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Joined: Feb 2012
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While my son's scores on the WISC-IV are nowhere near as high as your son's, the pattern of highs and lows is very similar - high VCI, lower PRI, very low PSI. My son has significant fine motor deficits and some visual processing problems that are not picked up with an ordinary eye exam - left-sided visual neglect, scotopic sensitivity, problems with tracking and convergence, poor figure-ground discrimination, and so on. He also has formal diagnoses of Asperger's Syndrome and Disorder of Written Expression. My son just has problems with tracking and convergence but I am not quite sure that he has been well diagnosed from the visual point of view. Indeed, I am quite sure that visual problems play a major part in his dyslexia, but the specialists (seeing therapist and speech)do not really hear me on that ... I am not a specialist I do not know how it works in the US, but in France, specialists (and especially the doctors and professors) have the knowledge and you are just nothing for them (a bit caricatural but not very far from reality). So the game is to find the best ones and hope to be heard just a little bit. The few times I worked with people from North America I had the feeling to be heard even by well-known people in my working area. Kindergarten was miserable; he was constantly depressed and frustrated because everything was either too easy or too hard. This rapidly progressed to outright refusal or avoidance behavior when asked to do anything involving a writing task or really any visual or motor task that he didn't think he'd be able to do, or anything that he'd mastered so long ago that he felt it was insulting. He had a choice of trying to do the work and having evidence stare him in the face that he was incapable, or refusing and getting consequences for being disobedient, but not being ashamed of not being able to complete the written work acceptably (which he clearly saw was not difficult for others). He would rather have been seen as disobedient than as stupid. Refusing to work allowed him to preserve some shred of his self esteem, but at a huge cost. The consequences of being in this kind of a school situation were a big part of our decision to homeschool. I have the feeling that nothing is easy for my son at school. Kindergarten was not that bad for him, nevertheless, it was during this year that we truly realized that things were taking a bad turn and also that the teacher told us about giftedness (without her, maybe we would have still been in the ignorance, because we would not have considered that hypothesis). Also, during this year he often told us that he knew everything ... we just did not here him and said things like :"if that is easy, why don't you work ?" (actually we told him in French  ) MAy be he's behaving as you say concerning desobedience. Based on my experiences with my own child, "work" that is appropriate to the PSI level or that requires a lot of motor output or handwriting, but is not at or at least near the challenge point for the VCI and PRI level is a recipe for disaster. Well, I guess we are into that ...
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Raoul,
I unfortunately don't have time to read thoroughly all the replies since your last reply or to put together a well-thought out response at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that many of us here no doubt understand all too well how difficult life must be right now for your son, as well as for you. Although my ds does not have ADHD, he has a similar (although not quite as large) split between Processing Speed and the other portions of the WISC. Back when he was the age of your ds and we were just finding out what his challenges were life was just absolutely the pits at times - school was a mess, our son was beyond frustrated and anxious, and we (parents) were clueless. Although I can't help read enough at the moment to help with specific advice, I wanted to let you know - once you get past those first years of figuring out what's up, learning all you can about your child's challenges, and then advocating to get him what he needs at school - life really really does get much better. It's still very different than it would have been raising a neurotypical child, but you'll get back some of what seems lost right now.
Back in your original post you asked the question, how can you help raise your son's self-esteem - so for today, I'll go back to just answering that question. While you keep trying your best to understand his challenges, be sure to take time just to be with him, to read to him, to have fun playing with him - anything he loves to do.
polarbear Thank you polarbear. We have to believe in better future for our son (and for us too), and what you said help us.
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I give you much credit for all of your reading and translating. If I had to go on a French (or any other language!) site to get help it just would not happen. It is very impressive. Best of luck. Thank you, but I love English (due to music and movies mainly) and it is often a working language for me (reading and writing). So do not give me too much credit for that, even if it requires some efforts for me. Believe me if people in the US would have speak german, things would have be much harder for me.
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Yes, this is tremendously stressful on parents. This is why I advocate finding some respite help (someone to look after your son and give you a break sometimes)-- it doesn't have to be a tutor, anyone who can keep him safe and occupied can give you space to breathe. that's a very hard point for us. we have no family close to us and no close friends (at least who can understand our son behavior). Raoul, for my DS9 (who has Asperger's) ADHD meds alone would not work at all. The stimulant increases focus but also creates more anxiety-- which is intolerable. We found that our DS needs an SSRI (antidepressant) to decrease anxiety. This also helps him tolerate the ADHD med. If I had to live without one of these drugs, I would omit the ADHD med and keep the SSRI-- it has been very important for him to live with less anxiety, and he has flourished since we chose this path. I guess we had to think about that can you please give me the name of the active molecule of the SSRI (in PM, if you prefer), so that I can see if there is French equivalent. Anyway, giving medecine to my son is a kind of problem for me. I am so desperate giving him ritalin each morning. I know that it helps him and that is why I do it ... And now antidepressant (any way, it is not as "hard" as a psyschostimulant as methylphenidate). thnk you for your feeling about that. I will clearly think about that and try to discuss with the neurologist (if I succeed to speak with him). It will be important for him to know that he learns and thinks differently from other people; that he has some wonderful skills and abilities; and that his differences are not his fault. The sooner this becomes an accepted topic of conversation in your family, the better. My DS went through an awful time of blaming himself for his bad behavior; now he knows why, and it's easier for him to accept that he makes these mistakes sometimes. Very important for self-esteem. Many of the comments I had in this thread ended to that. You are probably right. We tried a few times to speak with DS about his presumed giftedness. It ended with him saying that his intelligence is useless. Nevertheless, I am again dealing with this issue with my wife and we will try again because we have now more experience in understanding how he behaves.
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raoulpetite,
regarding "We tried a few times to speak with DS about his presumed giftedness. It ended with him saying that his intelligence is useless. "
I’m going to try and write about this, but my wording might not be that translatable...
My daughter (age 8) started saying similar things last year. I came to believe that if she's looking at it from the school's perspective (and parent's perspective, since they are "forcing" the schoolwork) she might come to believe that her type of intelligence is useless in that environment. For example, such a rich imagination, or creativity. This is not rewarded in a standard educational philosophy.
I tried to find things that connect working adults to the type of intelligence that she is so strong at (building, creating, imagining). Sometimes DVDs have a “behind the scenes” special features where the adults are seen drawing, creating, voicing characters to create the whole production. My daughter loves these. Here are adults acting silly, creating voices, pretending...and look at the result.
LEGO has a DVD that came with the autumn 2011 LEGO club magazine with adults working “behind the scenes” at LEGO. It is great. The adults are “playing” with LEGOs at their desks, fixing structures at the playlands, creating instructions on their computers, testing the instructions. This even inspired my daughter to pay more attention to my nagging that she organize or “rein in” her LEGO pieces. More time for productivity, less time finding each piece.
Generally speaking my daughter does not accept blanket statements like “you are smart” or speaking about her intelligence. However, she does bask in specific comments about having a very good idea that improved how we do things, thinking of others and not herself, helping out with directions in the car. I believe she still considers herself “dumb” from a traditional schooling standpoint, but for now I am happy that she thinks herself worthy in some other ways in the big picture of life. Once we are able to complete a more thorough evaluation of her to understand her strengths and challenges, I think I might have more information to guide her with regard to schooling.
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Very interesting bzylzy. I Would not have thought about the behind the scenes stuffs ...
Thanx
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With all due respect to the traditional educational system, and doctors and mental health professionals that support it, I've come to the conclusion that a long-term “deluge” of feedback from conventional people can be deeply oppressive to a child who does not think or learn in a standard way. It’s my opinion that as a parent I have to counter-balance all that, and demonstrate to my "out of the box" child that she has the possibility for a happy and productive place in the world. Somehow, one day at a time, we have to navigate the conventional to guide her to where she is supposed to be.
When my daughter was 5 years old, we were at a museum that was all about invention. The director happened to be wandering around and started watching my daughter. After a bit, he came over to me and said, “she’s one of us”. I was startled at the time but I eventually understood what he meant. She belongs to a world of unconventional thinking and possibilities. And it’s my job to prepare her for the world that she will fit into, not the world that might be comfortably conventional and standard. That preparation is not just the schooling but how she sees herself, that she understands how she can contribute, and what works for her and doesn’t.
Sounds easy in two paragraphs but is very hard in real life! But still worth trying.
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With all due respect to the traditional educational system, and doctors and mental health professionals that support it, I've come to the conclusion that a long-term “deluge” of feedback from conventional people can be deeply oppressive to a child who does not think or learn in a standard way. It’s my opinion that as a parent I have to counter-balance all that, and demonstrate to my "out of the box" child that she has the possibility for a happy and productive place in the world. Somehow, one day at a time, we have to navigate the conventional to guide her to where she is supposed to be.
When my daughter was 5 years old, we were at a museum that was all about invention. The director happened to be wandering around and started watching my daughter. After a bit, he came over to me and said, “she’s one of us”. I was startled at the time but I eventually understood what he meant. She belongs to a world of unconventional thinking and possibilities. And it’s my job to prepare her for the world that she will fit into, not the world that might be comfortably conventional and standard. That preparation is not just the schooling but how she sees herself, that she understands how she can contribute, and what works for her and doesn’t.
Sounds easy in two paragraphs but is very hard in real life! But still worth trying. What excellent insight and advice!
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... “she’s one of us”. I was startled at the time but I eventually understood what he meant. She belongs to a world of unconventional thinking and possibilities. And it’s my job to prepare her for the world that she will fit into, not the world that might be comfortably conventional and standard. That preparation is not just the schooling but how she sees herself, that she understands how she can contribute, and what works for her and doesn’t... wow. just wow. There are times when the wisdom you need at that particular moment just...arrives...so beautifully said that it takes your breath away. Thank you, bzylzy.
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Yes, pretty beautiful and encouraging words from bzyzly ... Thank you for that
nevertheless and alas, we do not have still find such a distance from what is happening in the real-day life for DS ...
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