandpa and grandma are nearly the same.
This all may be normal toddler connection making, but it stood out to me.

I have no idea if the book is accurate, but I have found it to be an interesting resource and I go back and look at it every few months.

(Ps. Sorry for any typos. It is very late here! Off to bed.)

Edit: I re-read some of the above and DD knows this stuff, but she is being exposed to it. I show her it and it is on her DVDs she loves. But besides knowledge she did do a lot of things very early. Sitting unsupported at 4 months, 1st steps at 8 months, responding to requests like "kiss mommy" by 20 weeks old (have that on video! lol), looking through books alone by 8 months, and "reading" books to herself before 12 months by signing everything she had signs for.

It's been a while since I reviewed ruf levels, but they seemed 'ok' and pretty thought provoking. I didn't see a lot to help with the sort of child who is more of the daydreamer-creative type, with fun ideas and a few that blow you out of the water from time to time, so have not paid too much attention. Not sure if that is due to mild learning diffs for ds11, but that may be. (the ruf levels don't speak to that at all, that I recall)

My dd6 is more of an 'obvious' gifty; hitting these milestones pretty much on the level 3/4 range, but has the social butterfly thing going too. It is confusing, actually.

I read the book when DS4.5 was about 4. He falls into the 4 category. I must say though that had I read the book before he was the age of 2.5 he would not have been. The earlier milestones does not match a level 4 but the older ones do. Could be because both my kids are bilingual so the language was not AS accelerated. He did speak in 5-10 word sentences by age 2. Knew all the sounds of letters by then too. At age 2yr 7mo he started to read easy readers and about a month after that he counted to over 1000 and to 100 in his second language.

Now he is writing short stories (incredible spelling), just starting multiplication at KUMON and has incredible knowledge about geography etc.

DS29mo seems to be about a level 3 right now. He is starting to read some words in the past month. He has always had an incredible sense of humor and would tell funny jokes before the age of 2. Even before that he would express jokes just not as verbally. He is very different from his brother though in the sense that he is more imaginative, emotional, intuitive etc.
His bother was more fact based and VERY driven to learn.

I too think it is best to take the book with a grain of salt. It could give you an idea, but that's about it.