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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,640 Likes: 1
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,640 Likes: 1 |
Which implies that it's a sort-of IQ test with a very low ceiling. I say "sort of" IQ test because it measures knowledge that no one is born with (e.g. vocabulary, geometry) as much as stuff that's more innate (e.g. the ability to see relationships). I think of tests like the SAT and GRE as being very good discriminators of averageness. 99% of SAT scores on each of the Critical Reading, Math, or Writing sections are below 780 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/SAT-Percentile_Ranks_2011.pdf , which means that someone scoring 780 or higher is in the top 1%, which cannot fairly be described as average or slightly above average.
"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,172
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Joined: May 2009
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The free ride on NMSF was why I went to a Tier 1 state school vs an Ivy or Caltech. And my smaller scholarships did not get deducted from that free ride. What a deal. A lot of schools do this today. There are some public schools that have more total NMSFs than any private school. Here is a list. http://excelcollegeprep.com/pdf/scholarships.pdfCool, thanks. If I recall correctly, my NMSF was based on my PSAT scores, not my SAT scores. Is that the way is still goes? I, too, was not told that there was any scholarship possibility based on getting this. It was just a notation next to my name @ graduation. As I recall, my high school had a lot of NMSFs as well. I only applied to UC schools (University of CA) and was so set on UC Berkeley that I insisted to my mom that I wasn't going to college if I didn't get in there which about gave her a coronary. Fortunately I did get in, but I'm guessing that the reason the scholarship angle wasn't played up @ my high school is b/c none of the UC or Cal State schools are on the list of schools that offer scholarships to NMSFs and most of us were going to in-state public universities. eta: in looking closer, I do see that some of the Cal State schools are on the list, but I didn't apply to places like Cal State Longbeach. Oh well, something to think about for dd should she do well.
Last edited by Cricket2; 04/22/12 06:49 AM.
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Joined: May 2009
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... but fwiw if memory serves me - back when I was in high school, re the National Merit Scholarships - when you took the SAT (or PSAT?) you qualified as a semi-finalist - and then in order to become a finalist a company that sponsored a scholarship had to "find" you - you had to be interested in their line of work and it also helped to have a relative who worked for the company or have some other means of standing out other than just the test scores. There was more to NMSFs than simply scoring above a certain point on the test - actual scholarship $ had to exist somewhere for each scholarship, and that usually came with some restrictions in addition to test scores. I remember that at our high school, the kids who got NMFS weren't the kids who were necessarily at the very top of the class in terms of achievement... and there were kids (including me) who scored very very highly on the tests but were only "semi-finalists". Wow, that I did not know either. No one contacted me following my NMSF score and I just assumed that the kids who were NMF had scored higher than those of us with NMSF next to our names.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 154
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 154 |
I got a full tuition scholarship from our flagship State U as a NMSF but that was 20+ years ago. No idea if they still do this. Also, tuition was an incredible $16/semester hour back then when I started. When I left it was all the way up to $28 which caused quite an outcry. They were practically giving away higher education back then. What happened I wonder?
All of the NMSF ratio discussions caused me to take a look at NMSF at the local competitor private schools. I guess our small private school is in line with the large public schools for NMSF per capita based on this thread's discussion but our direct competition private schools are drubbing us. (We have had 3 2005-11 with 70-75 graduets per year.) One has had 30 NMSF from 2006-10 with graduating classes of 85-90 and the other has had 22 in the past 3 years with 92-97 graduates per year. If the SAT is an IQ test does that mean all the smart kids in town go to these schools? Their numbers are insanely high!
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Which implies that it's a sort-of IQ test with a very low ceiling. I say "sort of" IQ test because it measures knowledge that no one is born with (e.g. vocabulary, geometry) as much as stuff that's more innate (e.g. the ability to see relationships). I think of tests like the SAT and GRE as being very good discriminators of averageness. 99% of SAT scores on each of the Critical Reading, Math, or Writing sections are below 780 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/SAT-Percentile_Ranks_2011.pdf , which means that someone scoring 780 or higher is in the top 1%, which cannot fairly be described as average or slightly above average. If I *recenter* what I got back in the day, my verbal score, which was 40 points lower than my math score rises to 20 points above my math score (which remained unchanged). The math score really wasn't changed.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 30
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 30 |
Hello,
Our local public high school has class size of about 250, and this year had 15 NMSF, which is typical for the school (strong district). This is 6% of the population, which is above average. Looks like nationally (see in the quotes below), 1% of PSAT-takers become semi-finalists (3% are recognized, including the letters of commendation). So for a class size of 75, I guess it would be "average" to have 2 semi-finalists every 3 years, but a couple of letters-of-commendation-winners each year.
"Of the 1.5 million entrants, about 50,000 qualify for recognition. More than two-thirds of those qualified receive Letters of Commendation; about a third of the 50,000 become Semifinalists, about 94% of whom go on to become Finalists. Over half of the Finalists are selected to receive scholarships underwritten by corporations and business organizations, colleges and universities, and by NMSC with its own funds".
I agree that with the advent of massive test-prep, tutors, classes, taking the test multiple times, etc, the true meaning of the results are more questionable than ever, but agree with all the posters who say that it is crazy for the school to discount the SATS.....whether or not they really are a true indicator of anything important, they certainly matter!!
Additionally, while I don't want to think that a lot of school time is spent "teaching to the test", there are lots of important parts of the SAT. On the verbal portion, for example, vocabulary is a critical part. Who doesn't think that developing a rich vocabulary is an important part of education?
So I think you (OP) are right to question the administration when they downplay the SAT. It's not the end-all-be-all, but it does matter. (But I also agree that I'm sure YOUR children will do great if it's the right environment for them!!!).
Last edited by C squared; 04/23/12 06:08 AM. Reason: typo
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