Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion stronger motivation trumped higher IQ

I don't know if I think DD's school (which does not draw from a particularly wealthy population as far as I can figure; those kids don't seem to choose to transfer to the school because they're already enrolled in the creme de la creme public or in privates)is grooming kids to be part of the Ivy League elite. I actually think they are emphasizing this leadership business to make the "gifted" part sound more palatable, somehow. It doesn't work, IMO.

Anyway. I read the article. I think the author's parents have a bit to answer for.


Yeah, that's not your college's fault. That's your parents' fault, and it's your fault, for having a very limited imagination.


I didn't go to an Ivy, but I did go to a prestigious small liberal arts school, as did my husband, as did many of my friends. Maybe it's a function of the people I chose to befriend, but on the whole, we are not locked into this limited mode of thinking. Few of us are wealthy, but most of us love what we do.

Mostly what that essay did for me was convince me that I don't want my kids to go to Yale.

I thought the political commentary was starting to sound a little trite, like the e-mails that are in circulation, which are funny, don't get me wrong...that's why I forwards them between different sides of the family just so I can see all the funny ones going around. (sad to say, I'll be teaching my kids Grammer soon).

I couldn't read the original article. I clicked on it a few times the last couple of days and it just said error 404, page not found. On topic itself, it lends itself to the support of redshirting. Lead by example would be getting your work done and advancing so that your work is at your equevelant level. Let their success be our inspiration (some FFA slogan). It seems like this "leadership" idea could be turned around to mean "cultivating a big fish in a little pond". (redshirting). The best case scenario, according to popular opinion, would be engaged students working hard together developing a sort of positive peer pressure. Those dynamics lend themselves to showing off a kind of group dynamic that they can use as a template to know what leadership is in future situations.

I'm going to blame the awkward wording of this post on the sick, teething baby that didn't let me sleep last night. Is mommy-brain a real thing?

Mm, my previous post seems to have been lost in the digital ether. I didn't mean to make political commentary, and am actually an independent voter (and FWIW like John McCain quite a bit in some aspects, though I didn't wind up voting for him). I just think politics is an excellent example of a pursuit where intelligence is trumped by leadership and charisma far too often.

I would never claim that "high IQ negates leadership", or "make a broad sweep and say that CEOs and politicians generally have low IQs". I'm merely remarking that they don't seem to me to generally have the highest IQs, and that sometimes their apparent intelligence is quite low. It's nothing more than an affirmation that yes, intelligence often takes a back seat in such occupations.

Here are the principles of leadership. I read them once a week.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/leadership.htm

Anyone can take these principles and apply them to their own field and be successful.

A 21 year old nearly illiterate Marine Lance Corporal with a year under his belt leading a squad overseas can outlead a whole boatload of Yalies.

Leaders are made by hard work, they are not born nor created by any school, least of all by the Ivy colleges. The most dangerous "leader" is one filled with arrogance, entitlement, and fancy ideas, ie your average Ivy League grad.

Austin-

I liked that link, particularly this part:

Marines by nature are inquisitive. To promote efficiency and morale, a leader should inform the Marines in his unit of all happenings and give reasons why things are to be done. This, of course, is done when time and security permit. Informing your Marines of the situation makes them feel that they are a part of the team and not just a cog in a wheel. Informed Marines perform better and, if knowledgeable of the situation, can carry on without your personal supervision. The key to giving out information is to be sure that the Marines have enough information to do their job intelligently and to inspire their initiative, enthusiasm, loyalty, and convictions.

My husband was an army first sergeant and we had discussions about whether or not it is important to learn to blindly follow rules without asking why and never asking if they could do something differently if they think there might be a better way to do it. He said when he was a first sergeant he wanted his soldiers to know why they had to do things, that it important for the reasons mentioned above. These discussions all started with our public school's insistence that our kid should learn to color in the lines because they said to do it without explaining why it was important. My husband said that he always told his soldiers why when he was teaching them because it was very important. My husband was promoted very quickly because of his leadership ability and intelligence and it didn't matter that he came from a poor family and worked his way through high school. Maybe his strong motivation came from being poor. He made a higher score on tests than a lot of people who had a better education. I think he, like a lot of smart people, learned more on his own than at school anyway because he was highly motivated. His mother was motivated to make sure her kids developed a love of reading before she died. That was her legacy. Her youngest daughter was about 5 when she died and her life was not easy but she worked hard and became a college professor. She had to have been highly motivated to do that but then I guess she would have to have a high IQ also.

My husband sometimes had to deal with officers who were well educated and arrogant but the army looked at his record and promoted him based on that. They were more interested in what he could do than how much education he had.

My son is very motivated because he wants to make his dad proud and with his disabilities I think it is that motivation that will get him through more than his IQ although the high IQ will certainly help.

Thanks Lori.

My dad did very well in the Army for many of the same reasons.

I am constantly amazed at the lack of leadership I see around me and in many organizations. Most people have no training or mentoring and just flounder.

The other key trait other than leadership, is imagination to see how things can be improved.

I guess that the importance of leadership and related skills in the sciences has probably grown greatly in the last 100 years, but is still going to be regulated by the extent to which a person would need to lead a research team, engage in fundraising, etc. Motivation is always highly important, and so is creativity. The ideal industry or political leader would possess all of these traits plus high intelligence.

One bit of curriculum that is missing from a college degree program is leadership training, but the military expends quite a bit of emphasis on it.

In addition, the military is an awesome laboratory environment for someone wishing to learn about leadership, because it's a too-many-chiefs sort of situation, so not only do you get to learn about leadership, you also get to observe and experience a huge variety of leadership styles and methods.

Also, the military is really good at curing someone of a sense of entitlement... at least for enlisted folk.

And creating PTSD, which results in 100% service connected disability, and then they land in my office. That was earlier this week.

Also, the army results in blown off limbs, which then results in your wife divorcing you because you will not longer be able to achieve her dream of an "army career". One of my sister's pro-army friends (I grew up near the Army War College).

So, maybe you need to add an "in relative peacetime" to your statement. Once Afghanistan is finished, we will be back to that state again.

My point was that businesses and educators have something of value to learn from the military about leadership. I'm pretty sure businesses and educators have already learned "don't blow your people up."

It also goes without saying that not all military positions are on the front lines.