Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Ivies cheaper than some state schools

I thought that too, Dude. The quote sounds a little, uh, uptight to me. (NIGHTMARE SCENARIO!!!) But I have no experience with applying to grad school. I assume that's mostly what that guy is talking about, though perhaps for very competitive positions elsewhere (entry level analyst at a management consulting firm or something?), employers do really scrutinize GPAs.

I call BS on this article.


Poor students. Hmm. Later they talk about middle class. Ie a family making 130K a year. If that family has any equity in their home, the school will expect them to cough some of it up.


I am highly skeptical of this article because it mixes apples and oranges. Harvard tuition is 36K a year and then on top of that is living expenses. SO the real cost is 50K a year or more.

As someone who turned down an Ivy and Caltech to go to a state school, I did the math back then with tuition 1/3 the cost today and even with some hefty support, I still could not swing it. I do not see how a kid could to it today, either, without going into serious debt.

The real scandal is why the UC system charges so much. IIRC the number of admin positions is greater than the faculty positions and many of the faculty do not teach. Limit admins to 15% of the faculty and require every faculty member to teach three courses a semester. Require every course to have at least 10 students. That would cut the tuition by 60-70%.

Austin, a family member of mine is employed at a UC university and would definitely agree with your analysis.

Anyway, you are saying equity matters while it was stated upthread that it doesn't, at least for Harvard. I must say, I'd like to know the deal on equity, since our house is certainly our largest asset here (we bought before the bubble and live in a market that has suffered less than most).

If, as stated below, the average grant for Harvard students receiving financial aid is $41K, and the total cost is $54.5K, including room and board, the net cost is $13.5K , which is probably less than the out-of-pocket cost at some state schools. The article says families of students on financial aid are paying $12K on average.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/03/record-for-financial-aid/
Harvard College will increase financial aid for undergraduates to a record $172 million for academic year 2012-2013. Since 2007, Harvard’s investment in financial aid has climbed by more than 78 percent, significantly outpacing increases in tuition.
More than 60 percent of students at the College are expected to receive need-based grant aid. Families with students on financial aid will pay on average $12,000 toward the cost of tuition, room, board, and fees, with an average grant of more than $41,000.

“Need-blind admissions, supported by generous financial aid, is the bedrock of Harvard’s effort to attract the most talented undergraduates in America and across the globe, regardless of their ability to pay,” said Dean Michael D. Smith of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences. “A student’s economic circumstances should never be a barrier to attending Harvard College.”

Since 2004, Harvard has dramatically reduced the amount that families are expected to pay to send a child to Harvard College. Harvard has a policy of “zero contribution” from families with normal assets making $65,000 or less annually. Families with incomes up to $150,000 will pay from zero to 10 percent of their income, depending on individual family circumstances. Families with incomes above $150,000 may still qualify for need-based assistance.

For students not receiving need-based aid, the total undergraduate package cost is scheduled to increase 3.5 percent, to $54,496. Students, applicants, and their families can estimate their costs by using the recently launched

They're still punishing savers for whatever reason under their logic.

It makes more sense to spend your money under their aid system.

Check out this post by Val.

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....cs/126424/Re_Wasted_Time.html#Post126424

You can do it yourself. The estimated cost is 23K per year for 130K income and a reasonable amount of equity after Harvard ponies up.

http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/

You can play around with the various buttons to see what they expect you do dip into.

Given that most Tier 1 State schools and quite a few smaller Liberal Arts schools give NMSF a free ride tuition-wise, the discrepancy becomes even more glaring.

And "poor" kids get pell grants (5500 per year) and other help when they go to state schools.

See here:



So again, its not an apple to apple

Best I can tell, a "poor" NMSF going to a Tier 1 state school will spend about 6K per year to attend out of pocket. That's 24K vs 23K x 4 = 92K for Harvard. That makes the state school kid 68K ahead when that is said and done. Assuming the Harvard cost was a loan, then the net present cost of the Harvard degree would really be around 140K.

She mistakenly included equity in her primary residence, which Harvard excludes, as I explained at http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....cs/126438/Re_Wasted_Time.html#Post126438 . According to kcab in this thread, "Equity in primary residence is not counted in the EFC (estimated family contribution)", so excluding home equity is not unique to Harvard.


Harvard financial aid does not include loans.

http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do
"We do not consider home equity or retirement accounts as resources in our determination of a family contribution, and aid packages do not include any loans. A typical student may receive over $150,000 in Harvard scholarship assistance over four years and the majority of students receiving scholarship are able to graduate debt-free."

If the bright people on this forum have misconceptions about financial aid, I bet that many students from less-educated families are making decisions based on incomplete information.

I appreciate the information. To be fair, though, my oldest child is in 2nd grade, so I haven't looked into this yet in any really serious way. (Yes, yes--saving is good. Etc.) The sole decision we have made is to put the money we're saving for college in our names rather than the kids'. We also semi-jokingly discuss limiting our income. I could make a lot more than I do, but prefer to work PT when the kids are little. There will come a time when I need to consider going back to work FT. If I do so, depending on what job I take, I will probably bump us from middle-class (true middle-class, as defined by the census...130K is NOT middle class) to UMC, which may actually be stupid in terms of college costs.

Ultramarina, the colleges only look at the year before your child enters college in terms of income (they certainly do look at the other assets you have accumulated). So starting midway through your child's junior year of high school is when that income starts to be inconvenient in terms of qualifying for need based aid. Of course... that is when your instints tell you that you need to work MORE because tuition is staring you in the face (and there is that nagging retirement account, and you can actually start to see that horizon more clearly as well by the time your kids go to college).

Good move to put the money in your name (colleges consider much less available for their costs from your assets than from your child's assets, and there is no longer any significant tax benefit in keeping assets in your kids' names, either).

I attended the University of Kansas for my undergrad (playing for NCAA championship tonight--woohoo!) and MIT for grad school.

For me, getting top grades at the University of Kansas was much harder than MIT. Perhaps it was the competitiveness of the honors track I took during undergrad, or perhaps I was more mature during grad school, but MIT was much easier.